TheFamilyBiz
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posted on July 3, 2003 07:10:30 PM new
Would you call these things "Butter Pats?" I understand they may be German, but there are no markings on the back whatsoever....
We have 6 of them, but one has heavy crazing and is stained.
Guide me oh wise ones..... Please.
Where would you look for info on them? Have you ever seen them before? They're just 3 inches in diameter.
Thanks again - in advance.
Wayne
Trying to Make a Difference - One Satisfied Customer at a Time....
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on July 3, 2003 10:44:18 PM new
Any help from those who know German porcelain?
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cta
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posted on July 4, 2003 07:04:14 AM new
Happy 4th of July Wayne,
You have a set of beautiful FLOW BLUE butter pats accented with gold floral garlands.
I recently had a set of 4 exactly like these but mine were severly crazed, one had a hairline and they had darkened quite a bit from use, and I still got around $25 for the set. I thought perhaps they were English made.
Good Luck!
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on July 4, 2003 07:46:54 AM new
Thanks, cta... I did want to confirm that calling them "Butter Pats" was the right thing...
These have some crazing - only one with severe crazing and staining... and we paid just $5 for the 6 of them.
I'll cross my fingers when we list them.
Thanks for the assistance.
Wayne
Trying to Make a Difference - One Satisfied Customer at a Time....
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AuctionAce
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posted on July 4, 2003 09:38:24 AM new
I love it when he gets impatient for some help in these threads. 
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Sargent Stadanko
Senior Investigating Officer, Internet Fraud Unit, International Web Police.
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on July 4, 2003 10:09:53 AM new
AA - Who is impatient? I thanked cta for his help. If you interpret the thanks as impatience, you're mistaken.
Didn't mean anything to sound like that.
Trying to Make a Difference - One Satisfied Customer at a Time....
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AuctionAce
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posted on July 4, 2003 10:25:22 AM new
Request posted at 10:30 and second request posted at 10:44 and not just in this thread. You may be confusing this board with a Live board like those at ebay.
There's nothing wrong with it but the impatience part is a tad funny to witness.
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Sargent Stadanko
Senior Investigating Officer, Internet Fraud Unit, International Web Police.
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sanmar
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posted on July 4, 2003 10:32:09 AM new
If the staining is not severe, you can get rid of it by soaking the dish in a 50-50 soution of laundry bleach & water. Usually 15 minutes will do it although it may take a little longer.
[ edited by sanmar on Jul 4, 2003 10:32 AM ]
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on July 4, 2003 10:53:52 AM new
Sgt. Stadanko - Only reason for the posting at 10:44 was to bump it higher since there were a number of postings that pushed it way down.... Please don't ever view that as impatience. I understand that it's not a live board -- and anyone who can tolerate the eBay board gets their own star.
I'd rather have the format of this board there than having to refresh things regularly and trying to determine if someone is responding to you or someone else... it's not easy, that's for sure.
Sanmar - thanks for the suggestion. It's soaking now as a matter of fact. Here's the back image:
[ edited by TheFamilyBiz on Jul 4, 2003 11:08 AM ]
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lurkyloo
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posted on July 4, 2003 10:54:22 AM new
AuctionAce
First post at 7:10:30 p.m., second post at 10:44:18 p.m., a difference of more than 3-1/2 hours. The East Coast people might have gone beddy-bye, but those are prime evening hours for people on the West Coast (unless they were all busy listing auctions!).
Not lurkyloo on eBay
(edited for grammar)
[ edited by lurkyloo on Jul 4, 2003 11:27 AM ]
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on July 4, 2003 11:08:06 AM new
Thanks for the defense, Lurky...
Didn't think I was getting that impatient and thought I had posted other things in the meantime, too.
I appreciate your July 4th kindness.
Wayne
Trying to Make a Difference - One Satisfied Customer at a Time....
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lurkyloo
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posted on July 4, 2003 11:30:16 AM new
You're welcome, Wayne!
I agree with others--you certainly have an eye for nice things. Good luck with your auctions!
Not lurkyloo on eBay
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kiara
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posted on July 4, 2003 11:47:15 AM new
NO! Never soak porcelain or china in laundry bleach. You may ruin it forever.
http://www.lapada.co.uk/care/ceramics.html
Some stains on porcelain can be removed by applying cotton wool swabs soaked in a solution of 20-volume hydrogen peroxide and a few drops of ammonia.
Never be tempted to soak stained pieces in household bleach as this may give a good result initially but will eventually lead to yellowing; Calgon, however, is safe for soaking appropriate pieces.
I know this because years ago I soaked a plate and it eventually turned yellow in all the crazing and looked terrible. Even a paste of baking soda and water will whiten nicely. Don't use household bleach though.
[ edited by kiara on Jul 4, 2003 11:49 AM ]
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on July 4, 2003 11:54:21 AM new
Whoooo -- That was close!
My wife was headed to get it into that solution and when this came in, she was JUST about to put it into that bleach bath!
You're a life-saver, Kiara!
Wayne
Trying to Make a Difference - One Satisfied Customer at a Time....
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kiara
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posted on July 5, 2003 08:57:51 AM new
posted on July 4, 2003 10:53:52 AM
Sanmar - thanks for the suggestion. It's soaking now as a matter of fact.
posted on July 4, 2003 11:54:21 AM
Whoooo -- That was close!
My wife was headed to get it into that solution and when this came in, she was JUST about to put it into that bleach bath!
First you post and say it's soaking in bleach as you are posting and then an hour later when I post the reasons why not to do it, suddenly it hasn't been done.
I wonder how many sellers do this and then unsuspecting buyers get damaged goods? Sanmar deals full time in porcelain, he should know better than to advise bleach. It could damage the gold on these also.
For everyone, my advise is to leave things 'as is' if you are unsure about cleaning. But make sure to mention it in the description. And buyers beware, you don't know what inexperienced sellers are doing to the goods before you acquire them.
[ edited by kiara on Jul 5, 2003 09:02 AM ]
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on July 5, 2003 09:03:55 AM new
kiara is quick; she got to it before I had a chance.
Bleach is bad. Sorry, sanmar. It may get the stains out but in addition to damaging the piece, the bleach may start leaching back out of the glaze days or weeks later.
When I go through the antique mall I can tell when pottery has been bleached because it has a white fuzz on it.
I use hydrogen peroxide on a Q-tip for small stains.
I am not a bathtub full of brightly-colored machine tools on Vendio.
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rarriffle
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posted on July 5, 2003 09:04:21 AM new
i'm with kiara all the way on this.
mention any defects in the description and let the collector/bidder deal with any cleaning or soaking.
a true collector has researched the best way to take care of their items and if something goes wrong they will live with the consequences of their own actions.
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kasue
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posted on July 5, 2003 07:05:26 PM new
I'm with sanmar. With the exception that I have learned never to bleach anything with gold on it. I have been experimenting with different ways to remove stains in china materials for about 17 years now. And that is the key word, "experimenting". There is no absolute rule on bleaching or peroxiding or use of soda. If the use of peroxide or soda doesn't work, and you aren't risking much, I say "bleach". My rule of thumb is put it in a bucket of bleach and water when you go to bed. When you get up, pull it out and rinse it thoroughly. If it isn't out in this length of time, it most likely is permanent. Learn to live with it or sell it as stained. I used to have things "fuzz", but not since I have limited the amount of time I let it soak. I have bleached plenty of my own things and have never had them yellow or fuzz in later years when I have soaked them no more than 8 - 12 hours. I read lots of "cures" for sick glass and stained china and have to groan. Many times they sound logical but don't work a bit.
Also, Wayne, according to Mary Gaston's second book on Flow Blue. Your butter pats are American made in Ohio in the early 1900s. The company is "Sterling China". No pattern name was given.
I come to Vendio all the time for help. I think the Ebay boards are difficult to use. I hope when I give advice, I don't sound like I am lecturing. It makes people hesitate to post again. I noticed on one thread there were comments about people being too lazy to use Google to find out an answer. Why not answer the question nicely if you know it, and if you don't, just post a link to Google.
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sparkz
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posted on July 5, 2003 07:28:41 PM new
Wayne...It sounds like Kasue did her homework on this one. If it is indeed Sterling, you may want to consider listing in two categories, one of which will be the restaurantware category. Most of the Sterling collectors can be found there.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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TheFamilyBiz
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posted on July 5, 2003 07:38:36 PM new
Thanks everyone. You guys are the best and have restored my faith in people. I said before my skin was thin - and it always helps to hear an encouraging word.
Thanks Kasue and Sparks for your suggestions on the maker and listing. I owe you one...
Restaurantware, huh?
Wayne
Trying to Make a Difference - One Satisfied Customer at a Time....
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cta
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posted on July 5, 2003 09:57:40 PM new
*** Kasue said, "I come to Vendio all the time for help. I think the Ebay boards are difficult to use. I hope when I give advice, I don't sound like I am lecturing. It makes people hesitate to post again. I noticed on one thread there were comments about people being too lazy to use Google to find out an answer. Why not answer the question nicely if you know it, and if you don't, just post a link to Google." ***
Thanks Kasue for not lecturing and giving solid advice. I think you were referring to a question I had asked where it was said that some of us may be lazy if we didn't think to look on Google. We appreciate folks like you who simply answer our questions...dumb as we may sound at times, and not make us feel as though we're being dimwitted or lazy simply for asking.
[ edited by cta on Jul 5, 2003 09:59 PM ]
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neglus
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posted on July 5, 2003 10:26:51 PM new
I agree..the eBay boards are impossible to use...so much nicer here! Hey! maybe they should have a VENDIO-Live...
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on July 6, 2003 05:53:20 AM new
Yep. I've seen it before, over and over.
People want answers. Then they want to complain about the manner in which the answers are given.
Wayne, if you are so thin-skinned, I imagine you would want to avoid public forums since anyone can speak their mind here and many do.
But you'll be back tomorrow and the day after, still wanting us to appraise your stuff for you. Or are you trying to drum up customers?
I am not a bathtub full of brightly-colored machine tools on Vendio.
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kasue
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posted on July 6, 2003 08:05:29 AM new
fluffy, there is a simple solution. When you see TheFamilyBiz has created a thread, don't read that one! Unless you enjoy being rude. And that isn't the case, is it? :>O
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kiara
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posted on July 6, 2003 08:26:49 AM new
Years ago a couple of ladies that posted here knew quite a bit about collecting porcelain. I remember one that advised never to use household bleach and I think she said that her friend worked in restoration of porcelain items in a museum.
The danger of using household bleach opposed to peroxide is that the bleach has salts in it that eat under the glaze and can eventually lift it and it can also damage the dyes used in the colors. It can also weaken the items.
The pieces that Wayne shows have gold on them so I don't think it's wise to soak the pieces. Then again, I don't think peroxide works as well on restaurantware so perhaps bleach may clean them better.
Yes, if you have experience and know what you are doing all is fine. I just have visions of lurkers dipping fine pieces in buckets of bleach because others say it is okay.
And as far as saying things here, I will say again that many seem to read certain tones and attitudes into everything. So the writer is forced to pepper their comments with lots of smilies so others don't think they are being superior or rude. But then again the smilies may look like the writer is being sarcastic so it doesn't work either way.
So a couple of years ago I just gave up and post what's on my mind and people can read it and draw their own conclusions. In real life I'm mostly nice, but maybe I don't write that way but I don't tiptoe around trying to decide whether it will hurt someone's feelings.
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Libra63
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posted on July 6, 2003 08:40:14 AM new
kiara I agree with you. We all have different mannerisms in the way we type and talk. Many are direct and to the point and others are a little more sing songie. (Iknow not a word but sounds good) If people take offense as to the way we post it is the way we learn. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. I have taken critisizm and never gave it another thought. I came back to post again. We all cannot know about everyting and this board is a learning place, not just a place to come in and talk. If they want to do that go to the round table. Yuk.
[ edited by Libra63 on Jul 6, 2003 08:42 AM ]
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kasue
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posted on July 6, 2003 08:40:38 AM new
I don't think he should soak these either since they have the gold trim. But they aren't restaurantware. These are much earlier than that. Sterling must have gotten into the business of restaurant dishes later on in their history. The flow blue book I mentioned didn't get into that. I think he will get about $10 - 12 each on Ebay. Locally at shows I get more like $15 -20 each.
I agree that you can sound much different in print than you intended. Sometimes there is no other way you can take what has been posted though.
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