posted on November 12, 2003 05:55:26 PM new
Hi All, your advice is much appreciated.
As a seller as well as a buyer I have come to understand the importance of DC to prove shipments arrive.
I bought a $35 item on ebay and paid with Paypal 17 days ago. Item has not arrived and seller says he mailed it immediately on payment 17 days ago.
Insurance was offered but I declined because (a) the seller required double what insurance would actually cost and (b) the item was unbreakable and I figured for $8.95 S&H for a 2 oz item, seller would obtain a tracking method, so insurance would not be necessary.
The problem is that the seller emailed and said he did not obtain DC or any other tracking method (even though the S&H I paid was $8.95 for a 2oz item) so he could not track it, and told me to go to my post office and ask them to check in the back etc. then if it was not there he would file a report to trace it.
The mail clerk of course did not find it and told me that millions of mail pieces pass through every day and unless there is some kind of tracking number then you cannot trace anything.
I know different mail employees tell you different things and I have read on posts here that reports can be filed.
I have also read that you have to wait 30 days before filing - that creates the problem in making a Paypal claim because they require a claim WITHIN 30 days.
I should say that seller has high feedback, all positive.
My qustions to you all are -
Even assuming seller is truthful should I just file a claim with Paypal because he did not get DC or similar tracking ?
Even if a lost mail report is filed, is it really possible to trace or track one of the millions of mail pieces that do NOT have a tracking method ?
I know this has been long but I wanted you to see the full picture, your turn............
posted on November 12, 2003 06:00:57 PM new
For $8.95 s/h for a 2-oz item, he should have a tracking number. Did he say he mailed it through the USPS; and if so, what method (i.e., Priority)? Is your address confirmed?
If it were me, I would go ahead and initiate a PayPal claim. You can always retract it if the package shows up.
As a seller, I absolutely refuse to mail anything without a tracking # - I use DC on all domestic packages and Global Priority on international.
Just my two cents
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 12, 2003 06:04:23 PM new
Seller says he mailed it 1st class in a bubble envelope and the package did not meet the requirements for DC.......
posted on November 12, 2003 06:07:16 PM new
WOW, $8.95 for first class in a bubble envelope!
The thickness for the bubble envelope should have met the requirements for DC.
Yes, file a claim with PayPal.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 12, 2003 06:10:31 PM new
from the USPS website regarding DC on First Class packages...
First-Class Mail® Parcels - Envelopes and small packages weighing 13 ounces or less. Applies only to boxes or envelopes measuring at least 3/4” at thickest point.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 12, 2003 06:26:52 PM new
I would not hesitate for a second to file a claim. I rarely take insurance out as a buyer, and always try to pay with paypal. It is my experience that very few sellers actually use DC, so if the item did not get here, I know I basically have free insurance...
posted on November 12, 2003 06:48:20 PM new
wgm - If the seller's Post Office is like ours...it wouldn't qualify. Our P.O. will not accept D.C. on ANY First Class Mail unless it's in a box. (I've argued 'til I'm blue in the face over this one)!
posted on November 12, 2003 06:48:48 PM new
Yes. And after you file the claim, please be sure to put this seller on the rack, then draw and quarter him. (Email if you need instructions for the latter procedure; I'm sure quite a few of my customers are in possession of same; I can get it from them.)
After all, he had the nerve to state his terms of sale right up front. He should have been able to guess the yeah-I-agreed-to-it-but-I-didn't-really-mean-it reaction when you didn't get your item 15 seconds after you paid for it.
I mean, heck, this year is shaping up to the best mailorder Christmas season in a long time, so it's not like the mails are clogged or anything.
--
Coming soon to an Internet near you: fluffythewondercat.com
posted on November 12, 2003 07:13:42 PM new
>If the seller's Post Office is like ours...it wouldn't qualify. Our P.O. will not accept D.C. on ANY First Class Mail unless it's in a box.<
Our post office was getting sticky about this too -- I continually sell a good volume of baseball cards, which I sell in a padded envelope. I followed the advice of a poster here and got an Endicia account, and now I can print the postage at home, with DC for 13 cents instead of what the PO charges, and I can mail them from my house, with DC, in bubble envelopes. Never had a problem since with one getting there, and never had one returned to me.
posted on November 12, 2003 08:04:19 PM new
Hey Flashark, I really don't know what your last post is all about. To me it looks like people gave you the advice you asked for. Yes, file a claim with paypal. Jerks like this (QUOTE) seller are the kind of seller I will blast every time they do stupid stuff. About the shipping charge, hey its your money and you can spend it anyway you want. Come on over to my auctions I love big spenders like you.
posted on November 12, 2003 09:43:42 PM new
Sorry Bigpeepa, my last post was directed to the negative sarcastic remarks from fluffythewondercat. Any opinion is welcome as advice wether it agrees with the majority or not, but if none of it is constructive then it is not advice.
Thank you to everybody else for your comments, they are appreciated.
Does anybody have any knowledge regarding the second original question - Even if a lost mail report is filed, is it really possible to trace or track one of the millions of mail pieces that do NOT have a tracking method ?
posted on November 12, 2003 09:52:03 PM new
It is my understanding that you after 30 days you can fill out a form on a missing package. I don't know the actual tracing procedure for it, or if they do follow up on it. I asked the clerk at my PO about this a few months ago, and she said there was NO way to trace a package that did not have a traceable # (DC or insurance)...but they still fill out the form.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 12, 2003 11:08:23 PM new
OK, FloridaJumpTheShark, I will try again.
Part One.
---------
You ASSUMED the $8.95 included "tracking". Did you ask? No, you did not. Did you ask if DC was included? No, you did not.
You DECLINED insurance because the seller wanted "double the actual cost for it". Besides, the item was "unbreakable", and that "insurance would be unnecessary" because the seller would purchase DC.
These are willful actions on your part.
These are terms of service you knew about.
End of Part One.
----------------
Part Two.
---------
Let's go back and examine your assumptions. A number of them are faulty.
1) A high s/h price to weight ratio means you must be getting something more than actual shipping and handling.
No, not at all. On certain types of eBay items, the seller's entire profit margin is in shipping/handling. He breaks even on the auction price.
2) Delivery Confirmation provides tracking for a parcel.
No, and the Postal Service is very, very clear on this point. Delivery Confirmation is exactly that: confirmation that the item was delivered to the *station* it was addressed to. It's not proof of mailing, no record of any kind is maintained about where the parcel was consigned.
Think of it this way:
Back during the aerial bombardment of Baghdad, residents saw bright flashes of light and felt the earth shake. THAT is Delivery Confirmation. They had no idea where those JDAMs originated.
3) Seller wanted too much for insurance.
Shrug. He might have been using third-party parcel insurance. He might have been wrong about what USPS charges, or you might have been. Or he may include a return receipt when he buys USPS insurance. No way to know without ASKING.
4) I don't need insurance because the item is unbreakable.
Is it also unlose-able?
5) Insurance would be unnecessary because the seller would purchase Delivery Confirmation.
You just don't get it, my friend. You can't locate a mislaid package using Delivery Confirmation. And it is entirely possible that it got delivered to someone on the next block, the next street over or across town. No identification is required to accept a DC package. (For that you need Signature Confirmation, another topic for another time.)
End of Part Two.
----------------
Look, there is a lot of misinformation floating around good ol' Vendio, mainly propagated by people who are too lazy to look up the facts. You do not realize it because you dislike my tone, but I'm actually giving you a lot of useful information. There's no reason to believe that your seller is deceitful or a cheat, and if you keep that in mind instead of lapsing into panic, anger or vengefulness (as many here would have you do) you have a much better chance of completing this transaction successfully.
I have a very good customer (purchased over 500 items to date) who feels she is missing a number of auction wins. No accusations, no picket fence punctuation (!!!!!!!), no threats to leave negative feedback, just calm reasonableness. So far we've got it about 80% resolved and I feel confident it will be 100% resolved in a day or so.
--
Coming soon to an Internet near you: fluffythewondercat.com
posted on November 13, 2003 02:05:16 AM new
File the Paypal claim.
I recently bought an item for one cent with a $9 s/h fee. Paid instantly with Paypal and there was no correspondence from seller whatsoever. After a week I wrote and asked the seller if he received my payment as many sellers 'forget' to check their PP accounts. Still no correspondence so after 10 days I filed a PP claim and got an immediate email from seller saying he mailed it two days earlier via First Class Mail. Two days later a poorly wrapped manila envelope arrives with $2 + postage meter on it and no DC used ( was about 3/4" thick ).
I was very tempted to tell the seller it never arrived and get the item for free but I canceled the PP claim. That was the straw that broke the camel's back as to eagerily buying stuff on ebay. Incidents like this happen far too frequently.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
[ edited by AuctionAce on Nov 13, 2003 02:05 AM ]
posted on November 13, 2003 02:15:36 AM new
Sellers have 7 days to mail a package after payment is received, according to Paypal policy. That is - to be covered under PP's protection.
I would contact PP immediately.
They will ask the seller to prove delivery.
If the seller can't, you will then have the recourse to get your money back.
posted on November 13, 2003 04:22:14 AM new
I use DC and Global Priority as proof of mailing.
I use the USPS Shipping Assistant, and staple the receipt to my payment information from the buyer (printed PayPal notification, envelope from mailed payment), and have it postmarked at the PO when I ship. My PO scans every single DC label I have.
On Global Priority, I write the GP tracking # on the payment information and have that postmarked as well. I also note the customs # along with the GP #. The customs bar code IS scanned at my PO, as well as the GP #.
What I do is not proof of delivery, but proof of mailing...
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 13, 2003 04:39:03 AM new
Fluffythewondercat, Thank you this time for constructive comments. I realise that DC does not track mail, the reason it is important is to prove that the seller actually mailed the item (not just for honesty but more importantly for Paypal).
After dissecting all the information and defending the seller on each count like a lawyer, could you please look at my side too ?
I simply paid immediately and no item has arrived ?
Did I do something wrong ?
All the seller is willing to do is file a lost mail report after 30 days which will not recover the item, so do I just do nothing and lose my money ?
posted on November 13, 2003 04:49:33 AM new
YOU NEED TO CONTACT PP!
The seller has to PROVE she shipped the item, with a tracking number...if she can't then you can get your money back.
If you do receive the item, then go back to PP and repay!
You don't have to PROVE anything!
I am not defending the seller.
I am trying to help you as others are.
Either take the advice or forget it!
posted on November 13, 2003 05:20:55 AM new
Personally, I would give it some more time. The mail IS slow right now. I've had bubble mailers take 3 weeks to get from Ohio to Texas. The recent Veteran's Day holiday also set the mail back a couple of days. One day off = two days later than normal. When I go to the post office in the morning it's jammed with people sending packages. The clerk told me they are unusually busy right now. While I agree that the shipping cost was excessive, by bidding on the auction you agreed to the seller's terms.
I use DC even though I know it means nothing. IMO, DC is worthless as far as proving anything. More often than not I have to remind my postal clerks to scan it. However, my auctions clearly state that I'm not responsible for what happens to your package after I drop it off at the Post Office. If the seller's feedback is good I doubt she's trying to scam you. I just don't see how you can hold her responsible for what the post office may have lost or misdelivered. I once had a postal worker deliver mail to the wrong addresses on our street. She was one house off for the entire street. Now, I'm lucky that I know my neighbors.
The USPS used to have an eBay auction site for items that were "lost in the mail". If you've seen it, you know that there were literally hundreds of items. Somehow I don't think laying blame on the seller is quite right.
posted on November 13, 2003 05:35:19 AM new
floridashark,
to file a missing item report with post office?? they will eventually send the report to an office in san francisco,where all the undeliverable mail end up.
do you think they will be able to find a bubble envelope with your name and address on it??
that office is the place where all the accumulated mail from past years sit,not just san fran or ca,but the entire country.
file you paypal complaint and move on,we have better things to do.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
posted on November 13, 2003 05:41:15 AM new
File a complaint with PayPal. They will rule in your favor since he has no proof of shipping.
If you receive the item you can always PayPal him the Money again.
I always have trouble with these since I have shipped over 3000 items with the PO and only had one lost and it was an international item and the person it was being shipped to moved while it was in shipment.
"For I know the plans I have for you." says the Lord. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope." - Jeremiah 29:11
posted on November 13, 2003 06:40:19 AM newFluffy, what do you think I should do ?
Here's what PayPal recommends, verbatim:
Before filing a claim we encourage you to work directly with your seller as most issues can be resolved through direct communication.
I agree. That's your best chance of a happy resolution.
On the other hand, if you want to antagonize the seller and vent frustration, by all means file for a PayPal claim now, rather than holding off for a week to give the item time to arrive.
I find that very few people here actually read the PayPal help pages.
--
Coming soon to an Internet near you: fluffythewondercat.com
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on Nov 13, 2003 06:41 AM ]
posted on November 13, 2003 06:52:31 AM newPersonally, I would give it some more time. The mail IS slow right now.
That is certainly my experience.
Also, if FloridaShark's parcel was misaddressed, it can take weeks to be returned to the seller.
A couple of years ago I had a beautiful slipcased double volume book on Chinese furniture...definitely a specialty item. It went for $125.00. I shipped book rate (now Media Mail). The buyer started going crazy on day 7, but kept in touch. We went down the checklist: verified I had shipped to correct address, confirmed that he was aware I'd used book rate, noted that the package had not been returned to me undeliverable, etc. Over the next couple of weeks he calmed down and finally, on day 30, he received the book.
I wish more buyers were willing to work with me instead of demanding an instant refund.
--
Coming soon to an Internet near you: fluffythewondercat.com
posted on November 13, 2003 07:17:48 AM new
OK, Thank you all for your advice.
Judging by the comments from "stopwhining" , "liveinjeans" and "horsey88" you would think this thread is dragging although it has only been open for 13 hours.
Therefore I will say thank you again, I take all the advice, I am making my decision and am moving on.
If you want to still talk about it that's up to you.
