posted on March 18, 2010 09:41:29 AM
Simply put, file "NOT AS DESCRIBED" gets you a refund. Forget the refund/exchange period you put into your listing.
I just had a buyer claim item not as described. He tried to return it after my return (exchange) period, but because he claimed Item Not as Described he gets to return it for a REFUND.
Basically, I sold a brand new in the box camera to him. Unopened. I had several. He received it on March 10, a week later claimed it doesn't work. I offer a 3 day exchange period.
In order to help him I offered to exchange it for another camera even though it was outside of the 3 days. He would have to cover shipping and return shipping since it was outside of the 3 days. So he filed a Not as Described...
Ebay ruled in his favor in less than 1 day! Seriously... he filed the dispute yesterday at 9:03am. By this morning 6:06am a decision had been made.
By the admission of eBay's own representative, eBay isn't suppose to allow the buyer to escalate the dispute for a week. This bidder did it in a matter of a few hours.
Ebay won't admit it, but it is obvious by their statements- Item NOT As Described is the way out. The only way it doesn't happen is if somewhere in the communication the buyer makes a statement that contradicts their statement... and even then it is a matter of interpretation by eBay.
I don't have a return policy, I have an exchange policy which is fair. 3 Days gives a buyer enough time to determine whether the item is what it should be and is working properly. Not enough time to take it on vacation as a rental. BUT...Ebay allows buyers 45 days to return an item for a FULL REFUND if they claim item is not as described. No verification process, no follow up with the seller to see how the process is being handled. Nothing. NADA.
The thing that bothers me here isn't so much the claims process. It is necessary, however eBay gives buyers the world when they claim "Item NOT as Described". I understand being on the other end of a damaged item, however eBay removes virtually ALL responsibility on the buyer and eBay itself in the transactions. For one thing, forcing sellers to give FULL REFUNDS is wrong, especially when a seller shows he is willing to make the process right and offer a replacement.
45 days is a very long time. Think about it... you have to warranty an item for 45 days. It doesn't really matter that the buyer used it or not. If that shirt gets a hole in the wash, or that purse gets ripped because Jane tore it while it got caught on the car door... ITEM NOT AS DESCRIBED will cover you. This of course is up for interpretation... by eBay!
By comparison, you have 14 days to return a camera to Best Buy. After 14 days, you send it to the manufacturer. The irony is that you don't get to sell your camera for the same price as Best Buy! You lose any and all competitive edge on pricing, return policy, etc.
This has put me over the top. I try to protect myself against fraud, I follow eBay rules, I dot my i's, cross my t's. Yet, no matter what... this company screws you and they know it.
If I find one scratch, fingerprint, one sign of wear on this camera, one piece of paper missing, or if I even find there is nothing wrong with the camera I will be calling eBay and filing a dispute to this.
Yes, I agree to these terms when I list on eBay and as it is, I list/sell 10% of what I used to on eBay. They have put their hands in the cookie jar one too many times. There is a difference between a seller who obviously misrepresented the item and won't accept a return/exchange vs. a seller who is willing to work with the buyer and provide a replacement.
I am furious, and mostly because of the red flags I see here. 1) Item outside of exchange period. 2) Vague description of problem with item. 3) Buyer escalates to dispute immediately... but doesn't contact me during the 1st 3 days regarding problems. 4) Buyer wants a full refund 5) Buyer gets his way in less than 24 hours.
posted on March 18, 2010 09:50:18 AM
Wow, I feel your pain especially since my "purse" person now refiled and claimed "item not as described" although she has already given me + feedback and 5 stars in that category for DSRs (according to her email to me prior to the request fr refund).
This can open a whole can of worms.Buyers can use an item, break an item, substitute an item and we are at their mercy.
posted on March 18, 2010 10:05:15 AM
yes, and the beauty (in ebays favor) is that if they return it to you and the item isn't the same, has been altered, has been used, damaged, etc... or if you find nothing wrong with it you can supposedly file a dispute over the dispute. The problem is that you are at eBay's mercy no matter what.
I noticed the buyer is also a seller and has several listings currently on eBay. Unfortunately, because eBay has changed their photograph formats I can't check the metadata on the images to see what camera took the photographs.
posted on March 18, 2010 10:59:19 AM
The only good thing is since he is also a seller, one day he will get a dose of this own medicine. What goes around, comes around!!
posted on March 18, 2010 11:32:03 AM
he has some negatives as it stands and his DSRs aren't quite stellar.
my gripe is less about him and more about eBay's handling of it. i felt i was being reasonable by meeting him halfway, but he jumped through the loophole eBay creates with this asinine "item not as described" BS they have.
the mere fact that eBay allows buyers to get FULL REFUNDS (including shipping) when a seller is more than willing to replace a defective item seems irrational. that and of course a 45 day period to file a claim.
posted on March 18, 2010 12:03:54 PM
And. . . if an item is brand new in box, and the buyer can't read the directions or put things in working order, what's to stop him from filing "not as described"?? VERY unfair.
_____________________
"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who ***dared to dissent*** from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, ***may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."*** --Eisenhower
posted on March 18, 2010 12:25:47 PM
That is the main problem with selling electronics online. Let him return it at his own cost, and go through the claims process. (although paypal has withheld your funds, his refund isn't automatic)
posted on March 18, 2010 01:01:24 PM
"Let him return it at his own cost, and go through the claims process."
The problem is, as inconvenient as it may seem for him to return it, he will still receive a refund even though I do not offer refunds.
All he has to do is insist on a refund and eBay will give it to him. No questions asked. No input from the seller is considered. As stated previously, I offered to replace it. Ebay should have accepted this as a reasonable solution.
As I pointed out to the CSR, I didn't refuse to cooperate. In fact, the buyer never asked to return it, exchange it, or a refund. I took the initiative of offering an exchange provided he returned it and I was able to conduct the typical verification process that it is the same camera verify the defect, and he covered the costs of shipping b/c it was outside of the 3 day return policy.
It's not like I ignored someone, or refused to do anything. I responded to his messages quickly. He first contacted me on Tuesday afternoon stating the camera didn't work properly. I responded back within a few hours asking what the problem was. By Tuesday evening I knew what the problem was. I emailed him first thing yesterday (Wednesday) and asked him to return it to me for an exchange. He obviously didn't like that answer so he filed a dispute. I responded before noon yesterday. By 3pm he escalated it to a full on dispute. By 6am today, eBay made a decision.
Seems like the whole process was on turbo. I actually woke up this morning with the intention of calling eBay to discuss the matter with them, but then I saw the decision had been made. I couldn't believe it.
posted on March 18, 2010 02:46:56 PM
I keep reading things like this on many Discussion Boards and although Sellers are very ticked off ( and I don't blame them) nothing seems to go further.
I don't know what Government Departments you have in the United States as ours are different in Canada but surely someone has to make some formal complaints against EBay. Can any form of the Media help?
I believe EBay are really going way over the top with Buyers but in the process they are losing Sellers who are their source of income and whether they will admit it or not, it is the Sellers who are EBay's customers not the Buyers. Pretty soon the Buyers will have nothing decent left to buy because the site will be empty of good Sellers as they are either giving up or going to other sites.
posted on March 18, 2010 08:24:34 PM
Gotta love it! I'm waiting to get an INAD soon. Sold a 1976 Bicentennial quarter. In the title it stated .4 for silver content. In the ad it states A quarter not 4 quarters. There's only a photo of one quarter. This guy thought he was getting 4 quarters. Ugh. Where are they coming from?
posted on March 19, 2010 07:12:06 AM
CB: what are bicentennial quarters going for?? I have hundreds. When my daughter was 4 she got one in change and said, "I'm collecting these." and so we did for years and have banks full of them!!
posted on March 19, 2010 07:44:25 AM
Mine went for $13, but it was uncirculated, .4 silver and in mint condition. Some aren't silver so you have to check. Numismaster.com is a good place to start.
posted on March 19, 2010 09:24:28 AM
Individual selling electronic goods have more problems than say someone selling collectibles,UPS and Fed Exp are fed up with amateur packing,buyers often expect too much .
Best is to let the pros do the selling,they order from the maker and they know how to deal with customer returns and with the manufacturer.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on March 24, 2010 12:34:50 PM
Received camera today. It isn't the same camera. the buyer obviously took an old camera, removed the plastic trim where the serial number is attached and placed it onto an old camera. this thing looks like it was dragged behind a car. No original box, no documentation. I can tell that this is what he did because the plastic trim where the SN is glued onto looks brand new, except he screwed it back on too tight. The screws also show some wear.
I am on the phone with eBay right now, and I am headed to the Post Office next to file a mail fraud claim against this person. Last I checked this is a federal crime since shipment was done through the post office and over state lines.
Note: This buyer is also a seller... selling car parts. Seems like his chop shop skills are going to use on electronics as well.
posted on March 24, 2010 12:44:33 PM
Might be worth contacting the manufacturer of the camera to see if they have a "second" serial number in a separate location. Some companies will do that to avoid exactly this scenario. (VIN numbers for cars, for example, are in at least 3 locations). If you are lucky enough to find a mis-matched number... it will go a long way at solidifying your position.
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posted on March 24, 2010 12:55:48 PM
Hmmmm... Another idea... Is this a digital camera??? If so... check the EXIF data on a picture file. Some cameras have started putting the serial number there. If it doesn't match the serial number on the camera, there's your proof!
posted on March 24, 2010 01:41:31 PM
This camera is a disaster. The lens is jammed. I tried to see if this had any electronic info on it, but found nothing other than the typical settings.
I forwarded photos to eBay, and will post some here later for everyone to see.
posted on March 24, 2010 03:26:40 PM
Here are a few closeups... definately NOT the new camera I shipped to him. I should add that I also sold another camera (same brand/model) that had sequential serial numbers on it. Bought them at Office Max.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Mar 24, 2010 03:27 PM ]
[ edited by shagmidmod on Mar 24, 2010 03:48 PM ]
