posted on September 18, 2001 09:31:15 PM new
Of course...
DIVISIONS have begun to emerge within the Bush
administration between the hawks favouring an
all-out war against regimes that harbour terrorists
and moderates favouring far more limited action.
Paul Wolfowitz, the Pentagon deputy, has said
American policy should be about "ending states
sponsor terrorism". By contrast, Colin Powell, the
Secretary of State, and many diplomats have argued
that America should not be seen to over-react.
Gen Powell has stressed that Washington is "not
threatening" other nations, even those "serving as
a haven" for America's opponents. The enemy is,
very often, right here in our own country," he said
on Friday. "So . . . it isn't always blunt military force"
that will do the fighting.
posted on September 18, 2001 10:10:04 PM new
There should be tension between a diplomat and a military man. It's a sign of health. Be concerned when Powell sounds harshly militaristic, or when the Pentagon sounds too wimpish.
posted on September 18, 2001 10:43:48 PM new
Didn't the link work?
"The differences of opinion have their roots in the
Gulf war. At that time Gen Powell, who was chairman
of the joint chiefs of staff, helped to persuade
President George Bush Snr not to invade Iraq with
ground forces.
Mr Wolfowitz, as Under-Secretary of Defence for
Policy, was over-ruled when he pressed for American
troops to push forward to Baghdad and has
bemoaned the lost opportunity to oust Saddam
Hussein ever since.
Vice-President Dick Cheney, then Secretary of
Defence, also argued that Iraq should be invaded.
He, Mr Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld, now at the
helm at the Pentagon, spent the first months of the
Bush administration trying to press for a more
forceful policy against Iraq."
posted on September 19, 2001 03:18:23 AM new
Well, I think this at least shows that there's nothing unpatriotic about having a differing viewpoint, even in a time of crisis. The idea that people should agree, as a matter of duty, is, at least, unsophisticated.
I'd read the other day, I can't remember where, that Colin Powell had opposed Wolfowitz being brought into the adminstration, but that then, as now, he was alone, and was overruled. In the same article was talk of Condoleeza Rice's effort to gain position back then, maneuvering in relation to Rumsfeld.
But, of course, it's going to be the Old White Guys who prevail. It always has been, and how could it be otherwise now with Cheney in charge, a real cold package and, with his weekly heart attacks and suit that he must have been born in, just about the epitomy of old white guyedness.
It's going to be interesting to see how long Powell can stand up or how long, when he sees its no use, he'll be willing to be used as a token to be trotted out to placate the American electorate and world leaders. And, how long the adminstration will think they need him. He might be jettisoned for the next election, or before, if Bush's approval rating stays high enough.
posted on September 19, 2001 05:29:42 AM new
The reason for my interest in this is that it was Powell who prevailed as a military advisor over Irag with the father and now Powell who is at the point of being overruled as a statesman with the son.
Did daddy resent Powell's influence? Does he blame Powell in part for his failure to win reelection? Is this payback?
posted on September 19, 2001 06:04:19 AM new
I have the idea that payback is never very much a consideration for this group. Payback is emotional, it has to do with sentiment. It's for saps.
Politcal usefulness is king. They use people and discard them. The great part is that the ones they discard are willing to come back and be used again if the need arises. James Baker is a case in point. He complained, even while working for Bush senior, that they treated him "like a g-d- butler." (his phrasing.) Yet, when he could be of use in the recount thing, they called him back and he rushed right in, even though the Bushes, especially Barbara, still hated him, he knew it, and he felt the same.
So I don't think it's "payback" like we understand it. This is a cold, calculating bunch, they don't let mushy emotions get in the way.
posted on September 19, 2001 06:42:49 AM new
C'mon Donny, you just said "they called him back and he rushed right in, even though the Bushes, especially Barbara, still hated him, he knew it, and he felt the same" while denying an emotional content. What more sublime payback can you imagine than for Baker to be brought up to work for his enemy? If the hatred is real his work for them could eat at him for the rest of his life. They shoved his principals up his yazoo, and let him apply the pressure.
posted on September 19, 2001 06:52:50 AM new
Powell has very deep respect for the chain of command and remarkable patience at being repeatedly overruled.
posted on September 19, 2001 07:22:51 AM new
Yes, Baker hated the Bushes because they treated him like dirt, and the Bushes hated Baker because they blamed him for Bush not getting re-elected.
But the thing is, they don't "hate" the way us regular people understand it, this isn't "real." It's cold and unemotional, detached from the business at hand. It's different, the only thing that matters is usefulness.
Look at what happened at the National church service a few days ago. Bush called Gore from wherever he was in Europe to come and make an appearance, and Gore came, flying to Canada and driving to D.C. Did two politicians ever "hate" each other more? But it was deemed politically useful to get Gore to come, and Gore decided it was politically useful to be there.
posted on September 19, 2001 07:37:26 AM new
Usefulness, sure. But they could have brought someone else. Instead they opted to take the iceing on the cake, because they'd waited ten years for a shot at it. I don't find a conflict between cold calculation and emotionality.
posted on September 19, 2001 11:07:57 AM new
Fire and Ice
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
Robert Frost
Colin Powell has great popular appeal and trust, both at home and abroad, and is the only true moderate in a key administrative position. The hope of forming any sort of meaningful alliance and favorable world view rests with Powell. Much of the subsequent success of the war on terrorism will be determined by the procedure that is followed, as well as the success of, the actions in Afghanistan. From the steps that are being taken so far, despite the rhetoric, Powell's more pragmatic position is being followed for the present, even if in the views of Powell himself, more extreme action is inevitable. The bottom line, of course, is that bin Laden has to be taken out.
Regardless of the ties that almost certainly exist, Iraq is a much more complicated matter.
posted on September 19, 2001 11:34:50 AM new
Powell is keeping the world together during this world wide threat to civilization. Let us all hope that Powell with his well informed and reasoned policy will prevail.
posted on September 19, 2001 11:43:33 AM new
Yes, thank goodness President Bush had the intelligence and the integrity needed to place such a fine and like-minded man in this important position. It's just icing on the cake that their family's also have such a close, personal relationship as well. I've also considered Condoleeza Rice to be a superb choice.
posted on September 19, 2001 02:32:41 PM newAntiquary Most of the country isn't aware of the history of Colin Powell and GW Bush. They're actually identical twins but were accidently separated at birth.
Helen I can understand your need to criticize Bush - but when you criticize icing and cake......... you're really going too far.
posted on September 19, 2001 03:11:53 PM new
Aren't some of the same people heaping blessings on St Colin that are angry that Bush didn't finish off Hussein so we wouldn't have to deal with him again??
Hmmm, but I thought Powell was the guy who convinced Bush to stop the war because the nightly massacre scenes on American TV of the road out of Kuwait was making us look bad. Schwarzkopf was said to have been "astounded" since he was about to surround 2 Republican Guard armies.
