posted on August 21, 2001 11:59:11 PM new
This thread is not intended for school v. homeschool debate. Please feel free to share school or homeschool articles/links/discussion, etc. If you are not interested, please ignore.
posted on September 3, 2001 06:29:01 AM new
Hi Terri,
According to an article in today's Washington Post, the problem is achieving economically integrated schools. You are absolutely right that it is not just a southern problem.
We have a school in an economically exclusive area and the people that own property in this area will not redraw their school boundries to include nearby apartments and areas that are less afluent. They are worried about the prestige of their school and getting their students into the most prestigious schools...and land value. This school is Walt Whitman.
The boundries could be redrawn to integrate most of the high poverty schools and make the schools more economically integrated but I doubt that it will ever happen. The powerful will continue to geremander school boundries.
Spending extra money per student in the poverty area... three thousand per pupil has not worked in Montgomery County.
Busing children to attempt to achieve this integration has not worked.
There is a long, front page article in today's Washington Post that explains the problem very well. I encourage everybody to read it because the problem is a nation wide problem.
posted on September 3, 2001 08:06:41 AM newjt, I have no links to offer at this time, but I will provide some shortly. This can/could lead to some very interesting debates.
Rick
In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth.
posted on September 3, 2001 10:08:18 AM new
Hi Helen and ddicffe.
Actually here it is only a problem in the city schools. County schools are pretty diverse. My area (county) is a 50-50 racial make-up. 2 new schools (elememtary, HS) and one under construction (middle school).
I can't find the local article that I was looking for and it was an editorial. It was titled, "Last one out, turn out the lights".
Crime in the city is OUT of control. Schools are poor and dangerous. All the while the mayor DOUBLED his salary and raised salaries of all the city council. Now they need to raise taxes (driving out even more residents and businesses) because they are in the red. The article talked about "white flight", "business flight" AND "middle class black flight". That only leaves poor black kids in the inner city schools.
At the same time, I do NOT think forced busing is a solution for several reasons...and it just can not work because people will just move again to avoid it (and I don't blame them!).
1. It's wrong to force kids out of their own neighborhood schools. (They could walk, their friends are there, their parents are nearby, after school activities, etc.)
2. It's unfair for the kids who have the means to go to better schools to be forced to go to inferior (and especially very dangerous) schools.
3. The poor schools need attention in their own right. BUT, here it isn't a simple matter of drawing the lines more fairly. It's a matter of the city being uninhabitable for both residents and businesses which leads to no tax base for city schools.
Looking forward to your articles ddicffe.
T
I read yours Helen and I agree that dumping money into schools does NOT fix the more complex social problems that lead to poor achievement. Giving failing teachers raises is also just as useless. When safety is a serious issue, even more money will not draw good teachers I don't think. No one wants to work in a war zone.
[ edited by jt on Sep 3, 2001 10:21 AM ]
posted on September 3, 2001 11:52:39 AM new
The focus on the article in the Washington Post that I linked above is based on a 20 year study. As poverty increases in the county, test scores by which schools are measured decrease.
Walt Whitman High School ranks as one of the top schools in the nation.
Parents of students there are wealthy and powerful and will not agree to move the boundary in order to make the school a more middle class environment.
As a result of the failure of busing and the failure to change boundaries, schools are becoming segregated economically.
An effort has been made to focus attention on the poverty schools by raising the per student allotment to around 3000. According to the article in the Post, this is not working either. That really surprises me because I thought previously that lack of money was the problem with your schools in Mississippi.
I have a friend with a child who is very intelligent but because of a hearing problem developed a speech problem. She is sending her child to one of these poverty schools because the classes are smaller and the school is simply superior. Why they are not succeeding with the test scores is a mystery to me.
posted on September 3, 2001 01:36:29 PM new
I think it's more social problems Helen. Poverty may be the underlying issue for them, but money dumped into schools alone can't correct them.
When you have kids where neighborhood violence and abuse is a way of life, where there are no role models to look to, no adults who value education, where their personal needs are not being met (sometimes in favor of other things), you will never see scores rise.
It's like that song that I keep harping about that I hear booming from teen cars...
"I just want to be your neighborhood dru...g dealer." What do we have to aspire to do with our lives? Who is top dog in my neighborhood?
This is an interesting article. What I said in another thread about "limiting welfare WORKING" is true. That's good news.
"Under the new welfare system, child poverty has fallen to its lowest since 1979 and poverty among black children has fallen to its lowest ever, he said. He considers it a vast improvement from a system that encouraged dependency, single parenthood and, as a result, poverty."
But 40% of poor people who qualify are not taking advantage of food stamps....and kids need food to learn. It makes you wonder what all those welfare checks were/are REALLY being spent on doesn't it. Often there have been busts for "food stamp rings" where they are exchanged for cash. That's not so frequent now. Seems it's being prevented more and more. Stop that and many don't even want them any more. Others were kicked of when they shouldn't have been. But, there are still signs next to the casinos on the coast that say "WE CASH WELFARE CHECKS HERE!"
posted on September 3, 2001 05:58:15 PM new
I just read your link. That's awesome.
My sister returned to Mississippi with my mother after my parents were divorced and she attended Central High School in Jackson. I wonder what kind of condition it's in now.
Crime of course is a big problem in DC also. I used to travel back and forth a few times a week but I haven't been there for a few years. It seems to me that
poverty is usually the root cause of many social problems, including crime and ignorance.
Now, I hope that some little rascal does not come bopping in here to accuse me of suggesting that everybody in Jackson is ignorant. I'm sure that you know what I mean, Terri.
posted on September 3, 2001 07:23:18 PM new
It would not be a problem to have diversity in schools at all if the government would just make it a law that you can not move into a neighborhood unless it increases the diversity. That is the root problem UNdiverse neighborhoods around schools.
We just need to have everyone questioned for race - religion - cultural rarity and economic status and points awarded on a sliding scale.
If you did move into a neighborhood without increasing diversity there would be Federal points added to your mortgage as a tax.
If you increased diversity above a certain point value you would get tax credits to help with the purchase.
A gay elderly couple couple who were a jewish/Irish/blind and a moslem/Italian/fat with no funds or jobs and who
belong to greenpeace and the Republican party and have adopted a deaf vietnamese wiccan would get a free house and the welcome wagon franchise.
posted on September 4, 2001 12:49:04 AM new
I live next door to an elderly woman that chops the heads of my chickens and tosses them back over the fence (then has her daughter call to tell me she did it), smiles warmly and says "Goodmorning, how are you today?" in the grocery store, and once hired a plumber to blow me up by unhooking my gas pipes under my house with the gas on. Then she told me to move back the damned city where I belong or she was going to get me.
She's fat, mean, and heathern. Does that count? I want something. What do I get gravid?
T
P.S. It's not you relative Helen. She's nice.
[ edited by jt on Sep 4, 2001 12:52 AM ]
posted on September 4, 2001 03:56:29 AM new
*--Honorable Mention --*
Got me giggling so hard I could not hit the right keys...Sounds very believable. I can picture her in a print dress and apron with her hair up in a bun and a cleaver.
I guess we have to give extra points for proximity also.
