katmommy
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posted on March 8, 2002 07:20:08 AM new
Anyone in other parts of the country (I'm in the northeast) notice that EVERYONE is getting or has gotten sick this winter and the illnesses are far from the usual winter germ? I'm getting over a strange bug that consisted of a severe sore throat for 4 days, headache and swollen glands. What the h*** is THAT called!!
MEOW
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Borillar
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posted on March 8, 2002 08:07:47 AM new
It's a virus with the nasties, alrighty. It's here in the Pacaific Northwest and everywhere else in the country. I heard on the news about it the other day. The average adult takes 5 to 6 weeks to be fully over it.
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outoftheblue
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posted on March 8, 2002 09:47:26 AM new
My daughter came down with a nasty bug a few weeks ago and missed almost a week of school. Fortunately my wife and I seem to be immune to most things that come our way.
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gravid
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posted on March 8, 2002 12:56:19 PM new
Yes - wie never gets sick and has been coughing for a month. gets better for 3 or 4 days and fever comes back. Went through 3 rounds of antibiotics for secondary infections.
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Valleygirl
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posted on March 8, 2002 01:41:34 PM new
I posted this question a few months ago, and I'm still sick. But my symptoms are different.
I have a chronic cough, congestion comes and goes and I have no energy. Oh, and a constant need to clear my throat. But no fever. All this since end September/First October.
First three months, revolving door with Physician's Assistants. All telling me allergies. Every medication they gave me triggered migraines. My endocrinologist sent me for tests which ruled out TB, Valley Fever, Pneumonia, and Cancer. Allergist ruled out allergies and asthma.
But to be on the safe side, washed all bedding, gave cat a bath, and bought an air cleaner for the bedroom.
Neurologist (migraine Dr) dropped one medication and increased another. I can barely get through the day.
Not my name on ebay.
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alwaysbroke
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posted on March 8, 2002 01:42:57 PM new
We are in the northeast. My daughter missed almost a week of school with severe throat infection. Took 10 days of antib's. Next week she starting all over again and had to take a new course of antib's.
That never happened 2 weeks in a row before.
My husband's entire family (huge family) got severely ill, and it took a very long time to finally go away.
I've had some friends that mentioned needing several weeks to recover from similar illness.
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bunnicula
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posted on March 8, 2002 11:22:21 PM new
A big part of the problem is that our obsession with being ultra-hygienic is disrupting our immune systems.
http://www.cyberpunks.org/display/526/old/
http://www.salon.com/health/feature/2000/05/04/germ_warfare_two/print.html
http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc99/8_14_99/bob2.htm
http://www.salon.com/health/feature/2000/06/23/antibacterial/print.html
http://www.parenthoodweb.com/parent_cfmfiles/pros.cfm?n=2002
http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/baby/newborns/12447.html
http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Health_Care/too_clean.htm
http://www.socgenmicrobiol.org.uk/QUA/mtnov01.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/survival/enemy/discuss_04.html
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rawbunzel
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posted on March 8, 2002 11:37:32 PM new
Hi Bunnicula, That is really true.I quit being so ultra hygenic several years ago when I saw information on the Japanese and the troubles they were having with bacteria because of the over use of anti-bacterial products. My parents always used to say they wondered how they had lived so long since they didn't know they were supposed to be so clean all the time ~even played in mud holes as children. I think that is the very reason they were healthy,they built up immunities. We give too many vaccines and keep our kids too clean and our food too~ in many places they still leave things like meat right out in the open and never give it a thought and they don't get sick from it. I am not dirty by any means but I don't wash everything down with bleach or anti-bacterial soap anymore either. [I'm not brave enough to eat meat that's been left out]
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REAMOND
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posted on March 9, 2002 01:25:21 AM new
Vaccines aren't a problem, they actually stimulate the immune responce, that's how the immunity is developed.
But there are some studies that suggest that a very clean environment for young children does impact their immune system and how it developes.
Getting sick and exposed to "germs" is what builds a "library" for the immune system.
Some Asthma studies have suggested that the clean environment children are in may be responsible for Asthma. Dust and pollutants is many third world areas are far higher yet their children aren't getting asthma at the high U.S. rates. The only difference seen was the hygine in the third world was much lower and babies were exposed to pathogens at much greater rates and at a younger age.
That what doesn't kill us, may indeed make us stronger.
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tomwiii
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posted on March 9, 2002 04:47:27 AM new
FOOD SAFETY: I've always been fastcinated by my friends from Ecuador who DO NOT practice very good food storage rules. Cooked meats are left un-covered & un-refrigerated for HOURS!
BUT...they NEVER get sick!!?? I'm always afraid to eat any leftovers there! This is all very interesting!
"Food,glorious FOOD!" from "Oliver!"
I just ADORE gig files!
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barbarake
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posted on March 9, 2002 05:58:05 AM new
There does seem to be a lot of people getting sick this year. We've been lucky - one son got a fever/sore throat (missed 3 days of school) and the other son missed a day because of something similar. I took a sick day too. But that's it so I guess that's not bad.
My house is not exactly hygenic - in other words, I wouldn't advise eating off the floors <grin>. Two kids, two big dogs, three cats and a busy mother don't exactly equate to spotless house. <grin>
But I'm doing this on purpose!! I want to build up my children's immune system.
(That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!)
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katmommy
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posted on March 9, 2002 06:36:01 AM new
I'm relieved it's just not me then! I, being one of self healing didnt go to a doctor yet for this throat infection but I might be heading that way. The thing is..I think antibiotics are WAY overused and would rather not take them. Well..I'm glad that all of us that feel like crap can congregate in this forum and still not make eachother sick.
Feel better all!
MEOW
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katmommy
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posted on March 9, 2002 06:37:52 AM new
alwaysbroke:
I had a feeling from reading many of your posts that you were from the northeast too. Where are you near without giving it away to the world? LOL
MEOW
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snowyegret
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posted on March 9, 2002 10:10:01 AM new
For those who think cleanliness is a bad thing:
The biggest advance in public health was the improvement in sanitation - plumbing, clean water, ect.
The third world has a very high infant and child mortality rate compared to the industrialized nations. Can you say cholera epidemic? Not to mention kids dying of diarrhea. And the lack of diagnostics in such areas.
As to asthma, some studies say it's triggered especially by cockroach feces. A recent study cited by the LA Times shows kids who exercise outdoors in areas with high ozone levels (pollution) have a higher incidence of asthma than those who exercise outdoors in areas of less ozone concentration.
As to getting sick, microbes mutate. Some will become more virulent.
And that's the good news. 
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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stockticker
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posted on March 9, 2002 11:01:45 AM new
The last time I had a cold was 2 or 3 years ago.
I've only had a headache perhaps 4 or 5 times in my entire life (the last time about 25 years ago).
The last time I had the flu I was maybe 13.
I haven't even had hayfever for the last 5 years since I moved from the East.
As a child I had all the usual ailments (measles, chicken pox, etc.) Perhaps I built up an immunity?
Irene
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Valleygirl
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posted on March 9, 2002 11:30:26 AM new
It is so odd to me that some of you mention that you only have headaches once a year.
I lived with daily headaches, and major migraines about once a week. I thought everyone was like that. Then a new neurologist told me that most people DON'T have headaches, I was surprised.
Cleanliness: You know, 100 years ago, people only lived to their 50's. Now it's not unheard of to be 100. I suspect that our knowledge of cleanliness along with vacinations is a major part of longer lives.
Not my name on ebay.
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REAMOND
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posted on March 9, 2002 11:55:35 AM new
Snowy- There is a wide range of difference between living in a near sterile environment and a third world area without potable water and open sewers. However, these populations still survive and in some areas thrive under these very unsanitary conditions. Natural selection has produced off spring that have the genetics to naturally beat the "bugs" and they do not have asthma. Those that survive the septic illnesses produce off spring that also survive the same on slaught.
The studies also found that children exposed to foreign proteins at an early age had far less rates of asthma than their western counterparts.
There are those that agrue that western lifestyles are producing a specie of humans that will be susceptable to acute reactions to common aliments, and be dependant on medicines for normal living. Prior to modern meidicnes, there was a natural selection process that largely determined who would live long enough to reproduce. That process is nearly non-existent in western society.
This process used to match survivors with their natural environment. Our modern intercession has permitted genotypes to survive and reproduce that wouldn't have under natural conditions. But this all becomes a moot point as we unlock our genetic code.
The over use of broad spectrim antibiotics is also what is causing many pathogens to become resistant to our medicines. The drug companies like this. In fact they would hope that the pathogens mutate in the same time period as patent expirations.
In any event, the west is producing genotypes that simply will not be able to survive in third world conditions without medical intervention.
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snowyegret
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posted on March 9, 2002 12:22:25 PM new
Reamond, a near sterile environment is not what we in the US live in. If you ever had your home or office cultured, you would be shocked at the results.
Take Mexico City. THe official government position is that the horrendous air pollution there has no ill effects on health. That position tends to color the studies there. Have you been there in the last 10 years? You'll be blowing black snot in 24 hours, and wheezing in a week.
Life expectancy in the 3rd World countries is approximately 2/3 of the 1st World's. If your theory that the 3rd World populations have a stronger immune system was correct, the life expectancy should be longer.
It has also been hypothesized that our immune systems are actually overstimulated to the point of responding to anything, thereby the prevalence of autoimmune disorders.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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alwaysbroke
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posted on March 9, 2002 01:53:55 PM new
reamond,
But there are some studies that suggest that a very clean environment for young children does impact their immune system and how it developes.
Finally, proof that it is to our best benefit to leave our house messy. I feel so vindicated! Thanks, reamond. In fact, the Moms of America thank you.
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alwaysbroke
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posted on March 9, 2002 02:09:11 PM new
barbarake,
[b]But I'm doing this on purpose!! I want to build up my children's immune system.
(That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!)[/b]
LOL!!!That makes me a model mom!
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alwaysbroke
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posted on March 9, 2002 02:14:37 PM new
katmommy,
I am near the Great Lakes, but in the land that time forgot. If I am expecting a package via UPS it will bounce between 2 cities on either side of us for 3 days because they don't want to make a special trip out here! I can prove it with print outs of their tracking page from the web.
One package had fun riding around and around on the little truck for 2 days. We thinks it's funny, we don't really mind.
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alwaysbroke
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posted on March 9, 2002 02:20:06 PM new
valleygirl,
Did you find out what caused the migraines? Mine were everyday. Now they are once a week. I use Execedrine Migrain, the RX was totally useless.
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REAMOND
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posted on March 9, 2002 02:55:26 PM new
Snowy- the mortality rate is irrelevant in comparing the two groups. It would be valid if both groups lived under the same conditions.
If, after several generations of medical enhanced living, we were to put a generation into third world conditions, the group would not survive at the rates of the home town third world crowd, and could have a near 0 survival rate if they didn't interbreed.
Our lower mortality rates are exactly what is weakening our group in meeting and fighting off pathogens WITHOUT medical intercession. Our group just gains a lower mortality rate than it would naturally be, but it also becomes more dependant on medical intercession.
There are now a group of people in Africa that have been shown to be immune to AIDS, they are all woman. No one in the West has yet to be found to have this natural immunity - despite far greater testing in the West. A percentage of these women's off spring will also have the natural immunity.
If you want to argue temporary lower mortality rate over long term quality of a robust independant immune system, our Western lifestlyes can produce a medically dependant lower mortality rate.
But historically, it may be a horrible mistake. There have been events in the past such as wars or natural upheavels, that leave those dependant on artificial support sytems suddenly without those support systems. Then guess which groups survive and dominate? It is the ones that have independant survival systems. Nearly all Eastern Native American Indian populations were wiped out by Small Pox brought to the continent by Europeans. As we become more dependant on medical intervention to survive, we become just like the Native American when that support can not be accessed.
The mortality rates would be staggering for the West if the medical delivery system or even electricity were interupted for a significant peroid of time. This was discussed regarding terrorists using Small Pox as a weapon. We have generations now that, like the Native Americans, have never been exposed to Small Pox, therefore they predict the mortality rate would be much larger than ever before experienced.
Barring any further developement of genetic engineering, those third world people surviving the onslaught of pathogens without medical intervention are the genotypes that are guaranteed to be here 1000 years from now. Unless we can guarantee that out techno-structure survives intact for thousands of years to come. Historically, that has never happened.
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snowyegret
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posted on March 10, 2002 11:01:58 AM new
Reamond, your theories and premises are flawed. If you go live in Mexico for a while and drink unfiltered water, you would get sick, but eventually your system would build up antibodies to the normal flora of the water that was making you ill.
Also, nutritional status affects the immune system and how it functions. Poor nutritional status which is common in the 3rd world, decreases the effectiveness of the immune response.
Infectious disease is the leading cause of death in the 3rd World. Here, it's either heart disease or Ca. Infectious disease hits very hard there because of poverty, lack of access to clean drinking water, sanitation, and lack of access to medical care. Malaria, sleeping sickness, cholera, TB, ect.
link
Emerging bugs
WHO
Polio in Zambia/Uganda
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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auroranorth
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posted on March 23, 2002 07:34:29 PM new
2 here almost everyone has one or another
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ashlandtrader
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posted on March 25, 2002 06:36:57 PM new
My husbands grandmother is in her 80's and she can't fathom how I can just live among DUST and raise my kids among the piles of ebay stuff. I've been telling her for years that I am just boosting the kids immune systems! Really!
Life is too short to dust! Who the heck really cares.
Interestingly my husband has asthma and he does well when we are at home. Go figure.
So I can relate to the other "less than perfect" moms over here.
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plsmith
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posted on March 25, 2002 07:08:32 PM new
It was reported on a local Bay Area radio station today (kcbs) that tuberculosis is on the rise in all but two San Francisco-area counties. (Alameda and Santa Clara.)
San Francisco itself just observed World TB Day on March 22nd.
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MAH645
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posted on March 26, 2002 04:17:07 PM new
I've had a cold for a month,had five before that and for years never had one but I'm working in a factory where every body has kids and they do nothing but breed sickness.I'm glad I never had any kids,now I only wish everybody didn't either. I stay sick because of everybodys kid.
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katmommy
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posted on March 27, 2002 05:33:32 AM new
MAH645:
You sound like the ignorant lady on Sally Jesse yesterday. First off..people dont get people sick, germs do. The bugs Ive had this March had'nt come from my kids, they have been healthy. I got this cold probably from some poor sap who sneezed on the shopping cart at the supermarket. I am thrilled that YOU dont have children because you are a poor excuse for someone with a brain.
MEOW
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kyms
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posted on March 27, 2002 12:51:30 PM new
We need to be careful with this sickness,it is horrible!
This flu turned into pneumonia twice this winter for me (once in November/December and once in Jan/Feb). I was put in the hospital for it in January (afer not being able to eat for a week straight). I was seriously dehydrated and needed breathing help. (I am in my early 30's and otherwise healthy...) They gave me tons of antibiotics in I.V. form and I am still not fully over it.
My husband never gets sick and he developed pneumonia too. He was off work for a week straight (and he hasn't had a sick day in years).
I have never experienced anything like this bug. It has somehow changed my attitude. I am terrified of it coming back hard again and my lifestyle has changed...I am scared to go thrifting anymore...and that's my job... It has left me with panic attacks.
I think the abnormally warm winter allowed these bugs to thrive.
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