posted on June 23, 2003 04:39:21 AM new
Is this legal ... item 3614429248. Check out his other items also. In my opinion, this is disgusting. Do these items fall within ebay's guidelines?
posted on June 23, 2003 05:03:05 AM new
Yes, this is disgusting. I don't know all the rules, but I don't think he is supposed to send these out of state. Could be wrong, though. A friend once wanted me to sell a purse for her that was a real Leopard's head. Not a chance in you-know-where would I sell that. Unfortunately, I don't think the elephant is on the endangered species list. Both the African and Asian elephants are on the endangered species list. There is a $5,000 fine attached to the selling of items from animals on the list. IMO He should be reported to the authorities.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 23, 2003 08:31:23 AM new
Doesn't depend on the age of the item? Just like Ivory, there was a time when these were not forbidden and you can hardly arrest or fine someone for selling an item that was perfectly legal (ieven if it is in questionable taste) when it was created.
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
[ edited by neonmania on Jun 23, 2003 08:31 AM ]
posted on June 23, 2003 10:09:16 AM new
Disgusting it may be, but the seller seems to know what s/he's doing and has the appropriate licenses and permits.
posted on June 23, 2003 11:28:37 AM new
No matter the age of the animal part it cannot be sold if it is on the endangered species list - especially cannot be transported over state lines (check your state laws as some differ).
Under the Endangered Species Act, the African elephant is listed as a threatened species and the Asian elephant is listed as an endangered species. "Endangered" means a species is considered in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its range, and "threatened" means a species is considered in danger of becoming endangered. This protection prohibits elephant parts and products from being imported into the United States except under certain conditions.
In addition, elephants are protected under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), an agreement among more than 120 nations to eliminate illegal trade in animals and plants, such as elephants, and their parts and associated products. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is the federal agency responsible for the U.S. government's compliance with the CITES treaty.
The African Elephant Conservation Act of 1988 prohibits the import of raw or worked ivory into the U.S., with certain exceptions. It also set up a grant program to fund elephant conservation efforts.
In June 1989, the U.S. government imposed a ban on commercial importation of African elephant ivory into the country. This led to a commercial ivory trade ban being adopted by all CITES member nations later in 1989.
There is a hefty fine involved and jail time. I hope that they do indeed know what they are doing.
Deserves better than to have his feet made into trash cans!
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Jun 23, 2003 11:30 AM ]
posted on June 23, 2003 11:55:19 AM new
He may have the proper permit (though it seems strange that someone who has the permit would mispell its name) But I think eBay's policy does not permit any exemptions for permitted sellers:
"Endangered or protected species, or any part of any endangered or protected species may not be listed on eBay."
posted on June 23, 2003 12:22:28 PM new
He also has a footstool and table up for auction so with the other one we were talking about----that makes three feet so what happened to the fourth? I think his auctions are gross.
My kids saw a mounted deer head at a yard sale one time and they wanted me to buy it so we could take it home and bury it.
I don't really know the Ebay guidelines- I think they change at will- but are we 100% sure this is a legal option or does Ebay need to be informed about this.
posted on June 23, 2003 01:23:11 PM new
I agree with you, Tomwiii! Let's all go out and git ourselfs a hunter. I do believe a good number of his auctions are violating ebay's rules. If ebay doesn't shut them down - SHAME ON YOU EBAY!
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 23, 2003 01:45:29 PM new
What a crock of crapola. He has the city permits???? What City permits would that be? LOL. This is fedral law and he IS in violation of it and it matters not if this from 1000 years ago. Jail time just for being in posession of it. Yes I agree that he seems to know exactly what he is doing, digging his own grave.
SSSSSSSnap! Crackle and Pop!
posted on June 23, 2003 02:16:08 PM new
This guy's a powerseller and has been doing this for a long time. As far as I can tell, this is the first time he has dared go this far. Let's see how long ebay lets him get away with it.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 23, 2003 05:30:36 PM new
Yes there is a law governing the sale of items of this kind.
Also, I had seen -Taxidermy Birds listed for auction on Ebay and I had one which I didn't know the name of or how rare it was. So I listed it for 9.99 because I had it for so many years and figured its time to sell it but I didn't know that it was a very Rare
Woodpecker................until ebay took my auction off two days later.............AND..........the next morning bright and early there were two men at my door from the "Department of the interior U.S Fish and Wildlife Service Division of Law Enforcement.............they said do you have the bird here?.........I said yes, why, they said "They are here to take the bird because not only are you not allowed to sell it, or not even allowed to own it..........
Well, of course I turned over the bird to them ....but they realized from checking my auctions that I sell lots of different things so they knew I didn't know I was doing wrong............but they also said that the people that placed bids on the bird are just as much in trouble as I would have been if I didnt turn over the bird.
They suggested this site.......www.findlaw.com...............if you dont know if your allowed to sell something of this nature this site will help.
Wow, you sure were lucky to get out of that one. I hear some of these guys can be quite rough when handing down the punishment. My understanding is that the fine can be as much as $100,000 plus time in prison. And rightly so. While you were clearly unaware, I don't think this person would be able to claim that. He's sold too many of these types of things.
He SHOULD have someone knocking at his door. I say remove his feet; turn them into table lamp bases! I wonder just who in Africa shares in his profits. Shame, shame, shame
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 23, 2003 06:07:17 PM newEverything I sell is Authentic. All of the skin, horns, tusks, and egg items are tanned or professionally treated. They are of the highest quality. The charm of these items is that they are from a wild animal that has been culled due to their over-abundance. The culling of this animal helps to ensure the preservation of the species.
An excerpt from his auction. I especially think the line that all his things are from wild animals that have been "culled" due to their over-abundance is nothing short of absurb! So if we "cull" an endangered species, we ensure their preservation? Elephants, being on the endangered species list are hardly culled due to over-abundance. They are killed for their tusks. The same with Rhinos.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Jun 23, 2003 06:07 PM ]
posted on June 23, 2003 06:48:31 PM new
tonimar1: By any chance was the woodpecker the rare white-headed one? There's one in our mountains (So. Calif.) that is spotted every now and then. Very very rare. Just curious.
posted on June 23, 2003 06:55:19 PM new
Certainly, one can only HOPE that Dumbo's Daddy is dead! Dreadful nightmare if he be stumping around on all-3's! Sure as shoot that make HIM "weak-kneed"!
But ye logic is as solid as: "Twas necessary to destroy that village in order to save it!"
Or, my favorite quote from Prez Snoozey: "If ya seen one redwood, you've seen them ALL!"
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
posted on June 23, 2003 07:21:40 PM newBut poverty, not wealthy hunters, became the elephant’s greatest enemy. Even as elephant habitat was being lost to population growth, residents of poor African countries learned that they could earn money selling elephant parts to tourists. Shoes, handbags, and wallets were made from elephant leather. Elephant feet were transformed into bar stools, lamp bases, and waste baskets.
I thought elephant parts that were brought into this country before a certain date were legal to resell within the country. But I could be very wrong. So I'm interested if this is legal or not.
And yes, it's truly sad what has happened to the elephants.
posted on June 23, 2003 07:48:14 PM new
Roadsmith..........it was called a northern flicker woodpecker and they are found in lots of areas and even on my street they can be seen at time but they are considereed endangered...............and according to the wildlife agency most birds are considered endangered species...........except the sparo......
The woodpecker that I had was stuffed in the 1920's and if I had documentation stating that it was done back then it still would have to be reviewed by the department of wild life.
Like you have said..........CBlev65252
I was very lucky and happy to turn over the woodpecker to them, but I can tell you i was also shocked when they woke me up and I hear them telling me why they came .......I said to them can you come back in 5 mins I just need to dress because I just got out of bed............and all they could say was.........is the bird Here, we have come for the bird............I said, yes the bird
is here. The strange thing is you hear stories like this but wow, when its you telling it ........it just dont seem real.........The men said that now that there is Ebay there job is easer. They told me also that they checked ebay and they saw my listing .......they were the ones who contacted Ebay to end the auction.
They also said Before they come to me they
checked out all my auctions for the past 3 months so they would get a better understanding of what they might expect.
posted on June 23, 2003 11:02:03 PM new
What if there were an overabundance of Powersellers and we needed to "cull" the herd? Would this Powerseller like to donate a foot or two? Yuck, this guy is sick! Anybody notify Ebay yet?
posted on June 24, 2003 03:37:24 AM newI thought elephant parts that were brought into this country before a certain date were legal to resell within the country. But I could be very wrong. So I'm interested if this is legal or not.
Not so. This is illegal to possess, illegal to sell and illegal to buy. This violates Federal, some State and International laws. I don't know how this made it past customs. I am guessing that this was an African elephant due to the other items he has from Africa.
These stats should worry you:
There may have been at least 3-5 million elephants in Africa in the early part of the Twentieth Century. . .numbers today are estimated at less than 500,000
Under the Endangered Species Act, the African elephant is listed as a threatened species and the Asian elephant is listed as an endangered species. "Endangered" means a species is considered in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its range, and "threatened" means a species is considered in danger of becoming endangered. This protection prohibits elephant parts and products from being imported into the United States
In addition, elephants are protected under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), an agreement among more than 120 nations to eliminate illegal trade in animals and plants, such as elephants, and their parts and associated products. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is the federal agency responsible for the U.S. government's compliance with the CITES treaty.
twelve
The elephant is DEAD and you don't know how long it has been DEAD....
How did the elephant die? Pochers most likely. It doesn't matter how long it's been dead. From the looks of the items (3 now, wonder what happened to the 4th leg), these items are not old. Each and every creature on this planet has a right to be here and has a purpose for being here. There is a natural law. This violates that law.
Anybody notify Ebay yet?
From the sounds of it on this thread, several have. Let's see how long it takes ebay to act. Or, will it take the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to do it for them, I wonder.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Jun 24, 2003 03:40 AM ]
posted on June 24, 2003 05:40:10 AM newThere is a natural law.
Sorry to burst your bubble there Cheryl, but "natural law" also includes extinction has happend to many species before "we" were blamed for it, by protecting these species, "we" maybe the ones screwing up evolution and "natural law".
posted on June 24, 2003 07:16:04 AM new
"natural law" also includes one species displacing another through predation or competing for food sources.
You can't have 4 billion people on the planet with even more in the offing and expect all the other species on the planet not to be effected.
Whether the animal is killed for food, sport, or killed because it is a competitor for food and space makes no difference.
The only person that can complain about endangered species consumes nothing, produces no wastes, and has no children. I haven't met this person yet.
If you really want African animals to thrive, stop buying anything that is produced in Africa, and stop sending AIDS drugs, food, and vaccinations/medicine there.
In effect, de-populate the continent. Do the same for South America, and any other continent.
However, as genetic research progresses, the concept of endangered species will be redefined only to mean that there is insufficient DNA samples of the species.
We should no more expect Africans or South Americans to abandon their land to the animals than we expect ourselves to do the same. Turn the great plains back over to the buffalo, the south to the gators and otters, etc.
And while we're at it, tear down the cities and re-forest them.
posted on June 24, 2003 07:23:44 AM new
Sorry Twelve...
Mankind has screwed things up to the point where nothing will ever again "progress naturally". I would love to see how things would have progressed under "natural law"...that's just one of the beauties of nature....if left alone it will take care of itself.
We are way past the point of no return all we can do now is try to help. Whether wiped out by hunting, illegal poaching or destruction of natural habitat, these extinctions are all mankind induced. Yes, there are desperately poor people in other countries who do have to resort to ALL KINDS OF ACTS to earn money...here in AMERICA we have more of a choice about it. Making money by exploiting animals ( domesticated or wild) is pure GREED. They might as well be drug dealers...it's a brainless operation. It's sickening to me...and it is against ebay guidelines. It says no products made from endangered or PROTECTED species..
REAMOND... sad but true what you say about de-population.
[ edited by inot on Jun 24, 2003 07:28 AM ]
posted on June 24, 2003 07:42:58 AM newWe Americans have already totally exploited our continent's wild animals and natural resources, and I find it hypocritial to demand that Africa and South America do otherwise.
We have no right to tell South Americans not to clear cut the rain forest after we clear cut our own continent.
We have no right to tell Africans not to kill elephants or rhinos after we reduced buffalo to nearly nothing, and they exist now as basically domesticated animals. Not to mention all the other species that we have displaced and/or greatly reduced in number.
But you aint seen nothing yet Just wait until China's economy gets into high gear. The pollution and specie degradation in the Asian region will be huge.
Imagine 750 million chinese driving cars (Ford, General Motors, Toyota and Honda do), and the chinese people producing and consuming like the other industrialized countries. It is an environmental disaster in the making.
I do believe a good number of his auctions are violating ebay's rules. If ebay doesn't shut them down - SHAME ON YOU EBAY!
