posted on July 15, 2004 04:54:59 PM new
Something has me and some of my regular buyers baffled.
With a previous round of auctions, I had a guy who was bidding aggressively on a number of my father's model railroading books. He won three and paid a good price for them. He lost out on another, but we had a duplicate - an earlier edition that was much thinner, but I asked him if he wanted it included in his box as a free bonus extra.
The following week he flipped it right out there for an auction, and it sold for $13.50. I was a little taken aback since it was meant as a gift, but still, I figured he was an avid hobbyist who sold stuff on eBay to make money for his hobby.
But he's since re-listed two of the other books with minimum bids of 99 cents. One has already closed at $2.29. With that one, including the one-third of the shipping cost, his investment to buy it from me was about $18. (I'm sure that it's our copy because of a small, but distinctive, nick along the bottom edge of the front cover.) With the other one, his total investment including shipping would be about $15. It's sitting "out there" for 99 cents with no bids so far. That one, too, I can tell it's our copy and not a lesser copy where he might have been buying ours as an upgrade.
The first book is a great book, but it was also published in mass quantities, so it's not the least bit rare on eBay. It isn't hard to find a much cheaper copy in the same condition. It's one of those books that's almost always available on eBay. The second book is a great book, too, but somewhat obscure. The author was a one-time author who was known to the readers of one of the big model railroading magazines years ago, but that was a while back. The author's name is not one of the big "marquee" names in the field. With that one, I bent over backwards to show it in multiple photos and with more of a description, and to place it as part of an organized segment, so it did OK. But the buyer's ad for re-sale is just the standard eBay ad - one photo and a brief description - and going by the page counter, it isn't getting much interest.
From his emails, he seemed like a very bright, together guy - so why buy high and sell low?
I bounced this one off some of my guys and they have the same impression I have - no way could he possibly think he would get more for these books by reselling on eBay, especially since it's so soon after the fact. Summer is the slow season, too. Perhaps in another venue like Amazon and more "in season" in the fall and winter - but now?
He's not using any of my photos or text, so I don't have any objections on that score. I caught on to it because I have more books by the first author, so I still have that author's name plugged into the "favorite searches" mechanism.
There are plenty of model railroading books and magazines that come out of estate sales -- lots of other sellers who upload them in bulk, and since they have no knowledge of the field, they list them across-the-board for 99 cents and "let the market decide."
I could see buying some of those, if you know the market well enough to know the "good ones," and then re-listing them for more in the fall.
The only thing me and my guys can think of is that he was jumping into my auctions and bidding aggressively as a means of gaining attention from my bidders for his own auctions. Going by the page counters, my auctions get a lot more attention than the norm because of the multi-photo spreads and the extensive information I include - for example, the scan of the table of contents.
Any other ideas?
Something about this doesn't quite compute, but we can't quite put a finger on it.
He hasn't made any attempt to buy any of our other stuff off-eBay, so that doesn't seem to be it.
posted on July 15, 2004 05:02:51 PM new
Does he have a new seller account which he's just begun using and is selling your books in it? The only thing I can think of is that he's doing what I'm doing right now, selling a bunch of books at any price just to build up my feedback. HOWEVER, I wouldn't have done that with books I paid a good penny for!
If he knows the books he got from you will sell somewhere for at least some amount, he may need to build up feedback. If this doesn't seem to be the case, he's certifiable!
I know what you're talking about. I buy a lot of popular bestsellers for my mother on both eBay and Amazon, and sometimes, people price those at a very deep discount because they're just getting started.
Not this guy, though.
Also, he's not anywhere in our local area.
So it's not that he wants to make our acquaintance in case we have a lot of other estate stuff for sale as a big lot.
And, he didn't come across as being certifible. Au contraire, he came across in email as being very clear and sharp.
That's why we're all so baffled, including my 85-year-old mother. My mother thinks I should invite him back the next time I do a round of auctions since he bids so aggressively. But it's awesomely weird to see the same books that did so well in my auctions coming right back into the market for 99 cents. It's a weird sort of "deja vu."
Maybe he just likes to jump in and join the bidding when it's competitive - as sport? And he figures he can always resell it later?
posted on July 15, 2004 05:46:15 PM new
Some people do it just for the fun of selling on eBay.
Some people look at their purchase when it arrives, decide they don't like it all that much and put it back up for sale on eBay to recoup whatever they can get.
Whatever. It's his book, he can do as he pleases.
I was a little taken aback since it was meant as a gift
You're not going to go off again about this guy disrespecting your late father's books?
posted on July 15, 2004 05:46:37 PM new
It sounds to me as if he knows what he is buying and believes that he can make his money back plus some. Personally, I do the same thing all the time. I do make WAYYYYYY more than what I purchase them for, but only because I know my category.
Like Diane says, if you know your category very, very well you can buy stuff on eBay and resell it later on for much, much more. Been there, done that.
The key is knowing how to write a good title and description, good pics, etc. Just the normal stuff...
posted on July 15, 2004 07:35:45 PM new
Diane, Lucy -
If he was re-selling them for more, that would make sense.
A dealer jumped in on one of my father's collectible beer cans. I had listed it at $7.99, and he beat out two other bidders to buy it at $11.30. No doubt he intended to re-sell it off eBay. I had seen it listed on another dealer site for $20. But that's OK - he won it fair and square in an open process. There were two other bidders, but they didn't come back at the close or up their proxy bids.
*That* I understand.
Iare - If someone offered me something as a gift and I accepted it with thanks, I wouldn't immediately re-sell it right under their nose - whatever, wherever. Still, I figured he was looking to make some of his money back, to fund the books he bought. Since he paid good money for those, I thought
he wanted those to keep.
It's not that he disliked them when he got them. In fact, with the book he re-sold for $2.29, he touted its "like new" condition.
Usually, my father's books do better - even when they're very common - because my father kept everything in top condition, and I work hard at getting good, multiple photos for the layout.
Lucy, I'm not looking to buy any more of these books for re-sale because I still have a lot to list on eBay, including a lot of the model railroading magazines, which I'm just starting to work on.
My experience is that the market for this stuff on eBay is pretty efficient. This is one of those specialized niches where a lot of people seem to know the going rate on eBay versus what they could pay at a train show or a swap meet.
The beer cans are more of a wild card because they have cross-over value on eBay - someone might not be a beer can collector at all, but a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, or even a collector of anything and everything with a frog on it.
What has me concerned - the more I think about it - is that if this guy keeps jumping into my auctions and running them up, including the ones he doesn't win - but then my regular bidders come to realize that he's buying strictly for re-sale on eBay - wait a week or two and it will roll around again - this time, for a minimum bid of 99 cents vs. my usual minimum of $4.99 or $8.99 - why should anyone bid on my auctions in the first place?
posted on July 15, 2004 08:11:00 PM newThe only thing me and my guys can think of is that he was jumping into my auctions and bidding aggressively as a means of gaining attention from my bidders for his own auctions.
Now, that's just silly to think he's doing something like that.
Any other ideas?
Something about this doesn't quite compute, but we can't quite put a finger on it.
Maybe he read the books and just wants to get rid of them again. I think you're making way too big of a deal out of this.
Are you upset because your buyer is selling the "gift" book?
Nah - I figured he was selling it to offset the money he'd just spent on the other three. Tacky, but logical.
What raised my flag is re-listing two out of three for much, much less than he spent. The second one is still "out there," but I and my guys don't see where there's any possiblity that he's going to get back more than he paid, if he does get any bids.
Kiara, these are not the kinds of books where you read them cover-to-cover like a novel and then re-sell them. They're how-to manuals that people keep and use for their model railroading projects - reference books.
As to why I'm concerned - my concern is in the last graph of my last posting. It's the impact it could have on my future auctions if this kind of behavior recurs on an ongoing basis.
posted on July 15, 2004 08:40:25 PM new
How much stuff has he bought on eBay recently? I don't know his ID, obviously, so I can't check it.
Maybe his wife put her foot down and ordered him to sell all the stuff he'd bought on eBay lately. To make her wrong, he could have started them low with a bare bones descriptions.
He shows her what the items are closing at that he has listed: "See honey, it's not doing well right now. I should hold onto to the rest of this stuff."
All that feed back may be as a buyer, not as a seller? I can't access it, so don't know. He may have had buyer's remorse and is not a very good seller. In any case, we can all agree he went in the hole.
Roz,
You can't expect anyone else to have any emotional attachment to an object that you have an attachment to. Once you give something away, it becomes theirs to do with as they will. They may act stupidly or irrationally.
posted on July 15, 2004 09:12:39 PM newWhat has me concerned - the more I think about it - is that if this guy keeps jumping into my auctions and running them up,
Is he bidding on your auctions again now or was it a one-time buy?
Was this the same guy that you posted about the end of May?
He's definitely on balance a seller in this category and a PowerSeller, too. He buys some stuff, but not a lot.
He seems to start just about all of his books at 99 cents - seems that's not unusual for him. So I don't think it was a nagging wife or buyer's remorse.
If it was one book, then I'd think that he looked it over in real time, and it wasn't what he was looking for, so he decided to re-sell it. But it's now up to 3 out of 4.
Kiara,
I haven't done any big rounds of auctions since the last one right before Memorial Day. I work full-time, so I'm a small-time, occasional seller. I was thinking about doing more towards the end of this month, though July might be a bit "off season" for this stuff, and I might wait until the fall.
A lot of my buyers ask to be put on my notification list since I'm not in the market very often, and they do indeed respond and bid when I email them with new auctions. This guy has asked to be on my mailing list - but do I want to notify him?
No, this is not the guy from May. That worked out OK. He was an older guy who just wasn't very good with email and didn't have much of an understanding of how eBay works. When he realized that he'd gotten me upset - and why - he understood it perfectly since he has his own concerns about what will happen to his collection after he's gone. I gave him two extra books from the slush pile, so even if he already had the first book, he got some good stuff out of it, and he's emailed me to tell me how much he's enjoying the extra books.
And since then eBay has instituted the procedure I was talking about - the immediate cancellation by mutual agreement, with no penalty to the bidder.
But, at the moment, I'm in the rather odd positon where I could quite probably snipe back one of my own books for 99 cents. Even with the shipping cost, I'd still be ahead by $10.
Basically, I'm trying to get something of a fix on this before I proceed with any more auctions because the whole thing just seems so strange. I'm also swapping emails about this with some of my regular buyers who also sell on eBay once in a while. They know the market in this segment inside-out, and they find it very odd, too. They haven't seen anything like it before, either.
But I've come to the conclusion that I can't allow this guy to jump in and bid my books up to a premium - discouraging some of my regular buyers - knowing that he's going to turn right around and re-list them at a "bargain bin" 99 cents.
I think what's going on is that he thinks he'll out-bid my "real" bidders and buy my books - which are getting a lot of page views because of the multi-photo layouts, extensive descriptions, etc. - and then, when he re-lists *the very same books* at 99 cents - the auctions are so close together, it's clear it's the same books; if I can make that he's re-selling the books he just bought from me, other people will be able to do that, too - the 99 cents will set off a feeding frenzy - compared to what he just paid, it looks like an incredible bargain, and he'll make more.
Of course, it hasn't been working out that way. As someone noted, right now, he's losing his shirt.
But if people see this guy bidding on my auctions on a regular basis - and they're sharp enough to realize that he's buying strictly for re-sale on eBay; wait a week or two, and he'll re-list my books at his usual 99-cent starting bid - the bidding level on my auctions will deflate.
So, over the last couple of days, I've decided to block this guy from future auctions.
Basically, what I think he's trying to do is to capture market share. I'm not any sort of big league PowerSeller - far from it. But when I sell, I sell well. A lot of my auctions have multiple bidders, and most of my bidders have 100% positive feedback. It's an audience any seller would want.
But I can't let this guy use my auctions to undercut my auctions.
There could be a lot of reasons as to why he did what he just did. But I've been bouncing this one off some of my buyers, and they, too, have the same gut sense - block this guy, or he could be disruptive to my future auctions.
posted on July 16, 2004 10:41:49 AM new
[quote]Basically, what I think he's trying to do is to capture market share[/quote]
Now, that make complete sense! I've not sold in a category that had stiff competiton for limited resources. That situation had not occurred to me. Block his a$$!.
LOL!
[ edited by meadowlark on Jul 16, 2004 10:42 AM ]
What I've been grappling with is that it's also counterintuitive for me to block someone who bid well, bid high, paid promptly, and left wonderful feedback - just as its so seemingly counterintuitive for someone to buy high and immediately re-sell for pennies on the dollar.
Basically, I'm a little fishie who had a big fish drop into its tank. At first, the big fish looked like a nice, new friend. Then the fish smiled ...
posted on July 16, 2004 01:35:42 PM new
#1 He's competing with your other buyers.
#2 He's outbidding them.
#3 He pays promptly.
#4 He leaves Positive Feedback.
Send him my way, I'd love to sell to him!
He takes the stuff he just bought from you and re-lists for 10% to 20% of your usual minimum bids - never mind the winning bids, your minimum bids.
So, what happens to your auctions over time, once your bidders catch on to the fact that they don't have to buy your stuff from you; they can wait a little and buy your stuff from someone else for a fraction of what your auctions usually go for?
Meadow,
... but no idea that I would know. For what he paid for these books, I never would have expected him to have a go at re-selling them on eBay. I caught on only because I still have "favorite searches" running on two of the authors. I did a big segment on track design, but the same authors also published key books on wiring - I've yet to do the wiring segment.
I opened one of those "search" emails one day and caught the gallery photo of the book I'd just given him as a gift.
posted on July 16, 2004 02:25:04 PM new
What am I missing here?
He only bid on your auctions the one time, right? Then he put the two books plus the freebie one back up for sale, right?
People resell stuff all the time and many don't care if they get back their original investment, they just don't care.
You do seem to be a bit upset that he sold the one that was a gift but people can do whatever they want with any item that is given to them. You also seem to be creating scenarios in your own mind about what this guy intends to do down the road when there is hardly a track record to go on.
posted on July 16, 2004 03:36:18 PM new
rozrr is a very intelligent and extremely analytical person who probably wants to understand everything that's going on. Those traits are a big asset in some professions, but on eBay, you kind of have to resign yourself to the fact that some things cannot be meaningfully analyzed.
posted on July 16, 2004 05:06:00 PM new
I agree with teacher on this, and the reason you can't draw the right conclusion and know you have it right, is because you are trying to get an answer without all the data necessary.
Have you thought about just asking the guy. I'm not saying to do that, but it is an option. If you do, take the tack that you are just mystified. Don't present the guesses we have made, just politely ask. You may or may not get the truth.
posted on July 17, 2004 12:01:46 PM new
Max, you asked:
Do you have more of each of the books that he bought?
No, these are my father's books, so it's not like I have a dozen copies of each, though my father has different editions of some books.
However, I still have a lot of very similar books - some by the same authors - some videos, and a ton of railroading magazines. Since I'm a part-time, occasional seller, I'll be dealing with this for a while.
And, this guy has shown a definite interest in our stuff and in coming back for future auctions. He bid on a number of my auctions - won some, didn't win others - but it's all stuff in the same category.
Meadow, you asked:
Have you thought about just asking the guy?
I think if I asked him straight-out, he'd be startled that I knew and embarrassed, and he wouldn't respond or the response would be unpleasant.
My neighbor who's a big buyer on eBay was over last night for dinner, and looked at some of this. She thinks the attraction is not the books or the bidders, but the "action" on some of my auctions in the end zone. She thinks that I happened to attract someone from the same category who's functioning with a gambler's mentality, jumping in on the auctions that were already "hot" out of macho and testosterone and a desire to beat the other guys.
And, she pointed out - if he re-lists for 99 cents, he expects to sell for more, and if he doesn't, that's a gamble, too - a bet and a bad bet, but gamblers are known for making bad bets and losing their shirts.
She thinks that the irrationality is the irrationality of a gambler, and I think she might be right.
iareateacher:
A lot of my father's collectibles are in low-ticket categories where the sell-through rate isn't that great - maybe 10% to 30% - and the competition is ferocious. A lot of people have a lot of the same stuff, spinning by on the cheap with no bids - to the point where it can be scary.
Some of our stuff is easy to sell, but if all of it was easy, I wouldn't have to give it so much thought. With a lot of this stuff, though, it takes a lot of strategy to beat the odds. I've been pretty successful at it - so far. But I'm always worried that my luck is going to run out.
Also - It's clear from my ads that I'm selling stuff from my father's collections, so the great, great majority of my bidders treat me as if I was one of their kids or their wives, dealing with their collections after they're gone - world's greatest guys,
and I also hear from a lot of the wives. But there's that tiny percentage of people who want to somehow take advantage of you if they can "make" you as a small-time seller in an estate situation and a woman in a "guy" section. So, I'm always in "watch your back" mode.
Kiara, you said:
People resell stuff all the time and many don't care if they get back their original investment, they just don't care.
I did the stats this morning. I've since established that it's not 3 out of 4 - it's 4 out of 4.
Of the 3 books he bought, one is still "out there" for 99 cents, with no bids. But presuming that that one gets at least one bid at 99 cents, his total for the 3 on resale would be $8.78. His eBay fees on the 3 auctions - including 75 cents for the gallery photos - about $2.25, leaving a net net of $6.53. Versus what he paid for the 3 books including shipping, his loss is $34.38.
So, he did indeed lose his shirt, and if that was that, I'd say he'd be disinclined to try it again.
But I also gave him that free bonus book, and it sold $13.50 - reducing his loss to about $20.
Kiara, you also said:
You also seem to be creating scenarios in your own mind about what this guy intends to do down the road ...
Oh, he'll be back, if I don't block him. My ads also state that my father's library starts in the mid-1930's - translation, lots and lots of stuff, and I can't possibly do it all on eBay.
I always have a slush box of extras for my top bidders and also for the guys who don't have a lot of money for their hobbies. In part, I view the auctions as a means of distributing the extra stuff. A lot of it is esoteric stuff where you have to make a match with someone's interests.
The freebie was meant as an incentive for him to look for future auctions - now I regret giving him that incentive.
My mother is saying: "Don't give anyone any more freebies," but that's a definite part of the program.
I sort of resent that this guy's behavior has made me more hesitant about the freebies. My freebies make people very happy, and I like using my father's stuff to make other people - who are just like my father - happy.
posted on July 17, 2004 02:04:30 PM new
Let’s review….Buyer wins three of your books. He bids & wins them at such a good price, you give him a fourth book. Within a week or two, buyer lists these books on eBay for next to nothing and collectively speaking, looses his shirt.
Hmmmmmm. Why would he list them so cheaply? Perhaps he read them and didn’t feel the need to keep them. Perhaps he didn’t realize when he bid that he had them already. Or maybe he wanted to compare yours to his and keep whichever were in better condition. Or maybe he was going to give them as a gift but changed his mind. Or....
Amazingly, you’re about ready (if you haven’t already) to block him. After all, how dare he bid a good amount for these books! How dare he pay you timely! How dare he then list these for next to nothing! This bidder MUST have an evil motive. Bad, bad bidder!!!
My initial inclination is that he probably had a valid reason for reselling these on eBay, which had nothing to do with you. That said, if this was the 2nd or 3rd time this happened then yes, I would be concerned. But why get your panties in a wad over this one transaction and write paragraph after paragraph after paragraph here attempting to analyze what his motives are? Move on! You’re assuming WAY too much with just ONE transaction. Be grateful that you sold these for such a nice price!
