kcpick4u
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posted on February 26, 2002 08:00:16 PM new
Enjoy your freedom while you can!http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20020226/ts/human_computer_chip_2.html
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Borillar
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posted on February 26, 2002 10:25:07 PM new
U.S. to Weigh Computer Chip Implant
"Other uses of the technology on the horizon, from an added device that would allow satellite tracking of an individual's every movement to the storage of sensitive data like medical records, are already attracting interest across the globe for tasks like foiling kidnappings or assisting paramedics."
Do you STILL feel like voting Republican? Are you convinced yet?
Borillar
"Real friends don't let friends vote republican"
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yeahoksure
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posted on February 26, 2002 10:56:31 PM new
Yes, if the right Republican comes up at election time, sure
What did this have to do with voting Repubican?
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REAMOND
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posted on February 26, 2002 11:42:23 PM new
Putting chips in people will give a whole new playground for hackers.
In fact, hackers will make useless any "security" benefits that the chip might resolve.
I can just imagine the mayhem hackers will cause if we begin chipping humans.
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DeSquirrel
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posted on February 27, 2002 02:06:59 PM new
This all started with medical and id records. Instead of medic alert necklaces your medical records, drugs, etc would all be encoded. It was also proposed for soldiers for "dog tag" type info and identification of bodies. The other stuff is just an extension of these initial ideas. If you have an implantable chip then there are all kinds of applications you can add to them. Security clearance cards that can't be left home and so forth. You really have nothing to "hack", that's the attraction for the security applications. My cat has a chip in case he gets lost and most vets have a reader.
Borillar you can stop the silly one-note stuff. It's been around for years (you know Clinton days) and it's here to stay. If you don't want one don't buy it.
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REAMOND
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posted on February 27, 2002 02:52:32 PM new
You sure can hack these chips. They've already done it to game consoles and DVD players, and these are more complicated than the chips to be embedded.
The chips apparently are just an ID that is used to call up info from a database, I don't think they will have RAM capabilities, but they may.
Either way, hackers can breach the system. They can reproduce the chip ID or change the RAM info in an already embedded chip.
Anything that can be done with digital program technology can be changed, or replicated.
A digital security chip presents more danger if it is breached since everyone will accept without challenge the information the chip provides.
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Borillar
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posted on February 27, 2002 06:36:30 PM new
"What did this have to do with voting Repubican?"
A Democratic Administration or other non-Fascist party would be repulsed by this idea. Republican politicans on the other hand, love the idea of being able to control people to the extreme! And that if everyone stops voting for these bastards in Washington, then we won't have much to worry about concerning the abuse of this tecnology.
"Borillar you can stop the silly one-note stuff. It's been around for years (you know Clinton days) and it's here to stay. If you don't want one don't buy it."
You are being short-sighted, DeSquirrel. You know as well as the rest of us that when you give the government an inch, they take a light-year. All that this Corporate Fascist governement of ours wants is a crack in the door reason to introduce this chip to the public. First, it'll be for illegal immigrants. Who'll want to oppose that? Then, with that success, they'll move onto the Millitary and Convicts - all for our own good. Then, it will get commercialized and we'll end up with this chip the same way that we are with Social Security numbers. Then, when the Fascists in governement want a complete takeover, they'll just track anyone who protests and make them wish that they were dead.
Do you doubt that this is what's going to happen?
Borillar
"Real friends don't let friends vote republican"
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bunnicula
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posted on February 28, 2002 12:52:34 PM new
I must say that I share Borillar's sentiments on this one. It sounds benign now, but I shudder at a future in which the government could keep track of a person every second of the day. That would be open to abuses of all sorts. What is even more scary is how easy it would be to get people to buy into it--all the PTB would have to say is "it's for the CHILDREN and their safety" and people would be rushing to get their children implanted. Within 20-30 years almost the entire population would be trackable.
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krs
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posted on February 28, 2002 02:18:40 PM new
That's right. To your misguided advise, desquirrel, that anyone who doesn't like it needn't buy one I'd remind you of the myriad ways of making life difficult for any who don't have one that can be devised.
I once decided, in 1970 that I would not have an identification card. The state had given me a choice after an accident of either posting an extraordinary bond or giving up my driver's license. I had no need to have a car and liked my money so I gave up my license. No longer having a car, riding a bicycle everywhere I went over distances of up to 50 miles I thought why should I be identified? As a sop to those who would have me so I had a wallet sized copy of my birth certificate made and carried that. Nope, not good enough - it didn't have a NUMBER!!
Without a a form of identification ACCEPTABLE BY THE SYSTEMS AT HAND I found that many mundane things can not be done. Accounts can't be opened, checks can't be cashed, credit can't be established, and so on and on and on.
So they will install modern state of the art systems for all sorts of stuff that require an implant to use. Without one you'll be stuck.
The extent to which this could develop is almost beyond my imagination but it has those with a need for a sense of order chortling with anticipatory glee. It will offer a way to make sense of the world that anyone of the mindset that could tout republican ideals will accept as the way things should have been all along. With the expert marketting concerns available and that repuiblican politicians use without embarrassment to get elected, a campaign to paint anyone who does not comply as less than normal will begin.
Once enough republicans have implants, laws will be presented to gradually make implants necessary for several things, including the ability to vote. 'It's your choice, your right to vote, but first we have to know who you are and the only way we have to do that is this one - by implant reads.' You will still be able to object, go ahead. Have a demonstration. But we no longer have a way to record your vote except by these implants. Now that you don't vote, who cares? You'd have voted against us anyway. Right?
I know by now, desquirrel, that it is futile to hope that you could understand the implications of this thing, this horror, but maybe someone else will.
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alwaysbroke
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posted on February 28, 2002 06:32:26 PM new
This is a very frighteningly, possible event. I remember hearing that it would be implanted in pets (eases the minds of loving pet owners). Now it is here. I heard that they would like to use it in alzheimer patients that just wander off and disappear for days (doesn't that sound good?). They already offer free fingerprinting for tots (mine had it done at a community yard sale!). It could be offered at the school just like immunizations.
I never thought of using the chip for voting. I guess you'd have to be careful not to speak too loudly against a gov't official. They could find you, right?
Implant immigrants? Sounds like a good safety measure when watching for terrorists. But what is the definition of terrorist? Any one who______(fill in the blank), Any one who believes________. Thought police?
No chips for me and hold the dip(unless they add memory space to my brain!  )
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Borillar
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posted on February 28, 2002 10:16:42 PM new
For those of you that are undecided on this issue, or you know people who are undecided, please remind them of this one thing: That Security comes from having MORE Rights and MORE Freedoms. Giving up your Rights and Freedoms to the State DOES NOT MAKE YOU MORE SECURE -- IT MAKES YOU A SLAVE!
Borillar
"Real friends don't let friends vote republican"
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saabsister
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posted on March 1, 2002 06:50:49 AM new
I see far too many avenues for abuse. My fingerprints have been on file with the FBI since I was eight years old and my father was an agent. I'll have to ask him why he fingerprinted us - maybe it was ease of "identifying the body" (he was a NY agent in the South)or maybe a fascination with the technology. But whatever it was, my sisters' and my prints are on file unnecessarily - none of us chose to give the FBI our prints, none of us took jobs where they were required, and none of us committed a crime to warrant having them taken.
Our Social Security numbers aren't supposed to be used for identification but the use of them on a driver's license has become commonplace. And try cashing a check with ease without a DL, military ID or state ID.
It's a slippery slope. Because the technology is there, someone will find other uses for it beyond medical records.
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Borillar
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posted on March 1, 2002 07:41:26 AM new
Implementing solutions like these are far easier and cheaper than simply trying to address and to fix the problem of ID Fraud.
Quick and easy solutions that work RIGHT NOW is what everyone weants -- right?
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DeSquirrel
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posted on March 1, 2002 09:24:46 AM new
These devices are read only and have quite limited application. You could never justify a wide range distribution, nor would this ever be sellable to the general population. They are hack resistant for several reasons. First is there is no reason to hack them (Who cares if you're blood type "O" and for security applications they can be encrypted.
I can't see why anyone would catch an illegal alien and then spend a fortune to "implant" him. Hell, our courts don't even allow forcing criminals to have cop' bullets removed for inspection.
These devices don't really fit well in the Machiavelli model. This aspect is better suited to fingerprint readers and retinal scanners.
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REAMOND
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posted on March 1, 2002 01:07:22 PM new
What the h*ll is "hack resistant" ? Every piece of security put out there has thus far been hacked.
Even if they used 128+ security, the keys would have to be in human hands in many places and at many levels.
Why embed the chip for security? Just put it on the picture ID.
The chip would also be easy to replicate- all you need is the technology and info on a chip to replicate it.
Imagine putting chips in airport security personel. All you need to do is get a few employees on the take, read their chips, replicate and insert them into someone else and you then have complete access to the airport.
The bottom line is that the govt and everyone else has all the info they need.
What we need are people smart enough to use it effectivly.
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auroranorth
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posted on March 3, 2002 07:07:33 PM new
desquirrel I know where you can put that chip,
actually if they did onl;y politicians first say for 2 years would this track billy to the bedroom or george to the gorge ?
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gk4495
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posted on March 6, 2002 03:11:53 PM new
"A Democratic Administration or other non-Fascist party would be repulsed by this idea"
Which would be why the Democrats are so hot to ignore the Second Amendment and continually place new restrictions on gun ownership with the goal in mind of making gun ownership completely illegal. To my way of thinking, a party that wants the citizery disarmed is a Fascist party.
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krs
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posted on March 6, 2002 05:25:15 PM new
What you don't know is that licensed firearms dealers are being ignored when the time for renewal of their license comes. Very quietly their numbers are being reduced across the country bu the Bush administration. Further, restrictions on ammunition sales are being imposed now, which were proposed and denied during the Clinton administration. Your boy, and all of his minions, are talking out of the sides of their mouths and you believe them.
The restrictive legislation proposed by such whackos as Diane Feinstien never made it out of committee during Clinton but are now being implimented in effect by the non-action of BATF in several types of cases.
You see, Clinton saw guns as part of a larger problem which is crime. None of the inconveniences placed into law were designed to take away all guns. They were designed only to make in more difficult for criminals to obtain them through legal methods.
Do you like crime? Are you willing to accept the levels of crime in this country so that you can FEEL as though you are free to own guns more than you would FEEL after having gone through hoops to get one?
The Clinton administration did nothing to restrict my ownership of guns at all. My state of residence did that, and did that largely while in a republican administration. At least as much during that as during the other kind.
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gravid
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posted on March 6, 2002 07:48:40 PM new
If these chips are needed to enter an area or use a teller machine don't forget that a brute force or social hack is as good as a programing hack.
If you need a chip to get on an airplane you waylay an airport worker and a few minutes work with a knife will yield his chip.
then you will have to worry that if someone robs you for your teller card they may kill you to cut your chip out of you. A lot of biometric systems have this weakness also.
Need a thumb print to enter? Just cut the guys thumb off.
Not nice huh?
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Borillar
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posted on March 6, 2002 09:32:19 PM new
You know how it is with republican voters, KRS:
Drums beat: >>BOOM!<< >>BOOM!<< >>BOOM!<<
Cheerleaders: "That's OK, That's Alright ... just get out there and fight, Fight, FIGHT!"
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auroranorth
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posted on March 7, 2002 09:15:56 PM new
or both major parties, two four six eight we will make you intergrate.
you will be assimilated, resistance is futile.
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alwaysbroke
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posted on March 8, 2002 04:01:30 AM new
Could we download new information instead of going back to school?
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krs
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posted on March 8, 2002 04:15:26 AM new
"few minutes work with a knife will yield his chip"
That's certainly true. In any city half of the people you might pass by in several sections of town are capable of harvesting chips from nearly everyone they see.
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alwaysbroke
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posted on March 8, 2002 04:42:33 AM new
That certainly gives "harvesting" a ghoulish definition.
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gravid
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posted on March 8, 2002 01:02:59 PM new
Thank goodness there are some controls or they would be doing the same thing with organ transplants. If you could sell a kidney no questions asked I wouldn't take a walk in the park.
I was working today in a neighborhood like Ken is talking about. They had razor wire around the parking lot fence. Scary.
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auroranorth
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posted on March 8, 2002 01:34:56 PM new
yes there are lots of these neighborhoods, this is getting out of control. it is not going to go away no matter how much is blacked out of the news. somehow I want to know why it is so expensive to execute a crimminal ? why filing the papers does not cost that much, why are we allowing a crimminal gang the bar association to hold safety of our cities hostage to their malpractice, it's insane. put control of the conduct of legal affairs back into consumer protection and if the bar association wants to be a fraternity fine. right now they hardly enforce their own laws, I strongly suggest chargeing them under rico for conspiring to deprive entire states of justice. by refusing to enforce their own rules. they must be disbanded and the worst offenders jailed. Once we have dealth with their crimminal misconduct cleaning up the streets will be a cinch. charge the crips the bloods the crazy homicide sisters and the rest of the neandertthals with rico, then steralize them them jail them
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Borillar
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posted on March 8, 2002 10:16:25 PM new
"Could we download new information instead of going back to school?"
It's the truth of things, alwaysbroke. Just because we point out some facts that show these Republican politicans for the hoodlums that they are, their voters easily dismiss it with a wave of their hand and go back to cheering for their "team". That Right and Wrong only applies with that they are "morally" right and that everyone else is "morally" wrong is the only nonsense that they have for a political opinion. My next door neighbor, a young family man, is a republican. He made the comment about Bush: "Well, at least He's a Christian!" I asked him which past Presidents were not and the name Cltin was on his lips when he realized how stupid that slogan was. So it is not a matter of fighting for the lives and minds of voters by logical and factual arguements -- it's really a matter of slogans. That's why I always say that I'm here to rally the troops and not to convince slow-thinkers of the truth.
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stockticker
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posted on March 10, 2002 09:20:16 AM new
The nation's cell phone service providers will soon know exactly where every one of their customers is, at all times, and privacy rights groups are asking what they plan to do with the information.
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-846959.html
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gravid
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posted on March 10, 2002 09:49:36 AM new
I have exaimined this issue in a science fiction book I am writing and concluded that the kids would be the first ones to figure out how to "trade presence" You give your phone or credit card to a friend to take away and use while you are off somewhere else.
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auroranorth
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posted on March 23, 2002 07:37:17 PM new
Teenagers are pretty funny, reminds me of when I was younger, they sure will find every trick even the old ones
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