I sold an antique book last month for a substantial amount. The buyer paid a few days later via paypal. I promptly mailed it out, including insurane and DC.
About two weeks later I get an email from the buyer, saying that they were not happy with the book, because a few pages were missing, and would like a substantial discount refunded to them on the price.
I had looked through this book from cover to cover, knowing that it was a valuable book, and found no problems, missing pages, etc. I'm 100% sure it was intact. I return their email, politely telling them that the book was intact when it was mailed, and that unfortunately, I would not be able to offer them a discount.
They become insistant, telling me basically, that if I don't discount the price, they will file a complaint with paypal and get their money back.
They told me they were returning the book to me and expected a refund when it arrived. I told them not to return the book, because if it now has pages missing, it is not in the condition it was in when i mailed it, and I
could not accept it back. They mailed it anyway, and requested a signature receipt. The book is now at the post office, and I need to know before signing for it, should I accept it back, or should I refuse it and have it returned to the buyer?
I really get the feeling that I'm about to get the old switcheroo from this buyer. He sends me back a copy of the book that is in poor condition, and keeps mine. Then files for paypal to see if he can get his money back, basically getting the book for free.
For those of who who may ask, what kind of discount did he want? About 75%. Wanted a $400 book for $100. The buyer only has a couple of feedbacks. I have almost 3000 with 6 retalitory negs. I've been on ebay for a while, but fortunately have not run into this kind of problem before. I need advise on what to do. On the rare occasions I've had buyers with legitimate concerns, I bend over backwards to make them happy. This transaction just feels totally wrong.
Just checked my email- he has filed a complaint with paypal, and Square trade. Now saying that 100 pages is missing from a 320 page book (duh, I think I would have noticed that, don't you think?). Says that he returned the book to me but has not received a refund.
posted on August 16, 2003 09:58:10 AM new
You have just encountered an ebay lowlife from ebay's Dark Side. It looks like the old switcheroo or something similar.( get a $400 book for $100 and then resell the book for $400 ) Paypal will have to get involved in this he said/she said dispute. As Jesse Jackson would say " I feel your pain " and one of the very unfortunate side effects of selling high end goods on ebay and through the mail is encountering this type of lowlife non-ethical scum.
I really hope this thread does not receive a bunch of " you should have had another person witness the completeness and condition of the book before sending it " remarks but that may be what the big auction houses do with their high end goods.
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
posted on August 16, 2003 10:08:40 AM new
When you do win or lose the Paypal dispute look for Paypal to close your account and possibly freeze your PP assests during the investigation ( 12poles advice is very good ). You should be able to open another account though. ( might want to use a different credit card name )
It is so sad that there are people that see a weakness in a system and without any morals or scruples whatsoever they exploit that system of loopholes for their ill-gotten gain.
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
posted on August 16, 2003 10:32:31 AM new
1) Paypal does not deal with quality issues unless the buyer purchases their insurance. In that case, the only way that PayPal will refund their purchase is if the buyer sends the item to PayPal.
2) Squaretrade - Powerless. Just write a response expressing your feelings in the matter and move on.
3) AuctionAce is incorrect about PayPal locking up an account. I just had sale go thru the whole shebang of chargeback, first a PayPal attempt, then a charge card chargeback. At no point during the transaction was me account locked, the amount being disputed was but only that mount and I continued to do business the whole time.
My advice as to dealing with the situation would be to go to the post office and refuse the package, have it returned to sender but get the tracking number on the signature release so that if they attempt to further dispute this you have that additional information.
If the buyer continues or attempts a credit card charge back, inform them that if they persist in these attemts you will not hesitate to pursue charges of credit card fraud against them.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Aug 16, 2003 10:34 AM ]
posted on August 16, 2003 10:38:52 AM new
The DC showed it was delivered but not the condition. Someone posted here that a seller could mail a rock instead of the auction item and get a valid DC for Paypal on the item.
Please keep us posted on the progress of this matter. I usually sell items in the $5 to $20 range so I don't usually have that much to lose but occassionally I get lucky and sell something for a large sum of money and wonder about the possible scams that could derail the sale.
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
posted on August 16, 2003 10:53:27 AM new
I am probably not the best one to give advice as per recent posts, but maybe if you have pictures of the book and can do closeups, you can tell if there is 100 pages missing? And throw his/her claim right out the window?
Also maybe as serves as a reminder to get your self a invisible marking pen for high end items.
Yippee!! went to check on the transaction dispute in my account to see if I needed to give them the delivery confirmation number. And found the case already closed. Paypal says that the investigation is closed and they will not be taking any further action against me, but gave no other information. I'm really surprised, thought that there would be a battle on my hands. I wonder if maybe this guy has recently tried this a lot of times??
posted on August 16, 2003 11:00:00 AM new
thanks for all your advice!
Tomwiii- for future reference, are you talking about the insurance receipt that requires a signature? that was sent, he did have to sign for it when the mailman scanned it.
thanks again everyone for taking the time to give me advice.
posted on August 16, 2003 11:02:03 AM new
He probably means the "signature confirmation" it is a little more expensive than regular DC, but if you shipped insured, they had to sign for that item if the insurance was over $100...
posted on August 16, 2003 11:32:42 AM new
Right if you insure a package over a certain amount $50.00 then the mailperson has to get a signature from whom the package is addressed to. Great I am happy you won your case. The post office will probably send the book back to him if you don't pick it up.
Bookmark his seller ID and see if he tries and resells the book.
posted on August 16, 2003 12:15:02 PM new
I hope you blocked this bidder from bidding on any more of your auctions. If not, they might try messing them up.
posted on August 16, 2003 12:24:52 PM new
paypal said case closed??
i would keep all my records,it may resurrect.
usps insurance receipt does have his signature but you will have to ask post office to produce the copy and it will take time.
in the meantime,if paypal said you have x number of days to come up with online trackable dc and signature receipt,you may find yourself working with a very slow partner -USPS.
Thats why dealers of expensive books ship via private carriers.
your buyer may file chargeback with his cc company and you could find out months down the road when paypal asks you again to produce records.
-sig file -------They may have ginsu knife,but we have DING KING!!!!
posted on August 16, 2003 01:05:11 PM newWhen you do win or lose the Paypal dispute look for Paypal to close your account and possibly freeze your PP assests during the investigation ( 12poles advice is very good ). You should be able to open another account though. ( might want to use a different credit card name )
Fenix03, I'm just posting what I've read in numerous posts here about sellers having their PP accounts closed after a PP dispute.
Naturally, not a one of those posters will read this thread.
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
posted on August 16, 2003 01:26:43 PM new
during investigation,paypal may just freeze enough from seller account to satisfy the claim in case they find the seller at fault,if your account has 1k,and the complaing is like 998,then the whole account will be frozen.
if you drain the account and paypal find you to be at fault ,your account will show a deficit balance.
i dont know if it is a good idea to open another account as paypal may find out and restrict your second account for the deficit of the first account.
last year there were numerous postings from seller claiming they dont know why their accounts were restricted??it turns out this is exactly what they did,move on to a new account.
-sig file -------They may have ginsu knife,but we have DING KING!!!!
posted on August 16, 2003 02:08:02 PM new
you should refuse to accept the package at the Post Office. You have already made your decision, which sounds like the right one to me. block this low life bidder and move on.
I have a seperate email folder called complaints and problems...this is where I would store any emails, including from ebay and paypal, that pertain to this incident. that way you can find them quickly when and if you need them.
posted on August 16, 2003 04:32:18 PM new
It does sound like the ol' switcheroo to me, too.
I just wonder--if you'd asked the buyer to tell you the numbers of the pages that were missing, would it be possible then to look at another identical copy of the book to see if you had posted pictures of some of the "missing" pages? Probably the book is too rare for another copy to be around, though. . . .
Something I'll do if I ever have a book that high-end is to leaf through the pages, perhaps even get a family member to "witness" that, then "certify" in the description that "all pages are present, as certified by a witness."
posted on August 16, 2003 10:38:54 PM new
Sounds like it all worked out, my only advice would be to either require insurance or send signature confirmation on a $400 item next time...
