posted on September 6, 2001 08:33:13 PM new
I was having a conversation with someone the other day. The topic came up regarding American history, and a couple of wars that the USA was involved in. The first was the Revolutionary War, and the second was World War Two.
From the American perspective, in the Revolutionary War we have learned that the US won independence from England. In American schools we are taught that the US won and that England lost. We have a few people here on AW from England. Please advise how students in England are taught on this. I believe that the British call it the War of Separation. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Please, let's all keep in mind that England and the USA are allies today and have been for many, many years.
Does anyone out there have any idea of how German children are schooled on the happenings of WW2, and it's final ending?
posted on September 7, 2001 12:01:49 PM new
I don't have a good answer to your question other than we had a German girl as an exchange student for a year about 6 years ago. She said very little about the war other than her Grandfather fought in the war and was a POW and was sent to a camp in the US...she said he liked it here! She was more interested in Vietnam and the American involvement there.
On the other hand, my daughter's mother-in-law is German and lived there through the war. She immigrated to the US as a young adult in the early 60s. All she has to say about the time is the shortages and deprivations that the citizens endured. She did mention that the children from her village were sent to the country and out of the town when the bombings started. Otherwise, I have never heard her express a political/historical opinion on WWII.
I wonder how the Japanese handle teaching WWII to their students. I know they are more sensative about the entire event especially with the atom bomb.
Interesting to ponder. Every country puts a spin on history to fit their view/needs....just would be interesting to know tho.
posted on September 7, 2001 02:18:36 PM new
Actually I wonder what they tell OUR students about WWII.
Quite a few of the young people I know get all confused about the difference between WWI - WWII - Korea and even Vietnam.
Most of them can not tell you which nations were on which side and very very few could tell you where things happened - the battles and events - even if you gave them a map. Talking about the causes is way too difficult.
I feel that a person who can not sit with a big sheet of paper and draw a recognizable map of the world with the basic features labeled is illiterate. To expect them to fill in the political boundries and the important mountain chains or rivers - the language usage or stratigic resources is a dream only.
posted on September 7, 2001 03:51:06 PM new
Yeager, a friend of mine was living in Germany in the mid to late 80s, and her daughter went to German schools. When her daughter was 11, she came home and asked her mom and dad about WWII. What she had been told was "the Allies came and bombed the heck out of Germany." My friend checked further, and students weren't taught details about WWII until college level.
But, this is from the late 80s, so things might have changed.
posted on September 7, 2001 06:53:41 PM new
gravid: I agree with you totally. I taught geography to incoming college freshman. On the first day, in a quicky quiz, I'd ask them to name the Great Lakes (since this was in MI, I figured this would be so easy....wrong!), at least four seas (just pick colors.. ie. red, black, yellow) and then for extra credit name all 50 states...gosh we have 50!!! 'Twas sad.
posted on September 7, 2001 10:41:42 PM new
margot - I remember when we moved to North Carolina for a couple years I was
surprised when they took us in school buses to the state capital and some of these
grade school kids were thrilled out of their gourds and some were actually scared -
because they had never been out of the county! We were 40 miles from the ocean and
some of them had never seen it. No wonder their world was so small. To them I was
as foreign as someone from Europe.
posted on September 8, 2001 12:23:40 AM new
I speak some German and I have some German friends but have never thought to ask them this question. I don't know how they would take it. They may be offended. I know a woman who said she hated Hitler and everything he standed for, and that he ruined Germany.
Another eldery woman, Trudy, who was originally from Holland once told me that they ate anything to stay alive. I will never forget her facial expression and the anger in her voice when she told me, At times we only had sugar beets to eat. They were so sweet and I hated them, but we had to eat them to stay alive. She made these remarks while she was holding her hands up to her mouth as if she was eating one.
Another man told me, "we ate stray cats and dogs to stay alive."
I was born in 1958 and of course didn't live during this time, but it must of been horrible.
posted on September 8, 2001 02:10:49 AM new
We lived in the Netherlands and every Dutch person we knew-without exception-hated the Germans. We also had a German friend who lived in the Netherlands and she detested the Dutch because they hated her simply because she was German.
True story: The small town in which we lived was one of the towns along the "Hell's Highway" from Eindhoven to Arnhem. In 1994, to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the event, Allied veterans driving WWII vehicles re-enacted the drive. It was like the entire town was there, lined up along both sides of the street, cheering and waving little flags as though it were the real thing(We dragged the kittens, complaining and whining, to the celebration, but by the halfway point they were waving their flags and cheering as well). It really brought home the history of the area to us.
One thing I've learned from living in Europe is that Memorial Day is more than the unofficial first day of summer and a day off to most Europeans. It is a solemn day or remembrance.
posted on September 8, 2001 03:59:11 AM new
"the battles and events - even if you gave them a map."
Gravid, I must differ that this is really important to the average person. Yes, they should know what the war was about, the basic events, the outcome, the time period. Unless you have an interest in the details, or plan to major in history, it's just too much to expect every detail to memory. I seek a larger view as the goal in general.
This last year or so, we have covered the details of battles in ancient China, the battles of the Mongols, the battles of African empires, the battles of ancient Rome and Greece, and Egypt, and the Arabs....with all the rulers of all those places and the dates they ruled. Plus the Civil War and the Revolutionary War and the Spanish American War, etc. History of other cultures IS increasingly more important as we become more global. This was 6th grade history. (Add Math, Bible, Science, Health, Foreign Language, Computer, Grammar, Geography, Vocabulary, Handwriting, Creative Writing, Art, Music, Spelling, PE and "Life Skills"...plus read a novel and extra curricular activities...every day.)
We were not expected to learn "keyboarding", or HTML, or Amercian Sign Language, or Latin, or study "theories of traditional logic" and educational philosophy and methods all prior to 6th grade...and we CERTAINLY were not engaged in "writing about math"...we simply DID MATH.
Genetic Engineering, World Interdependance/Current Problems/and Issues, and Geographical Dialects are now listed as a 10 grade material. Development and production of a class current events newspaper is first grade material. (When did you learn to read before you entered into newspaper production???) The steps of the scientific method are covered in 2nd grade.
To my daughter, who was born near the end of 1988, WWI is ANCIENT history. The Cold War is ancient history. Last night she told me that she is "Generation Z...one of those kids that teethed on the keyboard".
It's just different now...and for quite a few very specific details, "search" works very very well and only takes 30 seconds.
T
"sit with a big sheet of paper and draw a recognizable map of the world with the basic features labeled.... To expect them to fill in the political boundries and the important mountain chains or rivers - the language usage or stratigic resources is a dream only."
Now actually, my 12 year old CAN do this...but just don't ask her to name any specific battles in WWI.
posted on September 8, 2001 05:08:27 AM new
Very interesting topic! My hubby is British, so I asked him what he was taught regarding the Revolutionary War, he said that when he was in school, because of the long history of the UK, they were given a choice of whether to study "Kings and Queens" or "Industrial History". He chose the industrial history and said that they did not even mention the Revolutionary War, that it was probably covered in the Kings and Queens classes, and then was more than likely only a short paragraph in their books given the huge amount of history of the UK.
We, also, were in Holland in the early 60s. (My dad was military) Being of German heritage and having a very strong and obvious German name at that time, I can attest to the fact that the Dutch hated Germans. Of course at 9 and 10 years old, I had a hard time understanding why these people hated me just because of my last name. Especially since my Great Grandfather was shot while getting his family out of Germany during the war and he hated the Nazis as much as the Dutch did. We attended school on the AFB there, so I have no idea what the Dutch or Germans are taught regarding the War. However, I do know that I learned a whole lot about tolerance and the pain that prejudice can cause.
posted on September 8, 2001 07:25:28 AM new
Just for the heck of it last night I browsed a couple of search engines (google & dogpile), looking for history sites originating in the UK. Spent about 45 minutes. In that time, I found only three British sites that discussed the "War for American Independence." Other than that every single British history site I visited simply never mentioned it. They talk about that time period but never about the Revolution. Strange. Of the sites that did talk about it, one was a British online encyclopedia (Hutchinson Family Encyclopedia) which provided a short article that presents the facts in a fairly neutral tone; the next was a BBC.com site that went into more depth and was mostly neutral but did chide the British government of the day for being short-sighted & heavy-handed. The last site was a bit odd (& I wish that I'd copied the url) in that it blamed the American Revolution on religion--it was a paper written by a professor for students in something called A+ levels.
posted on September 8, 2001 08:11:21 AM new
jt - That is pretty nice for a 12 year old to be able to do that. I have to agree that getting down to the specific battles and personalities is a bit much if you don't have reason to know. Perhaps more important is to understand how the nature of conflict changed from one war to the other because of mechanization and communication. Your 12 year old will be way ahead of her peers when it comes to understanding the news and how it effects her.
posted on September 8, 2001 11:45:55 PM new
lrlover,
Your comments about your German last name cause me to remember a story my grandmother told me about 25 years ago.
Her parents were from Austria, and came to this country in 1903. The primary language of Austria is German. When my Great Grandparents came to this country, they gained their U.S. citizenship and lived here until they died. As a child, I remember my Great Grandmothers having a very strong German accent.
This story is about the time during WW2, Great Gramma was at a grocery store and waiting in line for the clerk to wait on her. The lady in front was finished and left, it was her turn to be waited on. Everything was fine until she spoke to the clerk. The man behind her noticed that she spoke with a German accent and started insulting her and only finished when he spat on her.
The only thing this person failed to recoginize is that she was an American and never a German.
[ edited by yeager on Sep 8, 2001 11:53 PM ]
[ edited by yeager on Sep 9, 2001 12:29 AM ]
posted on September 9, 2001 04:45:55 AM new
Yeager - Yes, here we were, American citizens, spoke English with no accent, but just had this certain last name. I must add that not all Dutch had this attitude. We met one really nice gentleman that would make sure my sister and I made it safely and without hassles to school every morning. (We had to ride a city bus part of the way and he rode with us). We even sent and received Christmas cards to and from him for years after we returned to the states.
My Oma and Opa also told of stories about how they were treated when they came to the states. Although, I don't know if anything that rash and degrading was done to either of them personally. If it was, they didn't tell us about it. Most of their experiences was from government authorities. My Opa kept his membership with some German organization and consequently at some point, the government came and confiscated all electronics out of the house and forbid them to purchase any more until after the war. He was a clock maker and they were concerned that he would build a radio to transmit to Germany or something.
posted on September 9, 2001 08:21:22 AM new
Tonight, HBO will show part one of the Mini-series Band of Brothers. If you have HBO, I suggest you watch it.
For those that want to know the history of World War II through the eyes of those that fought it. This is as real as it gets.
