posted on August 4, 2001 09:42:35 AM new
As a lot of you know, I have two dogs. I had seen a Veterinarian on t.v. who was saying that it is not necessary to vaccinate dogs, and in fact, that many vaccines are bad for our pets. I'm wondering if any of you have done any research on this, and how you feel about the subject. My own personal opinion is that maybe it's a racket for veterinarians to make an easy buck. The thing is, if we want to get our dogs' teeth cleaned, or if they would need surgery or boarding, the FIRST thing the vet makes us do is update all of their shots. Now THAT'S a racket!
posted on August 4, 2001 10:02:06 AM new
Hi Muriel - Funny you should bring up this subject as we just finished speaking to our vet about this.
In our state the only 'required' shot is a once-a-year rabies vaccination. That's it. They won't renew their yearly license unless you show proof of a rabies shot. The rest depends on where the pet lives and what dangers are presented to your pet in each area.
Our vet told us that most puppies need certain vaccinations but only during the first year or two. But that some vets recommend continuing those same shots when they're probably not necessary.
For example, one example she gave us was the heart worm shot. She said a lot of vets recommend doing the $65.00 (here) test to see if the dog has them. She stated that if the dog does have heart worms, nothing can be done for them anyway. And she said it usually takes approx. 7 years for it to kill them. So for a puppy you'd want to protect them, but for an older dog say like ours who's 5 even if she had them but lived another 7 years, that would be her live expectancy anyway.
She gave us other examples also, and stated most were un-necessary. Even pills you give your dog for different reasons, were normally not necessary. (Like ones for intestional worms.)
Her information went along with what you're saying the t.v. vet said, and with what our friend, who bred and raised dogs for 15 years, had told us too.
posted on August 4, 2001 10:14:38 AM new
Thanks, Linda! We live in a rural area, so we should probably get the rabies vaccine for both dogs. But I've always felt that the whole heartworm thing was a big scam. We still give our dogs flea/heartworm medicine, and it's VERY expensive. My husband had a dog who died, not from heartworm, but from the drugs they gave the dog to treat it! But he still likes to do the heartworm test every year because we live on a lake where mosquitos are prevelant. We may be rethinking that. (The dogs are inside 80% of the time.)
But what do you do if your vet requires you to vaccinate your dog or else they won't perform surgery, teeth cleaning, or boarding?
posted on August 4, 2001 10:31:55 AM new
Well, again our vet said if you're going to put your dogs in a kennel while vacationing, they should be protected against kennel cough.
On the teeth cleaning....our vet recommends against it. Said she feels the anesthesia is far too dangerous and should only be used in an emergency situations. That was proven by a close neighbors situation. They had their rottweiller (sp?) put to sleep for his teeth cleaning and he never came to. They tried everything to save him. Our vet said....give them good 'hard' bones to chew on or only feed they dry dog food.
When we took ownership of our little beagle, her teeth were badly stained (thus the reason we were asking the vet about teeth cleaning). She told us the above, we followed her instructions and now our beagle has no stains. Sure there's always the worry they'll get a bone splinter caught....by she said the odds are better than putting them to sleep.
Country dogs have long been thought to need de-worming as they can be eating whatever's out there. She shared that all de-worming pills do is give the dog diarrhea...and why would you want to purposely do that, if it's not needed? I asked since our dog moves her bowels and we don't always see the stool, how would we know if she had worms. She said you'll see her scooting on her rear if she does. Then give her the pills.
Sure makes sense that vets try to 'push' all these 'needed' treatments, as that's how they earn their living. But it was interesting to hear that so many are really not needed.
posted on August 4, 2001 10:48:45 AM new
May I jump in here? My sister works as a vet tech, and is engaged to a wonderful vet. (This has come in very handy for all the rescues Katie and I do!) Anyway, with all the charity and rescue work we do, we have seen countless dogs die of heartworms. Almost all these dogs recieved no or irregular prevention. And it is not a pretty death. Now, since a lot of the care that we do comes out of pockets, and out of the kindness of Brad's heart, I would have to think there was some validity to a vaccine schedule. He's not making a dime off of this work that we do...it's actually costing him money. Why would he do it if it wasn't neccesary?
Now, I'm sure there are certain circumstances where it is sound to opt out of certain shots/preventions. For instance, I have a 10 year old, very indoor cat. The last time he recived his vaccine for FIV, it really made him feel like crap for a few days. I discussed it with Brad, and we decided that, due to the fact that my cat is NEVER around any other cats, that we could opt out. But, if he ever needs to be boarded at their clinic, he will be vaccinated. The reason for this is that, yes, there are some unscrupulous vets and owners who will produce bogus shot records for whatever reason. And I don't want those possibly infected animals around my unprotected pet.
There are cases of animals having adverse effects, even death, due to vaccines/preventions. It is, technically, a foreign substance to the body. The same has happened to children, especially with the DPT vaccine. You have to make a carefully educated decision, based on the rates of disease in your area, the general health of you pet, and the circumstances in which they live. If I had dogs that lived by a lake, I would keep them on heartworm prevention. Lots of dogs can go their whole lives outside, with no prevention, being eaten alive by skeeters, and never have one worm. Others, it only takes one bite from an infected bug, and they're dead a year later.
Please, talk with several vets in the area before making a decision. Yeah, there are "money vets". But, the majority I've known genuinely care deeply for the lives of animals. (And from what I've seen in the past year, most don't make near the money that some think they do! Especially if they decide to marry into a bleeding heart family!)
posted on August 4, 2001 10:52:26 AM new
I'm starting to wonder if all these "necessary" shots and pills are a big money making scam, myself.
We got an APL pup last summer and I dutifully got all her shots and put her on the flea/heartworm pill. I was told that she could go off the pill for the cold winter months as chances of catching heartworm or fleas is very low during that time. When spring came, she was supposed to get another heartworm test, $65 around here, and start them on the pill again.
To save the expense and hassle of second test, I kept her on the pill all winter; she never was off the pill since the first heartworm test. When I went this June for her check-up and shot updates, they insisted I needed the heartworm test again or else they wouldn't provide me with more of the pills and you can't buy them over the counter. I asked why she would need that if her last test was clear and she never was off the medication but they couldn't answer me satisfactorily.
So I paid $130 for the shots, the test, and a 2 minute check-up where the vet barely looked at her. Three months of the Sentinel pills are $33 on top of that!
I never have nor ever will need to board her so some of the shots may be a waste, I think. I really want to provide what the dog NEEDS, but now I'm not sure what that is, exactly. I also worry that some of these medications might make the dog more likely to get cancer or some other illness but the vet laughed when I asked.
When I've searched the Web for info, it seems to be either mainstream generic stuff or really out there radical-type stuff like only feed your dog organic raw meat! Is there any where in between?
posted on August 4, 2001 11:05:01 AM new
I adopted my last two cats about three years ago. They had just been neutered and vaccinated against rabies and distemper by the shelter's vet. I took them to my vet a couple months later for their booster shots. On examining them, our vet found that they both had lumps at the vaccination site. He said that vets were seeing more tumors that they felt were related to vaccines, and that if the lumps didn't go away within a month to bring the cats back and he would surgically remove them because they often became cancerous. Luckily they went away on both cats. The vets I know vaccinate their own animals (cats anyway) on parts that are easily removed - tails or legs- so the cats have a fighting chance in case they develope an adverse reaction to the shots. In fact, despite local laws requiring it, my vet recommends against giving my totally indoor cats any vaccines this year, including rabies.
posted on August 4, 2001 11:16:07 AM new
I worked as a vet tech for 6 years.
Rabies vaccinations: This is required. Unless you live in the country where your pet may come in contact with a skunk or racoon, this is more for your protection than the pets. If they ever bite someone, you better have proof of vaccination.
Distemper/Parvo etc.: Puppies need these, adult dogs may not so much depending on circumstances. If your pets never come in contact with other animals, I wouldn't sweat it, but if you board them or take them to parks where other dogs play etc., it's a good idea to keep them up to date.
Heartworms: Heartworms kill dogs and it is a painfull thing to watch. Do you know anyone with congestive heart failure? Dogs will get bloated with fluid, cannot take more than a couple of steps without wheezing and panting. If you have any mosquitos in your area get your dog on preventitive and keep them on it. Testing them every year may not be essential, but IMHO the preventative is one of the best things you can do for your dog if you live in the South. Yeah, they may be old, but it's a awful way to die for something that is so preventable. There is treatment, but it's expensive and hard on the dog.
Worms: Tape worms are visible in the stool. If you see something that looks like rice, tell your vet. Puppies should be wormed by a vet. Adult dogs should be checked if they are around other dogs alot. Don't bother with over the counter wormers you buy at Wal-mart etc. They are a waste of money. There are different types of worms and the over the counter stuff is not only ineffectual, but most likely for the wrong type of worm.
posted on August 4, 2001 11:44:39 AM new
What timing for this topic! My dog, (a 1 year old Min Pin) just had a vet appt Thursday. She had her first Heartworm test ($25) and yesterday I was a NERVOUS WRECK waiting for the results. My vet said they would only call me IF the results were positive. Needless to say, every time the phone rang I panicked big time! Luckily, the vets never called. I didn't know very much about heartworm until a few days ago - and I was told there was no treatment for heartworm.
Last summer I had her on Interceptor (preventative heartworm pills - $3 per pill) and she just got back on them again Thursday. Vet said she only needs to be on them until November.
Yearly she gets CVP Vaccinations (not even sure what that is), and Rabies vaccinations. She is mainly an indoor dog. Do you think the CVP vaccinations could be dangerous to her?
posted on August 4, 2001 11:56:21 AM new
You can give your pets all the shots your vet says to
The 'new school' of vets are saying not to give them the regular shots every year, as they found they were developing tumors from them... that was just a study done, but they are teaching the new students, that in most cases, yearly shots are not required, more like every 3 years or so, and then after a certain age, no shots. Like my cat is 15 and I'm not going to give him shots any longer.
Of course convince your vet you've been going to for years, and they will most likely tell you yearly shots.
posted on August 4, 2001 11:58:51 AM new
You guys are always full of good informed advice. That's why I come here with my questions, because I get a variety of views and ideas. Thanks everyone. Keep up the discussion!
posted on August 4, 2001 12:01:06 PM new
We've got three dogs, a golden retreiver, a yellow lab & Mom's (is she EVER gonna take her home?) Shitzu. The shitzu is a puppy (and NOT techically mine) so she's in for regular visits and shots. The other two got their puppy shots & rabies thru the years, but nothing more. The golden is 13 yrs old and the lab 6. They spend their days inside, in our yard or an occasion walk around the block. Both are in excellent health.
BTW, not that I am recommending it without benefit of a vet checkup, but you can get the standard dog meds online (Program, heartworm, etc) at about 1/2 the cost of what my vet charges.
~ Rancher
[ edited by rancher24 on Aug 4, 2001 12:01 PM ]
posted on August 4, 2001 12:27:06 PM new
Okay....I was searching for the specific type of dog 'chew' bone our vet recommended. Won't cause problems like bone chips getting caught nor the swelling in the dogs throats that are caused by some of those 'leather' chew bones. Doc said sometimes a piece of those get lodged in their throats and then the material swells up. Anyway....she recommended "Nylabones". They can be ordered online or purchased in pet stores. Come in many flavors and *really* help with teeth cleaning.
You are aware that you can purchase most of the items you need for your dog on the internet, right? Like flea and tick medications and worming pills, etc. They're usually much cheaper than what the vets sell the same things for.
Two I use (but I'm recommending the first one most) are:
www.Lambriarvet.com (They have super prices on most common items - medically speaking). For example, a six month supply of what I think is the best flea & tick medication (Frontline Plus), cost us $52.25 (shipping included) for a 6 month supply instead of the $84.00 we were paying before we found this site.
and: www.jefferspet.com
At these sites you can even purchase your own shots and give them to your dogs yourself (if you'd want to).
posted on August 4, 2001 01:02:42 PM new
Hi rancher - I was typing and didn't see your post referring to online dog and cat supplies. But you're right, they sure are cheaper.
And hello blondesense, too. Don't bother with over the counter wormers you buy at Wal-mart etc. They are a waste of money.
As someone who has worked in the field, can you please share if you are aware of any other types of worms (that dogs can get) other than hookworms, roundworms and tapeworms. Excluding heartworm, of course.
Reason I ask is that in this catalog our vet gave us, you can either purchase (online) a d-worming pill, paste, powder, etc. for each of those individually or one that will treat all three. So I took that to mean that we could use any of the worming formules and they would take care of the problem. And to find out what each worm looks like I only have to do a www search and I can find a picture of them. (YUCK!)
Hello EG - In this catalog of vaccines I received from our vet, there are many different combinations of protections put in different shots. I just looked and I'd bet there are close to 75 - 100 different diseases that a dog *may* need to be protected from. But I do believe the vet takes the individual dogs circumstance into consideration when choosing a certain combinations. For example just one vaccine is called DA2P+CPV. And this is what the catalog states about that one vaccine: Distemper, Adenovirus Type 2 (gives cross immunity to Adenovirus Type 1 Hepatitis), Parainfluenza, (MLV) Parvo.
posted on August 4, 2001 06:31:05 PM new
Alabama law requires a rabies shot every year, and we live in the country, so I don't argue the need.
Both of my dogs are on heartworm year round. One lives outside, one is a lapdog, but he goes outside routinely. The pills for the big dog are very expensive, but I heard you can order them through the internet, and I'm going to look into that. My vet does not require a retest as long as the pills are not interupted.
My sister (in the Carolinas) failed to keep her dog on the pill, he got heartworm. My mom took in a dog with heartworm. The cure can be fatal as they use arsenic.
My mom's dog died of the treatment, my sisters golden retreiver lived, but it was very hard on him. He has been very thin ever since.
We have an indoor/outdoor cat, and he also receives all recommended shots.
All of our animals have been nuetered as well.
Vaccinations can be hazardous for any living thing, but to me, the risks of missing vaccinations outweigh the possible side effects. None of our animals have exhibited negative side effects.
My vet did recommend that I wait on the new 6 month heartworm shot (which he did have), as he was not up-to-speed on possible side effects. He went to school to be a vet, I didn't, so I take his advice on vaccinations seriously.
Great timing for this topic. I am moving to Ohio soon and my dog got her rabies shot 2 days ago. She gets this every 3 years. The vet recommended the heart worm test $30,and meds $25/6 month supply. She said Ohio has a high incident of heart worm. I told her I would think about it. I will have to check out the websites mentioned.
Both of my cats are indoor only so after their initial kitten shots and neuter they have been shot free. A previous cat I had died over a reaction to a vaccination.
Vet's make you feel like a terrible pet owner if you don't do as they recommend.
posted on August 4, 2001 11:46:28 PM new
Vaccinations *are* necessary. Rabies needn't be yearly, as there are 2 & 3 year rabies vaccinations around. But they are necessary.
Have you seen a dog with distemper? Even if a dog survives this nasty disease, it will likely have health problems for the rest of its life. I *have* seen dogs with it--nasty.
Parvo? I had to nurse an entire litter of puppies (18) through it--cost me a small fortune, and though most recovered, all had problems afterwords. They got it before their scheduled vaccination. This is not a disease that you want your dog to suffer through, believe me.
You don't have to fork over big bucks for vaccinations. Other than rabies (which you can get done at a low-cost clinic such as comes around to Petsmart every month) you can give vaccinations yourself. You can get the 6-in-one shots at pet supply places & even some pharmacies.
There is a new school of thought that yearly vaccines are not necessary and some veterinarians are beginning to recommend *not* doing them IF AND ONLY IF you agree to run yearly titre tests to determine what level of immunity to a given disease the dog currently holds. The titre testing costs as much or more than a vaccine.
Heartworm is treatable if caught early, but, as someone has already mentioned, treatment is not 100% effective and is very hard on the animal being treated. It does NOT take 7 or 8 years for the dog to die of heartworm infestion, and it's a horrible, horrible way to go.
As for veterinarians pushing vaccines solely to line their pockets--I don't think so. As my own vet pointed out a couple years ago when we had a mini-epidemic of Parvo: the treatment ($500-800 or more, with no guarantee it'll work) is much more costly than a vaccine ($15 or less and almost 100% effective).
One more thing: if you don't trust your vet, or think he/she's only in it for the money, or think you're getting bizarre advice--find a new vet. You may have to shop around until you find one that "fits", just like you might have to try out several physicians for yourself.
If all you want is someone to give annual vaccines as required by law, check out shot clinics held by feed/supply stores, humane societies or whatever, or do it yourself with mail-order supplies (note that vaccines and, especially, syringes aren't available in some states without a prescription, so you may be SOL). Personally, I want a better relationship with my vet than that so that when something out of the ordinary crops up, she has the dog's medical history all in one place, just like I want my doctor to know everything that's going on with me. It's no different because the patient is "just a dog".
posted on August 5, 2001 02:50:01 AM newRabies needn't be yearly, as there are 2 & 3 year rabies vaccinations around.
Bunnicula, you are correct that there are rabies vaccinations available that are effective for two or more years, but some states still require that they be given annually.
Even if rabies vaccinations are available at a local feedstore, they should be done by a vet or clinic so you have proof that it has been given properly. If your child is bitten, are you going to take the owners word? "Yeah, sure, I gave'em a rabies shot myself, oh, well, just a couple months ago."
Linda K, there are also whipworms. Like I mentioned, tapeworms are often seen in/on a fresh stool, like pieces of rice. Roundworms in a young puppy may occasionally be passed and look like spaghetti that curls up, but most likely will never be seen. The others are so small you really can't get close enough to see them, but in a small puppy can cause anemia and death.
posted on August 5, 2001 03:25:48 AM new
When two of our indoor cats tested positive for feline leukemia, I asked the vet how could that happen? He said it can come in on your shoe, it's that transmittable. At the time, we had 5 cats. Two out of the 5 tested positve, the other 3 didn't get it. We racked our brains trying to figure out how that could be. Back then, the vaccine for it started out as a series of 3 shots close together (I think it's now 2, then yearly bosters). We finally figured out that the 2 that got it had each had the first shot only, and the other 3 had gotten the first 2 shots (none had completed the series of 3 shots). We also had lost another cat to leukemia before the vaccine was available. Needless to say I'm a big supporter of that particular vaccine and all of my cats get it no matter what.
As far as heartworm in dogs, my vet explained to me when we first got Gunther that they have to test before they give the preventative because if the dog already has it, the preventative could kill him. They also don't retest for it unless he's gone off the preventative for some reason. In other words, no need to retest yearly if they stay on the preventative all year round (unless maybe you're in a high risk area?) I guess either I didn't know, or had forgotten that they get it from mosquitoes. We don't have many here in the city, but we do have a canal behind our house. I'd rather be safe than sorry as long as it doesn't have bad side effects, plus he loves them. Gunther also gets the 3 year rabies shot. When licensing time comes around, they know when he's due for a shot so we just pay the fees.
You guys have given me a lot to think about, thanks! My 3 boy kitties are 10, 9 & about 8 years old. They got their initial shots and the 2 oldest got boosters for a couple of years. I'm starting to rethink getting any more, especially being inside.
The 8 year old has FIV and I went ahead and had him vaccinated so nothing else would complicate the disease. When he was diagnosed 4-5 years ago, the vet was ready to put him to sleep since we had other, non-infected, cats in the house. There was no way I was going to do that as long as he was healthy! Now hubby & I agonized over whether to try and find him another home for about a month. but we decided that this poor cat had already been through enough in his life that the least we could do was provide him with a warm, safe loving home for as long as he needed. (He was a stray where we used to live and had gone through being hungry and possibly hit by a car or abuse because he has a deformed ankle and hip problems. We learned before we moved that he'd been an indoor cat at the neighborhood 'cat' house, but for some reason they kicked him outside. We think it may have been the FIV issue. After knowing as the neighborhood friendly stray for 3 years, we couldn't just leave and leave him behind, so we took him with us.) Today he's a healthy, very happy cat! We even call him our happy cat. He has no desire to go outside and I know he's grateful that he no longer has to be out in the rain, heat, etc. and forage for food. The only problems he has is his hips and jumping. I'm sure glad I didn't listen to that vet!
posted on August 5, 2001 05:01:00 AM new
One of my sisters had a Alaskan Malmute(sp?)
her husband did not believe in getting the dog shots. One day her very big, friendly dog started acting strange. She was alone, and he would snap in and out between growling at her, and crying. She told me it was like he didn't know who she was, he was a different dog. She had to keep him outside on a chain, he would jump up on the door, growling like he was trying to get her. It was so sad. When her husband came home, they brought him to the vet, he had distemper.
It was very scary for her, and she had to put the dog to sleep. She was very attached to the dog, and it was hard for her to see him like that.
I have gotten two puppies from breeders, and they both had tape worm. The vet told me that they get them from eating the fleas.
So after what happened to my sisters dog, I always get the shots. I also get the flea medicine from the vet. Fleas are so bad here.
posted on August 5, 2001 08:23:24 AM newblondesense: rabies vaccinations are available only through vets --unlike the 6-in-1 shots. That is because states use them as a requirement for licensing.
posted on August 5, 2001 10:59:26 AM new
Whoever said you should test for antibodies before skipping vaccines is right on the money. Don't just skip on vaccines and ASSUME your dog has immunity. If you feel strongly about not vaccinating unnecessarily, do the tests. Don't skip vaccines just to 'save money'.
Dogs dying from distemper and parvo are a horrible sight, especially when it is so preventable. People not vaccinating (without doing the tests) are being irresponsible.
Heartworm--if you give the prevention when dogs already have heartworm, it can be fatal. Most vets will make you test yearly even if the dog is on year-round prevention because no drug is 100% effective, and lots of people accidentally skip doses or don't give the medicine regularly (but won't admit it). And no, it doesn't take 7 years for a dog to die of heartworms, and yes it is treatable (although expensive--$500+ to treat, and the dog might not survive). I personally know of an 11 year old dog who was just successfully treated.
As for giving the shots yourself, I suppose it is better than no shots at all. I can think of a lot of other places I'd rather save money, though, than on regular vet treatment for my dog. And if you ever want to board your dog at any reputable kennel or your dog stays at the vet's office, they won't accept self-administered vaccines--they've got to be done by a veterinarian.
So...do I think vets making you update vaccines before your animal has treatment is a racket? NO. If he accepts your dog in his clinic without vaccinations, he is potentially exposing all his other client's pets to fatal diseases. Not a smart move, ethically or legally.
Talk to your vet honestly about these questions. We have a holistic vet here, and this is a small town. Talk to kennels and other pet owners about who they recommend. Find a vet you're comfortable with. My vet is the highest priced vet around, and also IMO the most competent. I've recommended him to many people who treat their dogs like family, but I've also recommended other vets to people who have 'farm dogs' that were just dogs to them. It all depends what YOU are looking for and how important your dog is to you. No right or wrong implied there, just differing values on what is important.
My in-laws go to a vet because he is less expensive, and I happen to not care for this particular vet. I was looking at his prices last week for a spay neuter, and realized that they weren't cheaper for the level of care that I expect normally from my vet. If you wanted an injectable anaesthetic and no pain medicine for the dog after the surgery, it was dirt cheap. If you wanted what my vet always provides...gas anaesthetic, IV fluids, heart monitoring, pain meds, etc, it was no cheaper. Look at what you're getting and look at what you WANT to get...and go from there.
Lisa
posted on August 5, 2001 01:50:07 PM new
I have more thoughts and comments now.
First, I really do think it's important to develop a working relationship with a vet. I'd like to know that if my dog was suddenly sick or was accidentally hurt, that I could call someone that knew me and my dog and I could get immediate attention.
My sister takes her dog to the clinic at Petsmart, which is great for low cost access to shots and pills, but she can't rely on them for emergency care or even for asking a quick question over the phone when something isn't quite right. God forbid, if anything sudden happens, she'll have to call a local vet and hope that he'll see the dog. She'll also be at a disadvantage because the vet won't be sure what the dog has or hasn't had previously. And really, why should a vet have to go out of their way for someone who isn't a regular customer?
I also checked out some of the sites mentioned here for supplies. As it turns out, my vet is apparently fairly pricing his drugs. My dog takes Sentinel for 50+ ponds and I pay $11.00 a tablet. Most Net companies are $60-63 for 6 tabs.
I see the point about testing for heartworm even if they are on the pill year round. I guess what I'll do is just give the pill during warm months and not the rest of the year. This was suggested to me by my vet so I'll go along with that and save the cost of 6 months pills but take the test at the end of winter before I start her on the pills again.
Oh, the time and worry I spend on my dog; but, she's like one of my kids. LOL!
posted on August 5, 2001 02:14:59 PM new
I believe that the reason many people see vaccinations as a "racket" and think they can be dispensed with is...ignorance.
NO, I don't mean that those folks are stupid--just ignorant about the diseases the vaccinations prevent. Because the vaccinations have done & continue to do their job.
And for many people, because the diseases are not seen, they are "gone" or not seen as a threat any more and so vaccinations are no longer necessary. Mistaken thinking that is very dangerous. This same thinking has spawned a movement to stop vaccinating humans for dread diseases like diptheria, whooping cough, measles, mumps and polio.
posted on August 5, 2001 03:27:15 PM new
I don't know... is it ignorance of the disease or just the fact that we may all be a bit jaded by our consumer society with all the marketing and claims, particularly when what is "good" for you one week turns out to be "bad" the next?To me, it's a good thing that we question instead of accepting something out of habit or because everyone else does it.
I don't think anyone really advocated NOT vaccinating our dogs, it was more of a discussion on the timing and regularity of it and some of the other veterinary practices and there were some good points brought out.
So, what do you all feed your dogs/cats? Do you pay more for designer dog foods or get the Wal-Mart specials? Do any of you do the fresh, home-made food thing?
At present, I use Nutro Natural Choice Lamb & Rice or Chicken & Rice. I get it on sale and have coupons so it isn't much more than a store brand. Some people swear by it, others say all commercial dog food is junk.
posted on August 5, 2001 06:42:28 PM new
I only said that the new school of thought, is what they are teaching at the Vet school here. My daughter finished that mod on vaccinations a couple months ago, where they taught that immunizations were not nessecary every year. Of course if you live in an area where there is high risk of rabies etc, you need to get them, or where it is required by law. Its just what they are teaching, here anyway to the students in vet school.
She goes to Pima Medical, if that makes a difference?
posted on August 5, 2001 06:44:37 PM new
I used to do the all natural fresh meat/cereal/veggie diet until I realized that I was spending about an hour a day preparing my dogs' food, and usually having my husband pick up pizza for us because I was too tired to cook.
Now I compromise and feed Bil-Jac frozen dog food.
Does anybody remember when parvo first came around and nobody knew what it was? How scary that was?
Lisa
posted on August 5, 2001 07:02:34 PM new
NearTheSea, did your daughter hear that dogs were getting tumors from the shots also? Three vets have told me about the tumors they're finding in cats. I haven't had a dog in several years so I haven't kept up there. We did keep our dog current on all his vaccines when he was alive because he went outside,picked up fleas, and swam in the river. I grilled the vets about the chances our indoor cats would have of contracting distemper from our shoes or a trip to the animal clinic, but they minimized that - saying too frequent shots were the more serious problem. After giving the cats several years of distemper shots, the vets felt they had enough immunity to skip a year. If I remember right, the rabies shot was the one they worried most about.
posted on August 5, 2001 07:08:57 PM new
Hi saabsister
Yes definitly I know I remember her telling me about the tumors in cats, but I am not sure about dogs. I will have to ask her, if I can ever catch her at home
And she did tell me about the older pets, ones that are like my cat that is 15. You can decide whether you want to give one that old more shots, I opted not to. She did say they found it more traumatizing in older animals..... I mean really older pets.
Rabies, yes, if your dog is an outside dog, and they do go outside sometime, even if an indoor dog so I'll have to grill her on what exactly they taught her. But definitly she said they were finding tumors in cats when having yearly shots, and trauma to very old pets.
Anyway, with all the charity and rescue work we do, we have seen countless dogs die of heartworms. Almost all these dogs recieved no or irregular prevention. And it is not a pretty death. Now, since a lot of the care that we do comes out of pockets, and out of the kindness of Brad's heart, I would have to think there was some validity to a vaccine schedule. He's not making a dime off of this work that we do...it's actually costing him money. Why would he do it if it wasn't neccesary?
He has no desire to go outside and I know he's grateful that he no longer has to be out in the rain, heat, etc. and forage for food. The only problems he has is his hips and jumping. I'm sure glad I didn't listen to that vet!
Hippy wannabe 
~^~