posted on January 17, 2004 10:38:46 PM new
I have a woman, who incidentally only lives 20 minutes from me (Newburgh Classic) that states that she never received her package. It has a delivery confirmation as delivered. She has threatened me with a neg. Should I stick to my guns and not refund her or should I just refund her and block her. This was her last email to me:
OK fine tell you what if there not here Monday im just gonna leave the appropriate feedback. im tired of always paying promptly then getting bad end of stick. i didnt receive them its your responsiblility to see why not mines. you got your money.
Actually I would like to hear what Fluffy's witty response would be cause this email has my blood boiling.
posted on January 17, 2004 10:59:37 PM new
First off, where is it written that if a buyer doesn't receive their item that a seller is obligated to issue a refund? That type of surrender mentality infuriates me. You have evidence that you sent it and it was delivered. You are out of the loop. It's now between her and U.S.P.S. insurance to fight it out. You as a good seller can offer to assist her in getting the paperwork filed properly. This is assuming she paid for insurance. If she was too cheap to buy insurance, then she's on her own and deserves anything that comes down the road. When she declined insurance, she accepted the risk. There is absolutely nothing you can do at this time if she refuses to check her local P.O. to see if they have it. Since she has already threatened neg feedback, I would engage her in an email diologue to try to explain to her what your obligations are. If she gets mad and repeats the threat, especially if she demands a refund or she will leave neg f.b., this will be your best bet to charge her with feedback extortion and get the neg removed if she leaves one. I hope you didn't leave her positive feedback when you received payment.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on January 17, 2004 11:33:30 PM new
Write her and tell her to call or go to the post office and see if it is sitting somewhere on a shelf. (Or better yet since you live so close why don't you call the post office. I think that is what I would do.) This happens many times as when a postman goes to deliver the package he scans it, wrong, it should be scanned after delivery, but that day he might have scanned it first. She probably wasn't home and he took it back to the post office. A priority box is not to be left on a door step as it has to be delivered in person to the addressee. I found this out by talking to a postmaster in Texas when one of my boxes wasn't delivered and delivery confirmation said it was. Well come to find out the person in Texas gave permission for the postman to leave the package on the porch. Never give that permission. She never received it. Box was insured but insurance didn't pay because she gave that permission and it showed delivery.
Don't refund. If she gives you a negative then response in a kindly manner.
posted on January 18, 2004 03:30:42 AM new
What happened here to Junebug is why I never send out anything without D.C on it.If its real expensive, I have them also sign for it
even if they dont want to pay for the addtional fee,I figure the little extra charge is worth the insurance I get.
Junebug-I assume since you send priority mail that the D.C. is free through their website-any questions you can email me at [email protected]
posted on January 18, 2004 07:30:34 AM new
Sorry sparkz and others it is kind of like against the law to take money from people and give them nothing, its called mail fraud, just plain old fraud, theft, grand larceny, or stealing.
A sale is a contract where cash is exchanged for goods. for instance, You order pizza from toni's and pay over the phone by credit card. In route to your house the delivery guy stops to take a whiz at Bobs garage. When the delivery guy gets back in his car he see's the pizza is gone. What happens now? Are you SOL? Can Toni tell you sorry your pizza got stolen, have a nice day. Sorry you didn't buy pizza insurance, have a nice day! Noooo.. you paid for pizza..Toni is obligated under the law to bring you a pizza or refund your money.
So the buyer refused insurance does that mean you can just stiff them for their cash? Nooo.... The contract obligation between seller and buyer by law is from the sellers door to the buyers door. Not from the sellers door to the Post office. If the buyer does not get the goods in a reasonable period of time it is reasonable for them to expect restitution or replacement from the seller!
posted on January 18, 2004 07:38:58 AM new
aldings,
well said.
this is what major retailers do,they ship you a replacement or refund your money.
but ebay is a flea market and most of us are not major retailers.
and USPS is getting fed up with individual buyer/seller squabbles.
say you go to a sunday flea market 20 miles from home and bot a piece of mexican pottery from a dealer,come home and find out it is mass produced in vietnam.
you go back the next sunday and try to find the dealer,either he denies ever selling it to you as there were never any receipt or he just has a bad hairday and did not show up.
what can you do??engage in a fist fight with him,make a big scene or just take the lump and come home with the pottery and pretend it is handcrafted in mexico??
AFTERALL,YOU KNOW WHY YOU SHOP AT A FLEA MARKET VERSUS NEIMAN MARCUS,IT IS SO MUCH CHEAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on January 18, 2004 07:54:13 AM new
Alldins, and what if this buyer is lieing and is the one commiting the actual post office fraud? Big companies can write that stuff off. Small sellers, eh...I dont know, esp. if happens one time too many. BTW, the pizza scenio, well, they are liable for the their delivery driver getting out and having a wizz ensuing the loss there. Ebay and Paypal terms say you are obligated to send it and prove you did send it.
Junebug, maybe you should get a hold of the local Post office phone number of the buyer, and give them a call since your DC states it was delivered. Sometimes the carriers remember specific things.
Its a hard place to be in (and depending on the monies involved), only you can decide if you should refund or not. You can ask your buyer to be patient and give it another week while you contact the post office. Seems an odd thing as they are 20 mins away. Could you possibly have mislabeled it?
posted on January 18, 2004 08:04:53 AM new
Junebug, this is how we handle situations like this. I take them on a case by case basis. How much money is involved? Do I have another item? Do I want to keep this customer? I'll tell you we have always had the package delivered. One time it took 6 weeks and I had refunded the money (less than $20.00) to keep the customer and when she received her package, she sent me the money again. I didn't ask her to. There are people who will take advantage of you, but most people, I believe, just want what they paid for. How much money are we talking about?
posted on January 18, 2004 08:10:34 AM new
If it was insured you'll have to start the process, if it wasn't the buyer is SOL and if you never mentioned insurance one way or the other you accepted responsiblity and are obliged to refund.
dd
posted on January 18, 2004 08:29:16 AM new
THE ITEM IS NOT INSURED,JUST DC.
DC IS SWIPED AT POST OFFICE IS WORTHLESS,IF SWIPED AT THE BUYER DOORSTEP,IT MEANS SOMETHING
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on January 18, 2004 10:01:27 AM new
>>Sorry sparkz and others it is kind of like against the law to take money from people and give them nothing, its called mail fraud, just plain old fraud, theft, grand larceny, or stealing. <<
Dear Alldings, I agree with your statement, but disagree with your reasoning.... If I take your money and can not show proof of shipment, then yes, I am obligated to return your money or provide you with product.
However, if I and my carrier, be it USPS, UPS, or FedEx have records showing your item was scanned into the carriers delivery system, I have upheld my end of the bargain. You now have a complaint with the carrier, not with me, the seller.
If you elected to not purchase insurance, that was a risk you were willing to take.
If I as a seller, do not offer to sell you insurance or neglect to send my package with a means of carrier tracking, that is the risk I take.
I , as a seller, always try to locate the missing package, but I can not and will not be held liable for a package that I have proof of sending. If negs are forth-coming, then so be it.
A little common sense and less victim mentality would clear our courtrooms in a hurry!
posted on January 18, 2004 10:26:09 AM new
Okay, my biases are going to show here. Her e-mail sounds ignorant, and sometimes uneducated people live in poorer neighborhoods. I'm thinking the mailman may have left the package at her door (even if he shouldn't) and it could have been stolen. We can't know, however, and I have no idea what I'd do in this case. Definitely talk to the post office and definitely give it a little more time.
___________________________________
"I have resolved to allow my friends their peculiarities." -- Samuel Johnson
posted on January 18, 2004 10:28:55 AM new
Here is one reason I don't use DC when I insure packages. The following is from the USPS website. Sorry it is long.
The Postal Service accepts any of the following as ]proof of loss:
a. A letter or statement from the addressee, dated at least 30 days (15 days for Registered Mail) after the date the article was mailed, stating that the addressee did not receive the article. The statement, or a copy of it, must be attached to the claim.
b. A claim form (see step 4) completed by the addressee indicating that the article was not received must be signed and returned to the sender.
c. A statement from the Post Office of address (the addressee's Post Office) stating that a delivery record is not on file. To obtain such a statement, send a written request asking for proof of delivery to the Post Office of address with a check or money order for $6.60. The $6.60 charge is reimbursed if the claim is paid. Include names and addresses of the sender and addressee; insured, Express Mail service, or register number; and date of mailing.
Since the DC shows delivery she cannot not show proof that it wasn't delivered.
[ edited by Libra63 on Jan 18, 2004 10:30 AM ]
[ edited by Libra63 on Jan 18, 2004 10:31 AM ]
posted on January 18, 2004 10:31:35 AM new
The whole reason I use DC is to make sure the customer gets the item. If it shows as delivered then I assume it was delivered. I do not refund when it shows delivered. It sounds like the customer did not op for insurance. Then they are sol.
To those who claim mail fraud. Give me a break. The item shows it was delivered. There is no fraud except possibly on the customers end. I have had bozos claim non delivery only to send then the DC # that it was delivered. They disappear or try to claim some other problem.
The only thing I would do is contact the post office for her. Of course if she is ready to neg then forget it. If you have not left feedback put the tracking number in the comments that showed it was delivered or leave a follow up.
posted on January 18, 2004 10:32:32 AM new
I would just refund and forget it. That is why I insist on insurance if the item is over $20.
Otherwise, all the aggravation is unsettling to me and interferes with my ability to continue to make ads and look at Ebay in a positive view.
If it happened very often I would have to reconsider. If they were "lieing" and wound up cheating me I still don't need the irritation of dealing with that type customer and the refund or replacement is still the easiest way out.
I no longer worry about deadbeats or cheats and I feel much better. Of course, it doesn't happen very often so I can say that.
posted on January 18, 2004 11:09:42 AM new
who said the item was delivered??
to where and to whom??
dc showed it was scanned at the post office,either the sending or receiving post office or both.
whooppee!
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on January 18, 2004 12:07:32 PM new
Lindajean: I really like what you said here:
"Otherwise, all the aggravation is unsettling to me and interferes with my ability to continue to make ads and look at Ebay in a positive view."
There truly are toxic people and situations that we need to avoid whenever possible. For me, one unhappy or troubling customer sort of ruins the day and I do feel sad about what I'm doing on Ebay. It's crazy, but it's true. Deal with it and move on--the only way to get back to normal!
___________________________________
"I have resolved to allow my friends their peculiarities." -- Samuel Johnson
posted on January 18, 2004 12:23:08 PM new
Roadsmith, I LOVE your Samuel Johnson quote. It does make life much more enjoyable when we choose what we are willing to pay attention to and allow the rest to live in their own little worlds.
posted on January 18, 2004 12:49:01 PM new
I think she has two options. 1. She can refund 2. or take the negative. More than likely if the package is at the PO then it will be delivered on Monday, that is if the buyer is home, if not they won't leave it.
I think since the distance is only 20 minutes away then maybe I would drive over and see what the problem is.
What was the winning bid of the auction? That can be a deciding factor also.
Can junebug get her negative removed if she can show proof of delivery?
posted on January 18, 2004 02:23:53 PM new
Thanks, ltray. I too love that quote. Since discovering it last year, it's helped me enormously to change my attitude toward people I care about but have thought I needed to change in some way! As long as their peculiarities aren't hurting anyone, I'm just overlooking it all. As I'm sure they do for all MY peculiarities.
___________________________________
"I have resolved to allow my friends their peculiarities." -- Samuel Johnson
posted on January 18, 2004 03:41:57 PM new
You need to let your buyer know that there will be NO mail delivery on Monday and the Post Office will be closed.
I agree, it will probably show up with the next mail delivery on Tuesday.
How long ago was the package mailed?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. --Will Rogers
posted on January 18, 2004 05:26:28 PM new
Thanks all-I have been busy this weekend and was suprised to come back to such a big response- Ok the amount was not alot of money-Less than $20..I have been doing this for about a year and sell in a pretty large volume-1 out of every 50 customers is a problem, so sometimes I dont know how to handle a situation. I want to satisfy all my customers but on the other hand I dont want all Ebay buyers to think that they can stomp there foot and get what they want because they think we are afraid of a neg. I was curious as to what the the majority opionion on this board was
RoadSmith-She is from a rough neighborhood and I think someone probably got it, opened it and kept it rather than give it to the carrier or her. I told her to give it until Tues. to see if she gets it and if not I will send her another or refund her payment-She has emailed me a couple of times since and it sounds like she has had quite a few bad expereinces with Ebay so I figure I would try to make it right for her.
posted on January 18, 2004 08:34:11 PM new
I want to satisfy all my customers but on the other hand I dont want all Ebay buyers to think that they can stomp there foot and get what they want because they think we are afraid of a neg.
.
.
.It sounds like that's exactly what's happening here. You did everything right and you're being played for a patsy if you refund. If the item that you sell happens to be a $1-5 cost item, then go ahead and resend if you're in a Santa Claus mood. It's not right though.
posted on January 18, 2004 09:06:10 PM new
In spite of the generous and benevolent views of others who believe the customer is always right and a refund shouuld be issued with no questions asked upon request, the fact remains that your obligation to get that item to the customer ended at the Postal clerk's window. You paid the U.S. Postal service good money to transport that item to your customer and they failed. It's their problem to deal with the customer and find the item, not yours. Want to have fun? Go to the Post Office and ask them for a refund of the shipping charges. See what kind of answer you get. They'll tell you that they delivered the item and they'll wash their hands of it. Bottom line, your customer is either scamming you, the P.O. is lying, or her neighbors are a bunch of thieves. Instead of sending her another item, which won't make it there either, why don't you send her an application for a P.O. Box? I had a customer in the Bronx N.Y. insist on paying $14.00 to ship his item Priority Mail to his P.o. Box instead of paying $6.50 FedEx Ground to ship to his apartment. His reason? Any package left by the front door will be stolen within 10 minutes.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on January 18, 2004 09:28:38 PM new
Lindajean,
I couldn't agree with you more. That's the the right attitude to keep you happy selling on eBay.
I to replace/refund under 20.00 & add insurance to S&H over 20.00
posted on January 19, 2004 08:13:57 AM new
Send an email and tell her to get ready for the Postal Inspector to knock on her door for his investigation of the non-delivery.
