BIGPEEPA
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posted on January 30, 2004 05:26:12 AM new
I am getting scammed and don't know what to do about it. There is the deal. I sold 2 small dresser boxes to a woman in Florida. She asked me to pack them in one box to save on shipping cost. We did as she asked and sent the 2 pieces in one box by Priority Mail after she paid through PayPal. Now ten days later she just wrote saying something like this. "I received the one box but did not receive my second box yet. I looked through your package and can't find the second box. Please advise". We sent her package with Delivery Conformation and full insurance. When we pack boxes we have a system that double checks every box we ship by 2 people. So whats next for me a PayPal charge back and I have no recourse? Any ideas?
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neglus
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posted on January 30, 2004 05:33:42 AM new
I'll preface this by saying that my shipping experience is limited to sending postcards and packages to my mother & sibs at Christmas, and therefore not worth a hill of beans.
Wouldnt the weight of your package verify that it held two and not one dresser boxes? Seems like that, along with a copy of her request to put in one box to save on shipping would be reasonable evidence that you did deliver two items.
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BIGPEEPA
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posted on January 30, 2004 06:19:47 AM new
NEGLUS, good idea but the boxes were small and the whole package weighed under 1 pound. We insured the whole box for $185.00 that was the total value of both pieces.
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stopwhining
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posted on January 30, 2004 06:49:01 AM new
if you feel you did ship 2 boxes,you can forward her the insurance form and have her take the form and the package to post office and explain why there is only one box.
usps would examine the outside box,to see if it has been tempered,say the bottom of the box,has it been open and resealed??
if there is no sign of tempering with the external box,the claim would be denied.
but this is one way to test if she is telling the truth-if she is willing to face the post office scrutiny.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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iareateacher
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posted on January 30, 2004 06:49:26 AM new
Don't panic.
She says there was only one dresser box in the package? Write back and calmly state that she is mistaken because you watched as the packer prepared her package. Don't get mad, don't make threats, just patiently hold this line no matter how hyperbolic her email gets.
Remember this: It costs her nothing to bug you about this by email. So she has no incentive to stop. But once she sees that your responses will always be implacable she will give up.
She can try to file a PayPal claim, but PayPal doesn't get involved in these kinds of disputes. You have a DC record showing the package was delivered. That's all you need.
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BIGPEEPA
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posted on January 30, 2004 08:06:39 AM new
Its true on my part we do have a system where all the boxes we ship are checked and double checked by 2 people. The woman is being nice so far and I am trying to help her out by starting a insurance claim with the Post Office. She has already said the box looked untouched and that her building has a "package in check point" whatever that is. She seems to know all the answers maybe she has been through this kind of claim before. To me she seems very slick about all this for a gal with only 19 feedback that are all good by the way. It looks like somehow I am going to wind up getting stuck for money or getting a negative feedback over this mess. To me it looks like any buyer getting more than one item in one box could say the same thing. I don't see how a seller can counter their claim.
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auctionACE
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posted on January 30, 2004 08:12:13 AM new
Paypal doesn't get involved with many disputes but may let her try to get half of her money back back since there is only one DC. The postal insurance should cover any loss to the buyer and they will probably deny the claim if the packaging is in good condition.
I've never thought about combined auction wins being sent together and a buyer trying to scam a seller by claiming parts of package never arrived but I can see some buyers seeing it as an opprotunity to coerce a buyer into a partial refund.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
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beatnikera
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posted on January 30, 2004 08:31:20 AM new
The also happended to me once.
Someone complained they only got
1 out of the 2 items from me.
Well, I happened to take a digital
picture of the 2 items right in the
shipping box along with their
ship-to address.
They got back and said they
"found'" the "missing" item after
all!
What a scammer.
I take a quick picture of eveything I
sell in the actual mailing container
and ship with delivery confirmation.
I also store all of my images for at
least 12 months so nobody tries to
pull this scam again.
This shuts them up real quick.
[ edited by beatnikera on Jan 30, 2004 08:32 AM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on January 30, 2004 09:10:02 AM new
yeah,she is right,as far as paypal is concerned,there should be 2 dc for two ebay transactions.
this is an interesting topic for paypal,many sellers do combine shipping to save the buyer money,but you cant have multiple dc on one box??
but if she paid 8.00 shipping ,you could ship each box separately first class with dc and squeeze in 2.20 insurance for 4 dollars per box.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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LATTEFOR2
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posted on January 30, 2004 09:30:04 AM new
I am going to ask a real dumb question here Could you have shipped one dresser box inside another? and buyer did not look inside the dresser box.
reenie
I don't get even....I get even better Jimmy Hoffa
[ edited by LATTEFOR2 on Jan 30, 2004 09:43 AM ]
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iareateacher
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posted on January 30, 2004 09:34:44 AM new
Bigpeepa: I've re-read the Seller Protection Policy and it does not say you must have Delivery Confirmation for each item. In fact, it appears that for orders in which you sell multiple items but receive a single PayPal payment, you need have only one DC.
I would get a ruling from PayPal on this and not rely on opinions from Vendio posters.
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neroter12
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posted on January 30, 2004 09:40:04 AM new
Does Paypal really look for and require two seperate DC's, when its obvious shipment has been combined? They even set up an invoice to combine. I cant believe that would be so!!
BigPeepa, I hope you make out okay. Really sounds like you know what you've shipped -- after all, you are not a novice at this! I definitely think buyer is lieing to you, however nice she may be. (::shakes head:: thats what you get for being cool with people some days and combining shipments, eh? - Just so much crap out there!)
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lindajean
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posted on January 30, 2004 09:45:51 AM new
I have combined shipments on such things as groups of lobby cards, record albums, craft books, etc.
I learned after being scammed once...Always seperate the items. Put them in individual bags clearly marked with the auction # or put them in separate small boxes inside the large one if you have any lightweight boxes.
It won't help you now, and I hope you get it cleared up. I only had to refund $18 on mine. I know all the items were in the box because they were not here and I check them off when I mail. But, I had no proof so I sent a refund. Your's was way to much money to handle it that way
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Fenix03
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posted on January 30, 2004 09:51:34 AM new
Nero - No - PayPal does not require seperate DCs for each ebay transaction despite what others here have said. The could not care less how many ebay transactions are involved - They do require it for seperate PayPal transactions but even that can be worked around if you can show thru weight that both items were in the same package.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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glassgrl
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posted on January 30, 2004 10:48:01 AM new
hmmmm. now there's an idea. putting the weight discription in every auction.
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stopwhining
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posted on January 30, 2004 10:52:54 AM new
the combined wt of 2 items is under 1 lb so no way to tell from postage paid ( i think he shipped usps prority,so it is 3.85).
wt is no way to prove what you ship,used car salesman had shipped a box of rocks instead of laptop with dc.
as far as what does paypal look for when it comes to dispute,start with buyer filing paypal complaint within 30 days,she lists the ebay transaction number or the paypal transaction number??
if she goes direct to her cc issuer,it does not matter what paypal said.
i still think the first thing to do is to stall her,say that a team of experts have been dispatched to investigate and should come back with a study,you will then make an executive decision as to what to do next,hopefully 30 days will pass.
then punish her by sending her the insurance form and make her stand in line at her local post office.
hopefully she has more than one irons in the fire and move on to her next scam.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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getalife
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posted on January 30, 2004 11:36:33 AM new
I think you are safe for the reasons enumerated above but let's look at this from a different angle, Paypal wise. Suppose you sent a box with just packing and no item. It would be the other person who was scammed. What would be Paypal's answer to this? Same scam, different angle.
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rustygumbo
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posted on January 30, 2004 12:15:53 PM new
I had a similar situation, except it was reverse. I had a seller who sold me packing labels. It was a Dutch auction, and I bought two. I waited and waited, nothing came. I emailed them, and they claimed it was shipped and gave me the confirmation number through UPS. UPS showed the label was printed, and a tracking number issued, but that the sender never shipped the item. I emailed the seller and told them it was never shipped. They then sent it via Airborne Ground, one package with only one box of labels. After two weeks, I decided to file the claim. Paypal said that they don't get involved in the realm of the contents, but rather that it was delivered.
I would check her past feedback and see if she had any similar issues in the past. It should show up there, and if it is, then other sellers will see it when you add the info to her feedback. Stand your ground. A neg isn't the end of the world. It just shows your human whether you were in the right or in the wrong.
Here is a suggestion:
If you are the seller accepting paypal: If buyer want two items packaged together, they have to pay for it in one payment. One Payment = One Box = One Confirmation. Two payments for one package, and you could get screwed without the second confirmation.
If your the buyer, I suggest paying for each item seperately if you are concerned about the seller using the loophole in their advantage.
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ebayvet
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posted on January 30, 2004 01:45:51 PM new
If I was absolutely sure I sent both items, I would hold that line. You have delivery confirmation, that should be enough to deal with paypal. If she does a credit card chargeback, it should be against paypal and would probably shut down her account. I would also forward the insurance slip to her to deal with, hope it works out.
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auctionACE
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posted on January 30, 2004 02:27:59 PM new
The photo gambit may detract a few scammers but a dishonest seller could photograph a box with two items and address label attached and then remove one item and seal up the box.
Paypal lets seller/buyers combine items into one PP transaction and that combined PP transaction would need only one DC but two seperate PP transactions might need two DCs. The solution may be to refund both of their transactions and send a single PP payment request for both items.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
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BIGPEEPA
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posted on January 30, 2004 09:16:56 PM new
Hello All, Thanks to all that replied to this post. I read a lot of good ideas. I think I will send this Gal a copy of the insurance and see what happens. Each little box was rolled up in bubble wrap. I want to think what happened is in her excitement opening her package she only unpacked one box and forgot she bought two boxes. I think she threw the package away with her second box in it. I am betting she now wants me to pay for her mistake. I sure feel an undeserved NEG coming from this mess. Like I said before she is being very nice so far, but she is (gently pointing her finger at me) so we will see how long being nice last.
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auctionACE
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posted on January 31, 2004 12:44:02 AM new
Sounds like a good theory on what may have happened to the lost box.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
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