posted on July 19, 2004 10:40:41 PM new
Need advice. I have a bidder that has not responded to any of my emails from a July 1 ending auction. I just went into her feedback and she has a -3. Now if I go and leave a negative feedback for her will she automatically be NARU? I did file for FVF but she hasn't responded to that either through eBay.
What is your opinion of this new system eBay has on NPB. It seems like sellers now have to jump through hoops to get their fees back. It almost seems like ebay doesn't want to refund. It also seems like eBay is blaming the seller for a non pay bidder. They talk about seller harassment. Now that is a joke. When a bidder bids and does not pay after many notices I suppose eBay will say that is harrassment
Why do you think they changed that system? I guess if it a broke you replace it. Oh well waiting for an answer to my first paragraph.
posted on July 19, 2004 11:04:07 PM new
The suspension is not automatic when they become -4. Someone has to notify Ebay. Once they see it, they will suspend. Email them with the notice as soon as you leave the neg. Hopfully they will act on it and dump her before she has a chance to retaliate. It's also possible your FVF refund will be #3 for her and she will be suspended immediately.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on July 20, 2004 12:45:37 AM new
No, you don't have to notify ebay. Just file for your FVF and ebay will take care of it.
Ebay has dumped some of my NPB's so fast I didn't have time to leave a neg.
posted on July 20, 2004 04:12:55 AM new
The point is: file for your NPB right away, then leave feed back if she is not NARU yet.
You said " They talk about seller harassment."
Who is the "they" you are referring to?
I agree with most of what you say, but repeatedly asking for payment is considered harrassment only by the deadbeat!
If you ever watch "Judge Judy" on TV, a lot of people (defendants) who are subjected to collection phone calls by businesses or individuals claim they were "harrassed" simply because the issuer of the credit called numerous times and payment was demanded. The defendant uses that as the justification for not paying their debt. Judge Judy gives them her look that says they are idiots and yells at them that they don't have a leg to stand on.
By phone, you are limited to a certain number of calls to any one indvidual per day when calling for collections. I don't know about email. As long as one is demanding payment, not threatening to take wrongful/illegal actions, Ebay doesn't care.
Yes, they intentionally make it difficult to get a refund.
posted on July 20, 2004 05:03:43 AM new
Yes libra63,i agree, it sure seems that thats what ebay is now up too! what a sham! make the seller who has invested time and talent to list,gets a dead beat and ebay wants to make you waste more time, pull your hair out
with the new frustrating format. what a nigthmare!!!!
posted on July 20, 2004 05:10:54 AM new
I think that the harder the process for getting fvf's refunded, the more sellers with not bother with it. Not me! I will keep filing. I do find that filing on Vendio is a pain, looking up reference # etc., and unless it's for a worthwhile amount, I don't bother.
Sorry about your troubles! eBay has no business referencing harrassment. If it were a crime, I know of a lot of bill collectors that would be in hot water. As far as I know, the only time it is a crime is once the person in debt has filed bankruptcy (or of course, if there are threats involved). It is only then that the callers are ordered to stop calling and sending notices.
eBay is probably tired of refunding money. Too bad. They should better screen people who sign up. It should be their problem and they should fix it because it has become our problem as well. There have been many good ideas on these boards on how eBay could avoid all these bidders who sign up just to create havoc. I've noticed that they've not implemented a one of them. So what else is new?
Get your fees back from eBay and neg this person. It's obvious they have no intention of paying anyone. It sounds like a couple of bidders I have had in the past.
Cheryl
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
posted on July 20, 2004 06:27:58 AM new
What Libra is referring to is this clause on the new Report an Unpaid Item form:
Please note:• Intimidating your buyer into completing a transaction may be cause for your suspension.
There actually was a similar threat on the old Non-Paying Bidder form but I think most of us never really read the text on that page...too much of a hurry to get all those NPBs filed and move on.
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posted on July 20, 2004 07:38:36 AM new
Yes, intimidating a buyer (which entails some form of threat, stated or implied) would definitely be a wrong action, and could result in suspension.
Stating to a buyer that you will follow all of eBay's guidelines for reporting non-payment is not considered intimidation, even if one emailed the buyer daily for a few days. One could even include the NPB steps, cut and pasted directly from eBay's help pages. I have found this very effective when dealing with newbies, especially when they read the part about the 3 strikes.
I do the above in such a fashion as not to make them wrong, but gently educate them. But I first email 3 days after auction for them to respond (as required in my terms) by email to EOA notice and to let me know which form of payment they prefer to use. That first one is done in extremely friendly fashion, with no Ebay quotes, just a friendly reminder.
I don't email them daily until it gets to 7 days after the auction, then send it 3 days in a row.
My attitude in the emails is that I'd hate to see them penalized by eBay and perhaps they overlooked handling their payment. I practice very pleasant customer relations until and unless they get combative. At 10 days, I file NPB, do the FVF, etc. Sometimes I neg, somtimes not. If I do neg, I have found I am very much more skilled than any buyer in wording effectively without coming across as cranky or compative, even though I may be PO'd.
But the point I'm trying to make is that to intimidate means:
1. To make timid; fill with fear.
2. To coerce or inhibit by or as if by threats
posted on July 20, 2004 07:55:15 AM new
eBay's own communications contain threats, as in "If you accumulate 3 unpaid item strikes, your eBay account may be suspended".
(I am paraphrasing; I don't have the exact wording in front of me.)
You apparently see some sort of crystal-clear distinction between a warning and a threat.
I am here to tell you that lots of people don't, and that group of people includes both sellers and deadbeats.
posted on July 20, 2004 08:13:02 AM new
Words have very specific meanings/concepts. As a teacher, implied by your ID here, I expect you are quite familiar with that concept.
Threat:
1.An expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment.
2.An indication of impending danger or harm.
3.One that is regarded as a possible danger; a menace.
Warning:
1.An intimation, threat, or sign of impending danger or evil.
2.a.Advice to beware.
2.b.Counsel to desist from a specified undesirable course of action.
3.A cautionary or deterrent example.
Something, such as a signal, that warns
Yes, they are similar concepts, but not he same. There is also the intent of the person writing the message to consider.
I don't expect to get your agreement. I just disagree that one word or concept equals another just because they are similar.
Trying to get someone to do something by warning them is not necessarily intimidation, but it can be.
Examples:
If you don't move back from the stove, it will burn you. (warning)
If you don't move back from the stove, I'll make sure it burns you.(threat)
The same applies to how a seller approaches the buyer. Ebay recognizes that. Most of the rest of us do too.
Are you telling me that your "polite" NPB reminders always create a positive reaction in your deadbeats? That they don't ever feel threatened? Because I don't believe that. I think that no matter how rational your communication is, some people are going to take it as a threat.
But, since you're making the distinction here, I want a specific example of an intimidating communication.
Because the way I see it, eBay can define anything they want as "intimidation".
posted on July 20, 2004 08:27:10 AM new
One last effort and then I am done.
A threat is in the eye of the beholder, or put another way, the person who feels they are being threatened is the one who lodges the complaint.
I can take your "warning" example and present it in such a way that it can be perceived as a threat...especially if you could have turned the stove off so it wouldn't burn anyone but you want this person to "learn a lesson" so you leave it on.
Then "If you don't move back from the stove, it will burn you" is a threat. In truth, you've provided one of the primary methods used by abusers to pretend to their victims that the abuser has nothing to do with the abuse.
"If you don't stop that, this belt will make contact with your backside."
Conversely, your threat example is just as full of holes. According to your format, this is a threat:
"If you don't pay me for this item, I'll turn you in to eBay as a Non-Paying Bidder"
However, this is a perfectly acceptable warning for a seller to give.
No, it's not a clear-cut distinction and you have failed to prove that it is. Until eBay provides more information about what it considers intimidation to be, sellers are right to be concerned.
Yes, I do get favorable response to my reminders! I take care to craft them in such a way that the buyer does not feel threatened. Of course, there are crazy buyers online as well that will misinterpret anything anyone says. I have only one neg, for refusing to accept a check after the sale, when the buyer refused to follow the terms.
I guess we can just agree to disagree on the above discussion. I don't feel a need to prove myself right, or to make you wrong, or convince you of my viewpoint. I believe each person using his own judgement and acting in whatever manner they think is appropriate.
posted on July 20, 2004 10:26:28 AM new
What I do is the 1st notice is my WBN. Says Thanks for your winning bin on (product) If you are paying instantly by paypal there is no need to respond. If you are paying by Personal Check, Money order or Delaying a PayPal payment I would like you to email me within 3 days with your name and address so that I can get your(item) Ready. Thanks again for your winning bid.
The next follow up was the ebay reminder notice. I sen t that 5 days after auction end. Then I sent one more about 7 days later explaining that she won my item and if there is a problem please get back to me as I would like to work things out with you. Since you are a new eBay member and you already have -2 negatives, (when she bid she had -1. I did notice that before the auction ended) you had a -1 feedback but since you bid on my auction I thought you wanted the (item) Please get back to me to work things out. I received no response.
Since I have changed ISP's it is difficult for me to find emails since I have 4 places I have to go. Never change ISP's when auctions are running. Take my advice it doesn't work. I learned a valuable lession and I am passing it on to you guys. Well It doesn't amount to much so I will wait until I feel like it or someone else gives the last negative feedback.
Thanks all
[ edited by Libra63 on Jul 20, 2004 10:28 AM ]
[ edited by Libra63 on Jul 20, 2004 10:30 AM ]
Oops! I meant to say as well that I send a WBN immediately after the auction. What you are doing seems normal.
I assume that none of the emails bounced back, or you would have said something. It could still not actually be getting through to the correct address. I have seen buyers go into neg feedback because the slllers, one after another, could not actually reach them. The buyer changed their email address, but didn't change it on eBay. I'm sure many of us have had that happen.
If the price of the item/profit will sustain the expense of a long distance phone call, I may call them on the phone.
[ edited by meadowlark on Jul 20, 2004 03:05 PM ]
posted on July 20, 2004 02:26:24 PM new
I agree that some people will take any message the wrong way. But I have found that for the most part if the emails are professional and emotion free that you get a positive response from buyers, even the ones that are reluctant to pay. A good friend of mine showed me how he words his final email before he negs NPB's. It works like magic some of them pay up right away some of them don't. But none of them retaliate to the neg.(Non Payers) Both my friend and I use the same wording and it has never failed to prevent a retaliatory neg. (touch wood) So I also think that if you word things correctly it can make a difference most of the time. JMHO.
Regards,
Adrian
[ edited by zircon4 on Jul 20, 2004 02:28 PM ]
posted on July 20, 2004 06:06:01 PM new
Here is my e-mail I send to deadbeats. I don't consider this harrassing. I send it only once. Then if no response, I do the NPB and FVF and move on.
Hello,
I haven't heard from you as of yet on your winning bid for the auction of the XXXXXXXXX auction number 1234567890. If you could please e-mail me back to let me know when I can expect to see the payment, I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Stonecold613
