posted on May 31, 2003 07:01:05 AM new
I have a vase that I, along with others, am having a hard time authenticating. The mark suggests that it is 18th century Qing Dynasty Yongzheng (1723-1735). Anyone have any idea how I know for sure? The white has a grayish blue tint. It is definately not transfer painted. Stands 8-1/2" tall and is quite heavy. Toward the bottom where the vase rounds it is ripply to the touch.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on May 31, 2003 07:05 AM ]
posted on May 31, 2003 08:27:46 AM new
the characters are chinese and it said qing dynasty such and such emperor,this emperor is the father of chien lung emperor.
this is most probably a modern day rerproduction,the chinese have been shamelessly producing reproduction in the thousands and stamping qing dynasty,the last dynasty of china before it turned republic.
see if they dated it earlier say han or chou,no one would believe them,no one believe them anyway when they stamp qing dynasty as there are zillions of them out there and they all look new aka made yesterday.
posted on May 31, 2003 09:17:40 AM new
stopwhining
I thought it might be new also, but from what I have learned from an orientalist frien of mine I know is that the blue is too right and the color of the white is too right for it to be new. If that makes any sense. The marks at the bottom are not stamped, but are handwritten. The designed is done by hand, too. I have one of the modern copies and there is no comparison. The blue on this vase is much deeper and irregular. The other blue is more cobalt and very regular with tiny dots when looking through a loop. The white is too white on the newer one also. Where the confusion comes in is that double circle that should be around the marks. I have a reference book that says the double circle was not always there and most repros were made with 4 marks not the 6. I've gotten many different opinions making this a very confusing thing. Could be 19th century. Who knows. I was hoping someone out there recognized the pattern.
Reads left to right up to down: Great, Yong (Yung), then the year (between 1723-1735), Qing, Made, zheng (cheng): Made in in the great Yongzheng Dynasty between 1723-1735 more or less. Not exactly how it would be worded but close enough. I believe the date to read 1734? I have a difficult time with Chinese dates. Does anyone out there know?
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on May 31, 2003 09:26 AM ]
posted on May 31, 2003 09:46:35 AM new
the chinese will fake it exactly as the orginal one ,words and color and seals and stamps.
they have plenty of time !
a TL test will be one way to find out.but it is not always accurate as soetheby finds out with african terra cotta pottery.
the african will make the new terra cotta pottery embedding some ancient shards they found in the area.
usually TL tester will try not to destroy the item ,so they will nick a small piece from the underbelly or hindleg of the item.
if that happens to be from the ancient shard,it passes and go on auction block for a lot of money.
christie and soetheby have orientalia dept and you can send them a picture and ask for their opinion.
posted on June 1, 2003 12:54:19 AM new
There is no 100% accurate way to authenticate. The best bet is to have an expert examine it. There are many tests, including TL testing that can identify fakes but none that can authenticate without a shadow of a doubt. An expert will know what to look for for.
Check out www.gotheborg.com for an excellent on-line resource.
By the way, stopwhining, there IS a difference between a reproduction, a fake and a forgery.
A forgery was produced from the beginning with intent to deceive.
A reproduction is a copy meant to imitate and sold as just that.
A fake is a reproduction that that is being passed of as an original.
Fakes are usually easy to identify since no effort was made to deceive in its creation. Forgeries are more difficult as the producer has made an effort to copy imperfections and possible telltale signs that would appear with age such as bacteria or such.
And by the way, designs have been copied for centuries. A copy of a 17th century design could itself be antique.
