maggielane
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posted on May 5, 2003 07:20:36 AM new
I purchased a small item on Ebay, and the seller claims that the USPS lost it. I asked for a refund but they say since I did not purchase insurance I can not get one.
I asked for a Delivery Confirmation Number and the seller has none. They have no Proof that the item has ever shipped. They say that we did not purchase DC, which My response to that is it costs nothing with Priority Mail why not use it?
I have shipped over 2000 packages in the past year with USPS and the only one that was lost was an international and that person moved when the package was in transit.
This person has several feedback complaints about packages being "Lost in the Mail".
I have put a complaint in with PayPal, I know that I will win this one, but should I give it up? Am I wrong since I did not purchase insurance?
Thanks Everyone!
"For I know the plans I have for you." says the Lord. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope." - Jeremiah 29:11
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 5, 2003 07:26:49 AM new
I'm always amused when an item that wasn't worth insuring in the beginning becomes the Holy Grail after it's lost.
--
"It has been my great privilege to be your mother. To you, my dear and faithful son, from earth to heaven I salute you..." Julie McPhillips at the funeral of Marine 1st Lt. Brian McPhillips, killed in Iraq.
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eauctionmgnt
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posted on May 5, 2003 07:29:15 AM new
maggielane,
It is entirely possible that the seller shipped your item and the USPS did lose it. Yes, it is entirely possible that you will be able to obtain your protection through Paypal. The seller did not follow the seller protection policy (no tracking number) so you've got a great case.
However... as to answer your question of "Is it wrong?" That's a tough one... personally... I refuse to accept Paypal because their time-frame of dispute resolution does not co-incide with the time-frame of my shipping carriers dispute resolution. Paypal requires problems to be reported before 30 days has expired. The USPS won't even begin a search for lost mail until 30 days has expired (a major conflict that I've always felt uncomfortable about!) The USPS does have a form 1510 that can be filed to help locate lost mail that is uninsured. This is the option I offer my bidders who choose not to accept insurance. My terms also state that bidders must request and pay for insurance, or the seller is not responsible for lost packages. If your seller has similar terms... that is the contract you agreed to when you bid on his item. Therefore... I would think it WOULD be wrong to pursue this in any means other than filing the form 1510. (not that you won't win through Paypal!) It's a moral decision that you have to make a decision on. You need to do what you feel is right. (Just my opinion on the matter!)
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Libra63
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posted on May 5, 2003 07:33:15 AM new
Yes I feel you are wrong. Read the TOS of your buyer if she doesn't guarantee delivery without insurance then your out. Many sellers do not know about free eDC and some sellers don't want to waste their time typing them out so if they don't say DC is free then your out there. The reason a seller says insurance is extra is for a reason like this. Even f I sell a small jewelry item I always include insurance in the S/H just for problems like this. I have never had a buyer ask for S/H without insurance.
How long ago did the buyer mail the package? I ordered an item that took 25 days to get to me so there still is some hope.
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neglus
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posted on May 5, 2003 07:42:58 AM new
I am one of the sellers that doesn't know about "free eDC"! Please fill me in...(can I use it when shipping craft envelopes or does it have to be a package?)
I should add that I have had 3 or 4 items lost in the mail during the past year ... I refunded the entire amount to the buyer. The packages eventually did turn up in all but one instance - after more than a month! So there is still hope!
[ edited by neglus on May 5, 2003 07:44 AM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on May 5, 2003 08:04:56 AM new
if the seller accepts paypal payment and wants to be protected from loss in mail,it is the seller responsibility to purchase DC,he/she should have the price of online trackable DC included in shipping and handling fee.
if you file complaint with paypal within 30 days ,you will get your money back.
//////////////
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stopwhining
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posted on May 5, 2003 08:08:17 AM new
usps DC is free if you print the usps priority mail label on usps site.it is also free if you use endicia.
i think some envelopes are too light to be swiped so dc does not apply.you should read all about this at usps website or check with your post office.
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maggielane
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posted on May 5, 2003 08:09:07 AM new
USPS Priority it is free by printing labels with the www.usps.com site. It is .13 for non-priority mail. It can not be used for packages uner .5" thick. I have put normal mail in Bubble Envelopes so I could use DC. This makes them .5" thick.
"For I know the plans I have for you." says the Lord. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope." - Jeremiah 29:11
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tomwiii
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posted on May 5, 2003 08:11:40 AM new
NO! You are NOT wrong!
If he accepts PayPal, then he accepts PayPal's TOS which requires PROOF of shipping!
At a certain point, everything is silliness! WHAT? Can sellers say: "Hey! If you don't buy $1.30 INS for your $5 item, I'll just NOT ship anything & run with the MOOLA?"
Considering the fact that DC costs either NOTHING for PRIORITY or $0.13 for PACKAGE SERVICES, it is clearly every seller's responsibility to be able to PROVE shipping at the very least!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 5, 2003 08:12:12 AM new
Not having done a formal study, I would guesstimate 2% of our packages are lost in the mail. It's not always our fault; I am careful to double-check addresses and of course Address Standardization helps there.
If the OP gave the seller a bad address or one that was hard to read, no, I don't think she *should* get her money back. There's a package out there on its way back to me because the ditzy buyer "assumed" it would arrive before her cross-country move! Would have been nice to have been TOLD about that, Blondie!
I wouldn't have believed it before I got into the world of eBay selling, but there are people out there who don't know their own addresses. Incredible.
--
California voters: Be a part of the first-ever successful gubernatorial recall! Defy media pundits! $21 million of our money is going down the tubes daily because of our incompetent corrupt governor. Visit http://www.recallgraydavis.com to download your recall petition.
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neglus
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posted on May 5, 2003 09:32:37 AM new
I did email PP about the impracticality of providing DC on low ticket/low weight items such as postcards and they seemed to agree...they said sometimes it does not make sense to obtain DC...i guess i am basically self insuring...which is another reason my s/h is above the actual cost of materials and postage!
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tomwiii
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posted on May 5, 2003 09:47:05 AM new
neglus: DC is available for FIRST CLASS MAIL!
One has to use either a BOX, or an envelope which has a minimum PACKED thickness of 3/4"
Easy to do with a pieci of small bubble-wrap! I do it all the time!
The price is:
ELECTRONIC: $0.13 /or/
RETAIL: $0.55
I use ENDICIA, but you could alternatively use the PO's MAILING SOFTWARE.
13 pennies seems a nice small price! 
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
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wgm
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posted on May 5, 2003 11:24:17 AM new
"USPS Priority it is free by printing labels with the www.usps.com site. It is .13 for non-priority mail. It can not be used for packages uner .5" thick. I have put normal mail in Bubble Envelopes so I could use DC. This makes them .5" thick."
Not true. I use DC on all my auctions, including every single piece of First Class Mail and have NEVER had one refused for being under 5".
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
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tomwiii
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posted on May 5, 2003 12:01:43 PM new
wgm: you are CORRECT-O-MUNDO!
From the USPS:
"First-Class Mail® Parcels - Send small packages inexpensively with First-Class Mail. Items may weigh 13 oz. or less and must be at least3/4” thick to be considered a parcel."
OR, one can BOX the item
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
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marcn
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posted on May 5, 2003 12:13:20 PM new
It does not matter if the package was insured or not. The seller is still responsible. Insurance is to protect the shipper, not the buyer.
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neglus
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posted on May 5, 2003 12:52:01 PM new
IM CONFUSED! I don't think that my mailers would qualify for DC...
I have my mailers down to a scientific weight of 1oz on the nose they are about 1/4" - or less - thick...no room for bubble wrap (have to use 4 5/8x6 3/4 mailers) and i save $.23/mailing....since I have only had to pay out once in the last year in 3000+ transactions I think I'm ahead to self insure as long as PayPal doesn't pull my plug!
But what a deal Endicia is! If I ever move beyond the post card biz I will sign up for sure!
THanks!
Mary Ann
[ edited by neglus on May 5, 2003 12:55 PM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on May 5, 2003 12:53:03 PM new
not on ebay,since sellers work on such a slim margin,shipping does not cover insurance unless the buyer pays for it.
now online trackable dc is for the seller if he wants paypal seller protection/
with some catalog houses which sell low ticket items,they ask if you want insurance,which means if it is lost or stolen,they are not responsible if you decline insurance.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 5, 2003 12:58:12 PM new
wgm: Careful. It can and most likely will happen that your flat First Class pieces will run into a postal worker who actually knows the thickness rule. When that happens, you are charged $3.85 Priority Mail. Happened to me. I talked to the station manager and he said it was standard policy.
--
California voters: Be a part of the first-ever successful gubernatorial recall! Defy media pundits! $21 million of our money is going down the tubes daily because of our incompetent corrupt governor. Visit http://www.recallgraydavis.com to download your recall petition.
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wgm
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posted on May 5, 2003 01:17:49 PM new
fluffy - you are right (and I hate it happened to you). I need to learn to quit flying by the seat of my pants LOL
edited because I didn't have my glasses on! All this time I thought .5" was 5"!!!
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
[ edited by wgm on May 5, 2003 01:20 PM ]
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sanmar
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posted on May 5, 2003 02:53:45 PM new
I am amazed of the number of complaints I read about regarding "Lost in the Mail" In 5 yrs & several thousand parcels shipped, I have never had one lost in the mail. I never use DC, but I type all of my labels so the address is is very clear. If I ship by Priority Mail, & the item is over $10.00, I give the buyer no choice. They have to pay for insurance, unless I ship by FedEx & then the insurance is included up to $100.00.
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sapington
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posted on May 5, 2003 04:13:07 PM new
I am amazed of the number of complaints I read about regarding "Lost in the Mail" In 5 yrs & several thousand parcels shipped, I have never had one lost in the mail. I never use DC, but I type all of my labels so the address is is very clear. If I ship by Priority Mail, & the item is over $10.00, I give the buyer no choice. They have to pay for insurance, unless I ship by FedEx & then the insurance is included up to $100.00.
Sanmar,
What you just said is that you paid $3900 for absolutely NOTHING.(assuming 3000 packages under $50)
If you ship that much and don't give the buyer a choice, why bother buying insurance? You could now afford to lose almost $4000 in mechandise and still be ahead.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 5, 2003 05:20:10 PM new
sapington: Yep, the prime argument for self-insurance.
I love self-insurance. Every time someone pays me for insurance, I drop a dollar into Fluffy's Vacation Fund.
--
California voters: Be a part of the first-ever successful gubernatorial recall! Defy media pundits! $21 million of our money is going down the tubes daily because of our incompetent corrupt governor. Visit http://www.recallgraydavis.com to download your recall petition.
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sanmar
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posted on May 5, 2003 06:42:00 PM new
sapington: you do it your way & I will do it my way. I have never had a complaint, so what is your point?? I don't keep any of the charges, everything is is insured. I haven't made a dime off these charges. It sounds like are inferring that I am pocketing the insurance charges.
[ edited by sanmar on May 5, 2003 06:45 PM ]
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marcn
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posted on May 5, 2003 07:09:30 PM new
Fluffy:
I'm with you on the insurance!
Marc
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ahc3
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posted on May 5, 2003 07:31:53 PM new
This is how I look at it - As a buyer, on a small item (say under $100) if I pay with paypal, I will not get insurance unless it is something that I fear will actually get damaged in transit, like electronics. In all my buying on ebay, 2 packages never got to me. On one of them (sent uninsured) the seller quickly sent another. The other package required a lot of threats from me, but the seller eventually refunded (that was insured) - Why NOT use paypal's buyer protection policy. It is up to the seller to send something that can be tracked, and at prices ranging from free to 13 cents, it makes no sense why they do not use it. I would certainly ask paypal to be reimbursed.
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fetish128
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posted on May 5, 2003 07:34:38 PM new
I just today sent a 1st class parcel,,,it, the box, measured 7 x 4 x 6,,,,it was a plastic, kids cop Badge, waaaaaaaay under one pound, D.c., they took it NO problem. $1.38....weight!!!!! is the factor, Not size.
Whhhhhhiiiip It! Snnnnaaaap IT! Snap! snap! snap! ooooo!
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neglus
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posted on May 5, 2003 08:47:24 PM new
Today I went to the PO with a postcard in a bubble mailer...wanted to insure it because it sold for $50 (I've done this many times before)....no dice! suddenly they require that the package be 3/4" thick for insurance!!!!
"OK" i say "lets send it DC"...she looks up the reg and no dice! package has to be 3/4" thick for DC too..package weighed more than an oz but less than 2 oz...wanted to get it out today so just sent it first class..
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ahc3
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posted on May 5, 2003 08:52:29 PM new
She is right about the thickness needing to be 3/4" but is WRONG about insurance, you can insure a #6 envelope if you want. There is NO requirement for thickness of package to insure that I am aware of.
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neglus
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posted on May 5, 2003 08:55:23 PM new
She showed me the "reg" on her monitor .... it did say 3/4" thick....weird because i have been insuring those same packages all year from the same post office and never made a claim! Maybe it's something new?
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sapington
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posted on May 5, 2003 09:58:26 PM new
sapington: you do it your way & I will do it my way. I have never had a complaint, so what is your point?? I don't keep any of the charges, everything is is insured. I haven't made a dime off these charges. It sounds like are inferring that I am pocketing the insurance charges.
No, I didn't saying that you were pocketing the insurance charge, I was saying that if you had, you would now have it for yourself.
I can see paying for insurance if you have a lot of problems of maybe for an occasional or real expensive shipment.
I just had someone pay an extra $1.30 for insurance on an item that went fot $1. It would be stupid to give the $1.30 to the post office, then if it did happen to get lost then I could file a claim and get $1 back. Assuming the item did get lost I would only have to pay $.30 for all the trouble of filing the claim instead of being ahead $.30 and not having to do anything.
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