posted on June 28, 2005 02:11:08 PM new
For such a simple thing, it's amazing how many factors there are to consider in what makes up a postcard's or album's value. I won't try to cover or even say I know them all, but here's just a few. Feel free to add your own!
In the front or image side, first is it b/w or color? Real photo or printed? A rarer private low run or a high run stock image? What does the image show? How many different people/collectors would it cross appeal to? Is it pre or post WW2, the dividing line for many collectors - WW1 for more advanced collectors. The original portrayal of an image or a generation's later reprint of the same? The former is almost always etter that the latter.
Then there's the back. Who made the card? Big name stock post card printer, studio photographer, private individual? The lower run, private cards can often be the best. Was it mailed, to or from by anyone famous? Does it have a cancel from a short-lived post office, a field cancel during a war? Was it mailed from a ship on the open seas (pacquebot - sp?), "end-of-the-line" during rail construction (this can be $100's)? Interesting machine cancel slogan?
What the image shows is often the most important thing for many collectors, but many also collect the various cancels. Having album material stuck to the back will only slightly affect the former's value, but may greatly lower the dollar value if a card's value were to be in the back, ie. covered/damaged rare cancel/s. Yes the stamp being present/undamaged can be relevent in this case too as the stamp collectors like stamps with (rare po) multiple cancels "franking" or crossing into the stamp itself.
It just goes on and on, especially when one gets into what the image shows.
posted on June 28, 2005 03:04:26 PM new
And after you have considered all of these things it is still, at best, a crap shoot whether or not it will sell on ebay and for how much! Having the right person (or better yet TWO or MORE people) ONLINE and FIND the card is the key on ebay. You can have the most desirable card in the world listed for $.99 and if you don't list it RIGHT, you could have it go unsold and probably unviewed. I have sold chrome (post 1950) postcards for $100++ and the most beautiful circa 1900 cards go unsold at $7.
After 3 years of selling postcards fulltime and over 15,000 sales, I am still trying to figure out the RIGHT way to list on ebay. Just as soon as I think I have it all figured out the moon goes into a different phase or Jupiter lines up with Mars or WHO KNOWS WHAT...it changes! At least it never gets boring!
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posted on June 28, 2005 05:41:32 PM new
I don't see how you guys can do it - sounds like a lot to remember.
I have a VERY old postcard which is pre- 1890's - undivided back with a silhouette of a little boy in tails and a top hat. It has the silhouette artist's name too. I got it by mistake at an estate sale. How could I find out about value on something like this?? I've try to research the artist but never found anything on him.
posted on June 28, 2005 05:55:15 PM new
Lady- pre-1890's would make it VERY early! The first US postcards were issued in 1893 from the Columbia Exposition. It must be European. What is the name of the artist and what does it say on the back?
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posted on June 28, 2005 06:13:01 PM new
I can't put my hands on it at the moment but will look for it tomorrow. I've had it for at least 10 years and I did some research back then that helped me date it - or at least I think I dated it correctly. Seems like there is nothing on the back but the artist and the company in small letters on the edge and the front has the silhouette and you would have written around it. It was never mailed. I think it is German but I'll let you know for sure tomorrow.
posted on June 28, 2005 06:23:28 PM new
It's easy to tell the difference between a worthless and a valuable post card. If Sparkz finds it at a yard sale, it's worthless. If Neglus finds it at a yard sale, it'll probably bring between $75.00 and $150.00 on Ebay.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on June 28, 2005 06:40:38 PM new
LOL Sparkz - I WISH!!! I've had my share of worthless ones too! Most of you would shudder to see the low postcard sell through rate!
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posted on June 28, 2005 07:15:22 PM new
bc and all, Interesting discussion. I have been buying,collecting and selling cards for years and a few things come to mind. All cards do have a market that are not mass produced(common),unless they are special in some other way as was mentioned above. For the most part the older the more valuable,again with exceptions. All my better linen Diners sell for over $100. Wish I could buy more. The most important keyword in the listing besides Town is County. Few bother using it. Big mistake. Most of the large dealers who sell view cards of major states sort and sell by county. I love to go to the York,Pa show each November as I can pick the hot counties and buy. I rarely buy on the net anymore,but use my database of past sales to buy the hot areas at shows. I still love to buy selectively at live auctions.The more we know about the area we specialize the better we will be at buying better cards and achieving higher sell thru rates and profits.
posted on June 28, 2005 07:59:04 PM new
Awesome numbers neglus I'll gladly bow to your expertise as to Lady's card. I'm mainly a collector with a local focus when it comes to cards, and a small one at that.
I've bought more than sold nicer cards, absolutely nothing on the scale of the completed search below.
Amidst the huge card lots there are some single cards getting impressive prices. THE (more on this below) $1800 early Hawaii card, the $1000 Titanic survivor-signed card, and the $700 "The china Mr.chang picture postcard". (actually, the seller is hilarious. All his cards start out or have "The" in them, as in the China, the Korea - as if there are others? No not that other China...THE China) Many more, all great, and I've none of 'em.
Had a quick look at their completed sales and s/he is going through a super China collection that I'd faint to discover at a yard sale. Great sell-through too, but easy to see they're not just average $1 cards.
[ edited by bcpostcards on Jun 28, 2005 08:31 PM ]
posted on June 28, 2005 08:10:22 PM new
BC - I got chastised yesterday for long URL - can you edit yours to make it smaller? Go to www.tinyurl.com and past that url in the box provided - they will give you one that won't make the thread so wide that one has to scroll to read it.
You DO realize that the search you brought up only shows the postcards that use the word "postcard" in the title - just the tip of the iceberg. I rarely put "postcard" in the title unless I have room.
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posted on June 28, 2005 08:27:02 PM new
hi chuckatcdcards:
All my better linen Diners sell for over $100
I've seem some cards listed as "roadside americana". Would diners fall under that heading, or would that be too general?
The most important keyword in the listing besides Town is County.
Great point! As a Canadian (eh...ok I said it ) it would take me years to have a chance of incorporating counties routinely and seamlessly into a listing. If you ever headed north of the line, I think you'd buy very well at a sale on that basis alone. I think most card sellers here, even the larger ones, just sort by state, that's if they don't just lump it into "USA". Guess I'm now going to have to find a good atlas that shows state counties to help me out with that.
posted on June 28, 2005 08:34:19 PM new
neglus: Thank you!!!
I've seen that tiny url deal off and on but never knew how to use it. I've now bookmarked the site for future use. A great one it is too.
Re my search, I do realize. Only meant it as a general example. Prolly wouldn't have seen "The china" otherwise.
[ edited by bcpostcards on Jun 28, 2005 08:44 PM ]
posted on June 28, 2005 08:39:54 PM new
I would think some of the Postcards that would do well would be of places like Atlantic City as it was before the two piers were destroyed. Also a lot of other places like Daytona Beach that have really changed over the years. Most areas in Florida are totally different than they were in the 1950's which is the way I like to remember those places. I used to love to go to Miami when I was a kid. Couldn't horse whip me to go there now.
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Two men sit behind bars,one sees mud the other sees stars.
posted on June 28, 2005 08:53:02 PM new
Thanks BC!! Much better!
MAH - I do sell a lot of Florida postcards ( I have 546 in my store!) - there were SO MANY that I rarely see duplicates. Lots of people collect mom & pop beachfront motels - even the grand Miami hotels! Panama City cards can be in great demand - ditto Fort Lauderdale, Ft Myers,...St Augustine cards don't sell very well. Personally, I love the 1950s motel & restaurant cards (the tackier the better).
Chuck - I never thought about counties before (except obvious ones like Westchester County NY). I don't think counties are as important nationwide as they may be "back East".
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posted on June 28, 2005 10:34:03 PM new
sparkz: It's weird how one almost never sees any volume of cards at yard sales (at least where I am).
I'm guessing your average householder doesn't think their postcards are worth anything and lumps them in with their old family letters as having no commercial value. I've specifically asked at estate sales about old cards (actually not just cards) and have had people say "you want those old things? We had a bunch but we already threw them out". Gngngng. [scared2]
In those cases, I do make a point of looking at their, uh, "refuse compartments" to see what else they thought was only worth tossing and have been thus rewarded enough to continue to do so, despite some odd looks from those not in the know - heh heh).
posted on June 28, 2005 11:07:47 PM new
bcpostcards...I know what you mean. Last summer, I picked up a bag of postcards at a yard sale. Most were cards the person had acquired while traveling in the Western states in the 60's and 70's. Some were picture cards of Casinos in Las Vegas that have since been bulldozed and replaced by mega resorts. I might get around to doing some research and see if there is any nostalgia value in them some day. When I, as a layman, look at them I see a casino where I dropped a hundred bucks, and feel the card should be burned, but then I spot a casino where I won a couple hundred and feel that card is priceless. I would imagine there are a lot of people who have negative thoughts about a scene or picture on a card would want to throw them out, never stopping to think someone may have very positive thoughts about the same card and be willing to pay big bucks for it.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on June 29, 2005 03:12:01 AM new
I love reading this thread ... we still have a couple boxfuls of postcards from my father-in-law's antique shop, and every time I try to start to list them, I get overwhelmed and only list a few, then move on to some other "genre" of things to list.
But the best one I ever sold went for about $170 a couple years ago on ebay ... it was a rppc of a small mining town in CA, called Coram ... (which I think one of you EO'ers have mentioned that town before... like maybe you live near it?)
posted on June 29, 2005 04:38:26 AM new
bc, Neil Hayne from Kingston,ONT lists all his US cards by county. The last time I bought from him was an $1100 sale of Pa only,at the Mary Martin show in Syracuse a few years back. There is another dealer from Toronto who also sorts his cards by County. I only list counties for my specialty (Pa and NY)cards. The other states are a minor part of my business and as you say it would be too much work. But I can assure you that county works. Some steady Pa and NY customers buy repeatedly and sort county in my Vendio, yes Vendio store. Listing counties takes a little extra time, but once you become familiar with the towns its simple and effortless. It is surely much smarter than putting dumb adjectives like "Look" in the title. I still laugh at that. When was the last time any of us sorted or did a search for "Look". Chuck
posted on June 29, 2005 04:53:38 AM new
Neglus, I agree with you that County works best in states with higher populations. Thus the east is probably best. You mentioned Westchester County. And thats an excellent example of why county works. Rye(Playland),Mamoronack,etc are smaller towns that are always Hot. Many of the advanced collectors sort Westchester NY to find them. I have a specialty collection of my birth county in Pa. The dealers who post county definately get more business from me as it would take forever to sort all the small towns around my hometown. greg5166 has a huge collection of Pa cards, my guess close to a million. He sells Pa exclusively on eBay at $10+ but has the cards that demand the price. I wish I had his stock as he never lists county on ebay. But his stock at shows is all listed by county. Oh well rambling on here. Chuck
posted on June 29, 2005 05:50:15 AM new
LOL Chuck - people may not search by "look" but they do LOOK at look. I guess people are as likely to search by look as by the inventory numbers some dealers put in the title. I try to use as many of the 55 title characters as possible and if there are 4 characters left and the card merits it, I type in LOOK or NICE.
Thanks for the tip about including the county. I think I will try it for a month and then check out my ebay keyword sales report to see how many people use it to see if it's worth continuing.
YIKES! I just tried to revise a Sunbury PA postcard listed now - I went to Google to find the county and got totally confused! Looks like there is a Sunbury county, Sunbury is the county seat of Northumberland county but West Sunbury is in Butler County ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Sparkz - if you want me to take those casino cards "off your hands" let me know LOL. Some sell well and some don't.
Marcia - WOW to the mining card - Nice price!
Speaking of searches: It's surprising the number of buyers who search by whole state name vs postal abbreviation (you can understand why Ohio OH Maine ME Oregon OR and Indiana IN buyers do this) and also the word "postcard". There just aren't enough characters in the title and most buyers search title only. I have some regular buyers who search for "DPC" (Detroit publishing), "@nite", "handcolored", "department store", "polynesian restaurant" "1950'S 1960's cars autos automobiles" - some people search for "real photo" while others search "rppc"
....one thing for certain - make a typo in the title of a desirable card and people bid RIGHT AWAY before you can revise LOL
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posted on June 29, 2005 08:34:26 AM new
Neglus, How do you know that people see "look" in the title and "look"? Are they viewing the card because of whats described in the title or because they see the word "Look"? Are you saying that "Look" is a key word often used for searches? If so I guess I need to try it.
As far as putting SKU numbers in a title I do it and have done it since I started on eBay. It comes from my background in dealing with inventory control and systems. In simple terms it is only useful for me or for customers to reference my listings in some cases. Since my business model is built around a very detailed excel data base I must have a means of sorting within the title. All of my postings are imported to vendio from the database. I have never had to retype listing descriptions(when relisting) once they are created. To use your Sunbury,Northumberland Co Pa example. If Sunbury becomes hot or someone wants to buy cards from there,I can easily sort my Sunbury cards,Northumberland County including bordering towns of Shamokin Dam ,Lewisburg etc and within a few minutes post 50-100 or so of them to eBay or offer them as a direct sale to a customer(prefered). Since my cards are sorted by the SKU I just pull the ones very quickly that sell. I agree that I do give up some sort capability with the numbers in the title.
posted on June 29, 2005 08:55:36 AM new
Chuck - No - i'm sure they don't search "look" but when a search yields lots of results they may be tempted to "Look" (maybe it's some kind of sub-conscious obedience thing?)- this is in no way scientific. I do sell a lot of the "look" "nice" and "lovely" title "fillers" (I try to save them for cards I think are above the run of the mill). I don't use "rare" or "mint".
I always think that a lot of the battle in postcard selling is to get buyers to LOOK at your item among the thousands avaiable and the only way to do this is in the title (if you don't want to spring for the gallery view). This of course applies to larger cities - where search results yield MANY items and not the Hastings Nebraskas (my home town) of the world.
I wasn't knocking the SKU #'s in the title - whatever works! I dream of a humongous juke box kind of postcard storage unit where you punch in a number and the postcard is magically pulled for shipping!
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posted on June 29, 2005 09:12:57 AM new
Neglus, Thanks for your candid answer. I know that all people look for key terms in titles and I wish I had the answer as well. Any word can work but I really don't know any way to gauge weather they do or not unless they are words that show in common searches. I can see where certain people,especially if they buy from you regurlarly would look for tips in titles like "look","nice" etc to have them take the next step and view the listing. We all have different approaches in selling postcards and no two of us can completely model each others approaches. A quick look at yours shows that you sell pretty much all over the US and even worldwide. I really don't know if counties will work for you unless you have hot areas where you can concentrate on bordering smaller localities. I sell 95% pre chrome Pa and NY views and County and Town postcard CD's. Good Luck
posted on June 29, 2005 09:48:17 AM new
Just curious, how do you card sellers refer to a card in the title, "post card" or "postcard"? One word or two? It's an age old issue in the china category when it comes to listing teapots or ashtrays.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on June 29, 2005 10:25:16 AM new
I use "postcard" though "post card" is what is printed on the back of most of them. I put "post card" in my description
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posted on June 29, 2005 04:21:49 PM new
estate: try something like this, you can change whatever will work better for you.
Organize the cards into whatever grouping/sequence suits you. Do all your photos of the cards, always keep them in sequence. Now just do all the titles. Write the first sample description (cards usually only need a few lines) then c/p for the second and change whatever info as necessary. And so on for the others. Keep the cards in sequence, labelled by lot, in baggies, in a box, and they'll always be be easy to find for shipping.
It might be an idea to save your cards until you've a bigger lot done, say by state/genre/east/west/whatever. Then you can offer combined shipping for multiple buys.
posted on June 29, 2005 11:08:32 PM new
chuck: I stand corrected re Eastern Cdn. card dealers. I don't buy enough to know any there by name/show. Sounds like they're better organized on US cards than I imagined.
Imagine folks, a million card collection! and the logistics/dedication, not to mention the deniro that must be involved in that adventure. If not eventually museum-bound, one day there's going to one heck of an estate sale. "You want those old things?" won't happen there.
jack: time?
But to get back on what makes a card valuable (yes I know the dealers know this), here's just a few things I can think of (this late) that can appeal to collectors (imho) as far as black and white real photos go. Generally the older, the better:
-early street scenes where store signs can be read (even if a magnifying glass or loupe is needed). Nice for comparison to same street today. Bonus points for ghost or dead towns.
-specific store fronts, and or interior views. The better to see how things were or were done then. ie. saloons, ice cream parlor.
-occupational. Simply, workers at work. The crisper and well portrayed, the better, as would be certain occupations. Factories and wagons as well.
-the first train to ever come into town (usually marked so), railway construction and camps.
-railway depots where the whole station and its name can be seen. I think GTR or is it GNR? can be really good.
-"busy" cards, where big crowds are doing their thing, includes parades, rallies, events, whether circus.
-unions/strikes? I seem to recall a card showing a "martyr" killed during a famous pre-WW1 coal worker strike around these parts got about $600.
-famous sinking, stranded, partially sunk ships/liners. Obviously the Titanic, Empress 0f Ireland and many others.
-Disasters, some, but not necessarily all. I'm not sure, but with the annual output of tornadoes in parts of the US, there might be plenty to go around?
-gold/silver mines, mining and miners. I'm not sure, maybe coal isn't as glamorous.
-pre WW1 sports, almost anything, bonus if famous players, winners with trophy, mining town teams.
posted on June 30, 2005 03:09:46 AM new
BC, I have only delt with about a half dozen Canadian dealers and most really don't have the US cards organized well. Neil,who does maintain well organized stock, actually leaves his US cards in storage in the US and picks them up when he does shows in the US. He has probably had customs problems in the past. But I'm just speculating. What you described as better cards is accurate. The lesson from your list is that to get the higher prices for cards we must buy better cards. Thats why I only buy at shows and auctions. Shows allow you to pick and choose and auctions allow you to acquire lots of cards at bargain prices. Buying on the net is risky and usually expensive. I am shutting things down for summer now but will use my "hit rate" to determine "what cards" get put in my ebay store next fall. After several years of selling on the net my "bad cards" continue to be slow sellers and are not worthy of listing on ebay individually. But,your list is a good example of what will get listed. Chuck
I'll gladly bow to your expertise as to Lady's card. I'm mainly a collector with a local focus when it comes to cards, and a small one at that.
I don't buy enough to know any there by name/show. Sounds like they're better organized on US cards than I imagined.