posted on September 2, 2001 04:15:38 AM new
Overcast days makes for dim bulbs?
In what sounds like a fullblown Keystone Kops script, the Seattle police had an incident of mistaking one of their own for a member of the criminal element, or is it that each side of this silliness did that? In any case, an investigation finds that everybody was acting within the law and the scope of their duties, except maybe for the part about ramming police cars with other police cars.
posted on September 2, 2001 05:43:51 AM new
Of course they are justified. They could shoot an old lady in a wheel chair and their review boards would clear them.
posted on September 2, 2001 06:43:59 AM new
So, they are justified in firing thirty three shots...risking lives... but ramming cars is under investigation?
posted on September 2, 2001 09:00:19 AM newI consider police more dangerous than criminals
Thank you for that little nugget, Helen. And to think that I was just reading a thread here about sweeping generalizations.
Gravid's comment is too ridiculous to even comment upon. But come to think of it, we haven't had a good "cop bashing" thread here in a long while. I suppose we're overdue.
posted on September 2, 2001 09:12:59 AM newKatyD I was just going to comment that the many times NRA advocates have made a big scene about guns, now we know "Loaded Cars" are far more dangerous!
That is not a Police bashing either...it's the troooooth!!
Personally, I have great admiration for the Police who on any given moment put themselves on the line for us citizens, without regard to political beliefs and protect us and our property!
You better watch out for the meter maids in your area, I understand that they are steadfast police supporters!
KatyD an aside: I know you have been away from the boards but do look up Serial Bully..it makes a most interesting and elightening read. (here is one excerpt)...Displays a compulsive need to criticise whilst simultaneously refusing to value, praise and acknowledge others, their achievements, or their existence.
Fits nicely wouldn't you say!!
[ edited by zilvy on Sep 2, 2001 09:16 AM ]
[ edited by zilvy on Sep 2, 2001 09:18 AM ]
posted on September 2, 2001 09:18:49 AM new
Consider it a reflection of where I live.
MY local cops are pure gold. Respond in 3 minutes. Are tasked with reasonable duties.
However the Police to the south of us in the
big suburbs and Detroit kill a regular stream of people in the lock up - they shoot unarmed people who are fleeing but they have no idea what if any crime they have committed. They
have cases where the suspect is shot in the back laying wounded on the ground Deaf peole shot because they did not respond to orders to lay down their garden rake.
They have cops who have oral sex performed on them standing in a public bar and who rob crack houses on their off duty hours.
Business men who are arrested and they property confiscated and they never do find the drugs the slime ball informant insisted
where in the office but that's OK they keep the buildings and cash anyway. The police chief had his house raided and there was a quarter million cash stashed in the kitchen ceiling..
It is like a third world country down there. Full of corruption and theft.
posted on September 2, 2001 09:20:50 AM new
This is your take...I happen to know some very dedicated police officers, fine family men, husbands, dads, uncles who are caring and warm, and regard their duty as sacro sanct. Don't ever call for help HJW, they will now by the look in your eyes what you think and may lose their dedication!
posted on September 2, 2001 09:41:03 AM new
Don't know where Gravid lives. And don't share his views that all police are loose cannons. However, doing a quick search on the Net under "Detroit Police" netted me:
Well, I'm not bigger or badder so they won't have a problem...my reply was to Zilvy's remark about the distinguished officers with which she is aquainted.
But do a search on Police brutality if you want links to the type of mahem that Gravid mentioned.
Police officers frighten me on the roads also when they get carried away with catching a speeding car or perhaps someone with out of date license plates.
Innocent people become victims occasionally as a result of these chases.
posted on September 2, 2001 09:54:22 AM new
Actually, Bunnicula, it was Helen who used the term "loose cannons". Since you went to the trouble to locate news articles that support a particular "slant", it shouldn't take you too long to locate some that show the other side of the story. Maybe some about officers who have given their lives trying to keep people safe. Of course, those stories aren't the ones that sell newspapers, are they?
So. We're back to stereotyping are we? I'm just waiting for Helen to come in and point out how police officers are "racist". Should be any time now.
It appears that again, you are not really interested in stating your opinion of the topic but rather in attacking me. Bunnicula has provided links that should indicate to you that a problem with
the professional behavior of police officers does in fact exist.
That is why I fear police officers.
That is why I consider them loose cannons.
Where have I mentioned the word racist in this thread?
posted on September 2, 2001 10:08:24 AM newKatyD: Actually, I didn't go looking for a "particular slant"...I looked to see if Gravid was exaggerating. I in no way refined the search--I just typed in "Detroit Police." Other than the links that i already mentioned (& discounting duplicates as often happens on Net searches), what you get on this simple search are: 1)website for Detroit PD Underwater Recovery Team, 2)Detroit PD website, 3) a wanted sheet posted by the Detroit PD, 4) the shooting death of a retired Detroit PD officer, 5) Detroit PD investigating violence at Everlast show, 6) Detrpoit PD recruiting notice, 7) shooting death of DPD officer, 8) DPD Athletic League website, 9) a history of DPD use of vehicles.
That's it. On a plain, unadorned search of "Detroit Police".
edited for spelling.
[ edited by bunnicula on Sep 2, 2001 10:09 AM ]
posted on September 2, 2001 10:27:40 AM newKatyD: just to make you happy, I did a search under "Detroit Police Commendations" and "Detroit Police Awards." While a site popped up for the Michigan State Police & giving commendations for them, not a single thing came up for the Detroit PD.
posted on September 2, 2001 10:34:45 AM new
Helen, as usual, you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. Nobody has attacked you. I'll let you in on a big secret...that line is getting old.
Bunnicula, care to find some articles that tell the other side of the story?
What I am saying, is that stereotyping and generalizing about an entire profession [as Helen did] is wrong. I could do it easily based upon "news articles" and my own experience. I used to date a machinist who had his own business. Most of his business was defense contracts [this was in the early 80's]. He used to steal the government blind. It was easy to do then. And who knows the "quality" of the work he produced. Easy money. He was a crook. All machinists are crooks. The head librarian here at my local branch is a witch. She's acts like it's a big imposition to answer any questions and is always on the phone "chatting" with her friends on county time. I also read an article [I'll try to find it] about a librarian by day who "moonlighted" as a hooker by night. The money was good, but I guess she needed the day job for her retirement. Guess Librarians [as a whole] are sluts. Oh, and how about the pharmacist recently in the news for diluting drugs for his own profits? Those stories only confirmed my suspicions that pharmacists are crooks.[despite the fact I come from a family of pharmacists on my mothers side]. I used to work in banking. We had numerous incidents of tellers "fooling" with their cash drawers. Even had to fire a loan officer for "cooking" some books. Bankers are crooks. When we bought our house, we ended up suing the realtor. It was a terrible experience and in researching news articles on the internet, I found that what our realtor did is pretty common in the real estate industry. Least the news articles led me to believe that. Of course all realtors are crooks. I've been registered with ebay since 1996. In my countless transactions as a buyer and a seller, I have found that most ebay sellers and buyers are shillers, scammers, bid shielders, and con artists. Ebay users are crooks. My sister is an RN. She is a b*tch. When I was in the hospital, the nurses who treated me were mean. I have also read about nurses who have KILLED people. Nurses are mean murderers. I can find "news articles" on the net to back up every one of my experiences above. They will prove that what I say about each of the people who choose these professions are crooks, and all round bad people. I haven't even mentioned the people who live in the South. I can find news articles that "prove" that white people who live in the South are racist. White Southerners are BAD people. And on and on...
posted on September 2, 2001 10:41:09 AM new
So. Bunnicula. I didn't see anything in the articles backing up Gravid's specific claims. I guess every cop who works for the Detroit PD is a BAD cop. Any problems Detroit PD has is indicative of every department in the country. A while back I posted an article about LAPD and it's recent problems with corruption and gang infestation within the department ranks. I'm not trying to excuse problems [and there are in ANY profession]in Law Enforcement. But it isn't right to condemn with blanket statements a whole profession based upon the sensationalized incidents regarding a few.
posted on September 2, 2001 10:46:31 AM new
One bad apple spoils the bushel in the public eye as well as in fact, and the police should be held to a standard higher than that adhered to by the general public. They swear an oath to to that, I believe. No police are justified in looking the other way when one of theirs breaks laws or violates rights. If they do that, and they do with documentable regularity, then they are no better than the lawbreaker.
posted on September 2, 2001 10:56:37 AM new
Police Officers ARE held to a higher accountability, krs. Why anyone would actually choose this profession these days is beyond me. The work is hazardous and thankless. I would guess that the only interaction most people here have with police officers are the occaisional traffic ticket and their avid reading of sensational news stories. And people wonder why cops pretty much keep to themselves and their own. Frankly, I wonder why I bother.
posted on September 2, 2001 11:04:50 AM new
The growing problem with Police Depts is not about "one bad apple" or "just a few" giving the whole force a bad name.
The problems in Police Depts seems to be systemic.
The training, organization, methodology, and self regulation of too many forces all seem to be horribly messed up.
One problem is Depts bent toward becomming a para-military organization. They routinely hire ex-military personal for this reason. The use of deadly force is the first instinct rather than the last. This spells disaster for community policing, for both the Depts and those they "serve".
These problems are even erupting on routine traffic stops. We had a pizza delivery boy paralyzed from a policeman shooting the delivery person on a speeding stop. The policeman claimed his arm was stuck in the window when the delivery person attempted to leave and drag the officer, so he shot the driver in the neck.
The poor delivery driver can not remember what happened - but us paralyzed from the neck down. Do you think the cop will incriminate himself by telling what actually happened ?
posted on September 2, 2001 11:06:32 AM new
I have already stated that I personally don't think that all police officers are loose cannons (regardless of whether Gravid or Helen said it first )
Recognizing that there are police officers (& PDs, in the case of Detroit) that do bad things is not "condemning police officers everywhere." It is merely a fact. Though, BTW, the links I found *did* support Gravid's statements, so he wasn't just blowing hot air.
Trying to ignore or pooh-pooh such occurances is as great a disservice as a blanket condemnation would be.
[ edited by bunnicula on Sep 2, 2001 11:09 AM ]
posted on September 2, 2001 11:13:58 AM new
On the other hand, I believe that some of the complaints against police are just plain ridiculous. Sorry, if your dear sonny boy commits a crime & during the process he gets shot, I have no sympathy. If you point a gun or charge at a police officer with any weapon (gun, knife, pipe, screwdiver, etc.), don't expect sympathy when you get shot.
posted on September 2, 2001 11:22:04 AM new
I have contacts with three separate agency officers at least twice a week. For the most part in two of those agency's officers I can easily see that they approach their jobs with a high level of professionalism and pride. One of those is the California Highway Patrol. The other two are city cops, one in a major metropolitan area in which there is a nationally recognised high level of crime and violent crime, the others are from a smaller suburban city. The officers from the large city are to a man, as far as I have contact with them, insular, suspicious, and arrogant to the point of an overly quick antagonism. Some of that is due to the nature of the city which employs them. But some too is due to the leadership within their department having encouraged or perhaps enforced them to be the way they are. Almost all of them are kids and power goes to the head of kids if they are supported. They do break laws in that city and I'm sure that you would have no trouble knowing which city it is (not LA) because you have heard of the violations committed there and it has at least caused to ask what is going on up there. Even from as far away as you are, Katy, you have your attitude about the police in that town affected--prredisposed perhaps to assume the worst. Isn't that somewhat understandable in a person, a member of the interested public?
So then do we make judgement upon members of the populace in areas where there is known to be police misconduct? Maybe, but maybe too we are not quite so harsh with those people because we all share, even from a distance, what is affecting them at home.
I think of you, Katy, as being perhaps twice as bright and human as some of the louder mouths in here, so I think that you can see what I mean even though my expression of it has been somewhat choppy today.
If you can accept even part of what I've just said then consider these links:
