posted on May 27, 2002 08:23:48 PM new
Late January: Within 10 days of being sworn in until a few weeks before 9/11, Bush becomes
preoccupied — obsessed, some have whispered — with trying to cut a deal with the Taliban that
would make Afghanistan a new playground for American oil interests. The game plan involved
swiping the oil-rich Caspian region from Russian control — proving just how loyal Bush is to his "soul
mates" (Putin). From January through August, a time during which he felt sure he could cajole or
pressure the Taliban into playing ball, Bush did not consider the Afghan religious despots "evil." In
fact, he is reported to have described their repressive regime "as a source of stability in Central Asia"
that would provide the ideal environment for the construction of an oil pipeline
February 2001: In a masterpiece of conflicting signals, Bush, after expressing interest in
negotiations, orders the Taliban government offices in U.S. closed. The Taliban responds by saying it
might be willing to turn over Osama Bin Laden
March 2001: Laila Helms, daughter of former CIA director Richard Helms, brings one of Mullah
Omar's advisors, Sayed Hashimi to Washington. During that visit, Hashimi meets with the directorate
of Central Intelligence at the CIA and the Bureau of Intelligence and Research at the State
Department. At one meeting, says Helms, Hashami proposes that the Taliban would be willing to hold
bin Laden in one location long enough for the U.S. to locate and destroy him. However, this offer is
refused by the Bush administration.
April through August: one warning after another of terrorists attack directed against the U.S.
come into the Bush administration, from the UK, Russia, Egypt, Israel, France, Germany, and Russia.
Early May: FBI director Louis Freeh, after being the subject of an intensive rightwing smear
campaign (see various NewsMax stories as prime samples) quits — or, more accurately, is forced out.
May: Bush gives Taliban $43 million in what is reported to be a "pot sweetening deal"
June: Freeh now gone, the last of the FBI agents investigating the Cole are suddenly pulled out of
Yemen, ostensibly because of the lack of progress and danger.
June: O'Neill meets with French intelligence expert Jean-Charles Brisard in Paris and expresses
his frustration at the Bush administration. He tells Brisard he believes the key to making headway
against terrorism lies in Saudi Arabia, but that oil interests lie in the way of any serious investigation.
Brisard and his associate Guillaume Dasquié, an intelligence analyst and the editor of Intelligence
Online, dedicated their book "Bin Laden: the Forbidden Truth" (released in France in November
2001) to O'Neill. The book has been vigorously avoided by U.S. publishers and everyone in the
mainstream U.S. press except Paula Zahn, who has presented excerpts of it.
July: Francesc Vendrell and Tom Simmons (former ambassador to Pakistan)meet with Taliban in
Berlin on Bush administration's behalf. A deal that offers a coalition government and a pipeline is
proposed to the Taliban. When Tom Simmons threatens the Taliban with military action as alternative
to not accepting the deal, the Taliban reps storm out of meetings.
July: Possibly as a way to mollify the Taliban, Bush directs FBI to back off Osama Bin Laden
July 6: In response to public pressure, the FBI is sent back to Yemen, but O'Neill is told he is
barred from entering the country.
July 10: 'An FBI agent named Kenneth Williams who is based in Phoenix AZ sends a memo to
John O'Neill that he suspected an OBL hijacker in training was taking flight lessons at a local flight
school. The memo never gets further than whoever O'Neill transmitted it to. And, knowing O'Neill's
history, there is no doubt the info was transmitted.
July 12: Osama bin Laden receives treatment at an American hospital in Dubai and is visited by
CIA agent Larry Mitchell
July: O'Neill meets again with French intelligence analyst Brisard, this time in NYC. He again
expresses frustration at Bush's refusal to pursue OBL or Saudi terrorist ties seriously. It is absolutely
certain that O'Neill by now realized that even the memo from Williams would not be followed up on.
First week of August: Christina Rocca, director of Asian affairs at the State Department, meets
the Taliban ambassador in Islamabad to reopen negotiations. Her message from Bush according to
intelligence reports repeated in Brisard and Dasquie's book. "Either you accept our offer of a carpet of
gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs." This offer is refused.
August 6: The most serious terrorist attack warning is delivered to Bush. At this point, it should
have been clear to the Bush that, having just four days before threatened the Taliban with military
action, there would be a very good chance that something serious might happen, perhaps in the nature
of a preemptive strike. Yet it is at this point that Bush decides against taking serious action on the
threats.
WHY?
This is a president who has just delivered an ultimatum to the Taliban, yet has no plausible pretext
for "carpeting" Afghanistan with bombs. This is also a president whose approval ratings have sunk to
below 50% who needs something BIG to pull them back up. And there on his desk is an opportunity
for his problems to be solved
. Early August: Dick Clarke, the president's terrorism czar at the National Security Council, tells
O'Neill he would like to put his name is as his successor. "It would be a powerful position," fellow
agent Barry Mawn says. "That person would have direct contact with the FBI and turn around and
influence top Cabinet people, and possibly even the president."
Mid-August: A flight school in Minnesota flight reports Zacharias Missouri to the local FBI office
after Missouri requested training in how to fly a jet, but not in how to land or take off. Although
Moussaoui is arrested, agents did not search his computer and thus missed vital clues.
August 19: New York Times reports that O'Neill is suddenly under investigation for the "brief
case incident." Tom Pickard, second in command at FBI tells O'Neill he can pretty much kiss the
promotion chance goodbye. It is clear O'Neill, like Freeh, is being squeezed out. "Friends of O'Neill
have said that Pickard, who was very cozy with Ashcroft and the Bush team, acted as the number
one road block to O'Neill's efforts to progress in the agency at this time. After Sept. 11, Pickard, who,
unlike O'Neill and Freeh, had NO experience invetsigating terrorism (his speciality was white collar
crime) was placed in charge of the Sept. 11 investigation and also the anthrax investigation. In
November, Pickard retired."
Late August: O'Neill quits the FBI
Early Sept.: O'Neill takes a job as head of security for the WTC. He mentions to friends in New
York that he fully expects the building to be targeted by terrorists in the future.
September 7: The CIA's Promis program begins picking up unusual trading activity for United
and American Airlines.
September 11: On O'Neill's second day of work on the 34th floor, the WTC is hit by the first
plane. O'Neill makes it out of the building safely, calls his son to say he is OK,. then goes into the
other tower to help guide those still inside to safety. Minutes later, O'Neill, along with hundreds of
others, is dead, killed by the terrorist the Bush administration refused to allow him to pursue to the
best of his ability.
History will be kind to John O'Neill. It will not be kind to George W. Bush.
posted on May 28, 2002 07:54:25 PM new
Cheryl's factual history lays out clearly some of the chief questions which should be included in an open and honest investigation of the incidents and policies leading up to the terrorist attacks. She's been pretty much on target so far.
posted on May 28, 2002 09:51:55 PM new
Yellowstone, it has to be said over and over again so that just maybe it will sink in to open the eyes of the sheep. But, it seems they are still being lead by Bush and gang. A precise well written, incident by incident article, still has you calling it bull.
posted on May 28, 2002 11:17:36 PM new
Ask yourself if Cheryl's remarks make sense in light of all that's gone on.
SCAPEGOAT! How Bush Nearly Ruined the FBI
By Cheryl Seal
I've come to have a strong, almost personal feeling for John P. O'Neill, having just spend many
hours reading material about him for Smoking Gun Part 3. About 2:00 AM a few nights back as I
finished putting the finishing touches on that article, I could almost imagine him — his ghost, anyway
— peering over my shoulder with a broad Irish grin, saying, "Tell it like it is, honey! Don't let 'em get
away with it!"
Needless to say, I find myself taking a real interest in the whole slam job to which Bush and Co.
treated this fine servant of America in his final months on Earth. From all the evidence I have poured
over in recent days, it seems to me that when Bush took office, U.S. intelligence was doing a pretty
damn good job. Sure, there was the bizarre case of Robert Hanssen, but his case was an
EXCEPTION, not the rule in the U.S. intelligence community (of course, to this day, I wonder if the
Hanssen case is all it was made to appear, given the timing of the revelations to the press).
Throughout the 1990s, as terrorism grew throughout the world, U.S. intelligence managed to be
one step ahead of terrorists, or at least to keep pace with their devious efforts. Thus, thanks to the
vigilance of the FBI and NSA, the U.S. Olympics of 1996, seriously threatened by terrorism sustained
just one fatality. A few years earlier, an attempt to blow up multiple airlines in 1994 was derailed
before it ever got off the ground, as was an attack on CIA headquarters and the Pentagon. In short,
there have been many would-be tragedies that never happened thanks to a system that worked
remarkably well, given the well-funded and ambitious nature of the terrorists. The lapses in security
before 9/11 — the USS Cole as the major case in point — seemed more to do with the failure of
those in "high places" to heed intelligence reports (see Smoking Gun 3) than it did with lack of timely
intelligence information. John O'Neill, Louis Freeh and others were becoming seasoned experts in
monitoring and tracking Al Qaeda and Bin Laden. The NSA was becoming seasoned in the use of the
Echelon communications monitoring system and building a team of experienced encyrption system
crackers. In short, intelligence and security was getting better all the time while Clinton diplomacy was
slowly beginning to defuse tensions on the international political scene.
So, in comes Bush, breaking treaties, fomenting international tensions, plotting ways to increase
his power and scheming to lay claim to Central Asia and its bounty of oil and gas — all while keeping
his corporate pals, and his Dad's corporate pals — a list that included the name Bin Laden — happy.
In the FBI, Bush saw the perfect collective fall guy. From the time G. W. took office until the present,
the FBI has taken a constant beating, not just as Bush's personal scapegoat and smokescreen from the
public and press but in its internal affairs.
Under Bush, being a damn good investigator quickly became a liability, especially if your area of
expertise happened to be Al Qaeda. In short, it was no longer what you knew, but WHO you knew —
or to be more blunt — whose ass you were willing to kiss — that mattered. Though I have no doubt
competitive manuvering and office politics have always been unpleasant aspect s of life at the FBI, as
in any high-profile and/or federal agency, these issues seemed, overall, toi take a back seat to the
meaning of the job itself. A high percentage of the folks in the FBI are there truly for the job
description. O'Neill, for one, said he got into this line of work because he loved America and had been
inspired by classic agency heroes like Ephraim Zimbalist's character in the old FBI TV show.
But after January 2001, at least in some highly critical areas of the bureau, politics began to stir —
and muddy — the waters like spring overturn in a pond. While Bush mouthed to the press that he
supported FBI director Louis Freeh, he allowed his minions in the press and bureau to wage a
shameless smear campaign against Freeh. Freeh finally handed in the towel and quit in May — just
about the time the terrorist warnings had become to flow in pretty regularly. In July, O'Neill was
barred from returning to Yemen (which is not far from Dubai) to investigate the Cole disaster — most
likely because he was convinced Bin Laden was reponsible and was determined to get at the truth..
Four days after O'Neill was blocked from the investigation, Arizona agent Kenneth Williams reported
the suspicious activity of an Arab student in a flight school. O'Neill passed the memo on, but both
Williams and O'Neill were ignored by those above them — those closest to the political center. Two
days after Williams turned in his to-be-ignored report, Bin Laden was flown to an American hospital
in Dubai for medical treatment and visited by CIA agent Larry Mitchell. In August, a field agent in
Minnesota, trying to do her job, reported Zaccarias Moussaoui as highly suspicious, but was
hamstrung from following through properly. Games were now being played almost fulltime; Bush was
not about to allow a little thing like the safety of the American public interfere with his touch and go
negotiations with the Taliban over an oil pipeline through Afghanistan, In despair, O'Neill reached out
to a fellow intelligence expert — one who was not under the thumb of the Bush administration. In
meetings with French intelligence analyst Jean-Charles Brisard in June and July, O"Neill said that oil
was getting in the way of any serious investigation of Bin Laden, whom, O'Neill feared, would strike
again and strike harder than he ever had before. Brisard later dedicated the book he co-authored with
Jacques Dasquie "The Forbidden Truth."
Dick Clarke knew O'Neill was a good man — that he was, in fact, just the man America needed
right then as if confronted a threat from Al Qaeda greater than any yet posed. When Clarke decided to
step down from his position as terrorism czar at the National Security Council, it was O'Neill he
wanted to name as his successor. The position would have placed O'Neill in that inner circle, at the
perimeter of which all memos, all warnings seem to disappear as if being sucked over an event
horizon and into a black hole. However, it immediately became very clear no one wanted O'Neill
anywhere near this center of decision making.
Just as with Freeh, a reason for a smear campaign was found and news of a trumped up
"investigation" leaked to the press. It seems that nearly a year before, O'Neill had his brief case stolen
at a hotel. The briefcase, which contained some sensitive papers, was recovered, with nothing missing
except a cigar lighter. But that August, months after the fact, it was used to "question" O'Neill's fitness
for the job. Tom Pickard, at that time hovering eagerly at the perimeter of the inner circle, made it
clear to O'Neill he could forget the NSC post. Pickard, a fixture in D.C. with a degree in accounting
whose specialty was white collar crime, in the end, was named — unbelievably! — to head the 9/11
and anthrax investigations!
The man who replaced Louis Freeh as FBI director that summer was Robert Mueller, a man
whose name was way near the bottom of the list of people the FBI considered best for the job. But
Mueller had qualities that put him at the very top of G.W. Bush's list. In the 1980s, Mueller was third
in command in the FBI under under George Terwilliger. Mueller apparently put in a lot of overtime
working to keep the Iran-Contra scheme under wraps, and then, once things got sticky for Reagan,
helped the Dept. of Justice's Domestic Criminal Secition Chief Dave Margolis and International
Criminal Section Chief Mark Richards limit liability for Reagan, and then Bush, Sr. According to
political watchdog Al Martin, Mueller personally handled damage containment for Bush Sr. during
Bush's potentially scandalous dealings with Jordanian coffee merchant Mansour Barbouti. Barbouti
was involved in the illegal exportation of chemicals used in chemical weapons to both Iraq and Iran.
So, while on the FBI payroll technically, Mueller appeared to have worked in actuality as a master
cover up artist for Republican presidents involved in scheming and intrigues. So...what better man
could Bush, involved up to his eyebrows in scheming and intrigues, want? If Mueller could shield
Bush, Sr. and Reagan from consequences while just the No. 3 man — just imagine the tracks he
could sweep clean as FBI director!
O'Neill, on the other hand, had had enough. He simply quit and went to the WTC to work as
chief of security. It was there, trying to help others escape after the planes struck the center, that he
was killed. Unlike Bush, his heroics during 9/11 were real and spontaneous — not politically expedient
afterthoughts (Bush's photo op at the WTC site nearly a week after the fact.)
So, for the past year, we have been reading headlines like this: FBI BUNGLES
INVESTIGATION, FBI MISSES CRITICAL CLUE,: or BUSH ADMINISTRATION
CONCERNED BY LOSS OF PUBLIC CONFIDENCE IN FBI, when we should have been reading
honest headlines like this: BUSH ADMINISTRATION THWARTS FBI AGENTS' EFFORTS,
HIGH-RANKING FBI/BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL IGNORES YET ANOTHER FBI
WARNING, FBI EFFICIENCY HAMPERED BY UNQUALIFIED APPOINTEES TO TOP
POSTS, or maybe FBI FORCED TO CARRY OUT ASSIGNMENTS AGAINST BETTER
JUDGEMENT.
But want to know the headline I can't wait to read? FBI DEMANDS ANSWERS FROM THE
BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
posted on May 28, 2002 11:46:46 PM new
Which part is bull??????
Exactly which part is NOT bull?
Not only has Miss Seal figured out the grand conspiracy, she has divined the actual conversations! (Didn't you love the "carpet of gold" or "carpet of bombs" touch?). Maybe she should bring her discoveries to a grand jury.
posted on May 29, 2002 01:55:54 AM new
Did a grand jury investigate charges against Richard Nixon?. Against Ronald Reagan in Iran - Contra? No? But I'll bet you were right in there spouting the administration line wherever you could, eh? Probably did your best to poo - poo the Wasington Post reports of Watergate too, right?
posted on May 29, 2002 06:50:11 AM new
Conversation was not "devined by Cheryl".
The carpet bomb quote was included in the Brisard and Dasquie book, "Bin Laden, The Forbidden Truth." The book was reviewed as heavily researched and well documented yet it hasn't been published in America in the English language.
posted on May 29, 2002 02:29:20 PM new
First, Coleen Rowley is in deep trouble for revealing that the FBI could have done much more to prevent the 9/11 attacks. Her memo to Mueller was a direct challenge to the Bush administration and she was threatened with investigation. Then lo ad behold, today, she is applauded by the FBI. What kind of sense does this make. Could it be that the FBI is afraid now of an investigation of their corruption?
posted on May 29, 2002 06:11:12 PM new
KRS
I have made just a few notes but in whole I have to say that Cheryl's dissertation is pure conjecture. Which means that in order for ME to believe any of it I have to have some proof. A whole lot of people saying the same thing doesn't prove a thing.
July: Francesc Vendrell and Tom Simmons (former ambassador to Pakistan)meet with Taliban in Berlin on Bush administration's behalf. A deal that offers a coalition government and a pipeline is proposed to the Taliban. When Tom Simmons threatens the Taliban with military action as alternative to not accepting the deal, the Taliban reps storm out of meetings.
I just love this one. Here they are negotiating a deal with the Taliban and at some point Tom Simmons threatens them with military action if they choose to not accept the deal. Now I think anyone would agree that Bush does have some savvy and as such he wouldn't have gotten to where he is without competent negotiators. Well of course the Taliban reps stormed out of the room. That is to say if it happened at all. I suggest that this was made up, it never happened, the meeting never took place and this bumbled attempt at English literature is the smoking gun that none of this can be believed.
July 12: Osama bin Laden receives treatment at an American hospital in Dubai and is visited by CIA agent Larry Mitchell
Cheryl has access to CIA files and reports does she? Reports that are probably of a manner of some secrecy.
In my opinion DeSquirrel made a valid observation as he/she saw it and you side-stepped his/hers post. At this point who gives a dam what happened during the Reagan or Nixon administrations. This discussion isn't about them, is it?.
Helenjw
two French intelligence analysts claim.
This was at the end in the first paragraph in the link you provided. They can claim anything they want, but unless they provide irrefutable proof then it's also conjecture.
The carpet bomb quote was included in the Brisard and Dasquie book, "Bin Laden, The forbidden truth"
I also read this in the link you provided. Here again, alot of people saying something isn't proof. Interesting that there are no reference resources in the link you provided.
I am trying awful hard to read and understand the posts about Bush's supposed illegal dealings but come on, GIVE ME SOME PROOF.
Fixed ubb
[ edited by yellowstone on May 29, 2002 06:14 PM ]
posted on May 29, 2002 07:14:43 PM new
Heaven forbid that someone suggest that Cia files are open to the wrong people (someone watch doging the US government) I seem to remember a guy named Pollard spying for Israel and then a son of a B itc h named aldrich ames selling the lives of agents who were taken out an shot because of his worhtless butt. I remember the cartoons in the paper showing the director of the cia with his head between his legs looking for his ass with a flahslight and a map. and then some proto fascisti type blames the militia ,pitbulls and republicans for this mess.
Hey Kids its time for us all to put on our smnile button masks and waltz off to the next orchestrated spectcle.
you know what I want ?
how about someone in jail for 6 billion missing from the sl s.
How about an accounting of Korean war POW MIA's
ditto Vietnam.
how about opening the kennedy assinantion files.
burying nuclear waste in nuclear power plant shareholders yards.
reparations for the illegal detantion of european americans during world war two.
payments from the royal families for the workers their ancestors held in serfdom.
mice that are genetically inbred with the traits of lemmings.
hiring parolees to mow judges lawns.
the rico statute used on the latin kings crips bloods crazy homicide sisters and other sub human rats.
posted on May 29, 2002 07:29:15 PM new
Yellowstone,
The writers, Brisard and Dasquie are well respected ...not fly by night hacks. For example, Brisard and Dasquie have long experience in intelligence analysis. Brisard was until the late 1990s director of economic analysis and strategy for Vivendi, a French company. He also worked for French secret services, and wrote for them in 1997 a report on the now famous Al Qaeda network, headed by bin Laden.
Dasquie is an investigative journalist and publisher of Intelligence Online, a respected newsletter on diplomacy, economic analysis and strategy, available through the Internet.
The book is only available in French. I doubt that you would believe anything negative about George Bush even if I had a copy of the book and could translate it for you.
When this situation is investigated, and it will be, I hope that you will be able to consider the facts fairly.
posted on May 29, 2002 08:26:32 PM new
Helenjw
Fair enough, for now, your assessment of Brisard and Dasquie as you obviously know them or about them more than me.
I've said it before and i'll say it again here; I want to see an investigation also.
.....and I don't want to hear any false claims that the investigators, Congress or the grand jury are owned by the GOP without any proof.
Bring forth the facts and i'll consider their validity fairly.
posted on May 29, 2002 08:41:48 PM new
I don't know much about this Ms Seal, only she writes her 'thoughts, ponderments and conspiracy theorys' from a garage in AZ or KS or someplace, and only on the internet
Maybe she has raised some questions that are valid, maybe not.
I believe in investigations. For both Bush's, the Prez, and his brother the Gov of Fl, for his lack of overseeing the social services down there, its a god awful mess.
Until an investigation is done, and properly, independently or otherwise, then I and every other U.S citizen can see what really happened. And if it happens that Geo Bush had known (though I doubt he actually KNEW THAT) then he certainly is guilty. I still can't see any President knowing this and letting it happen, for whatever gain, the most evil or stupid, no I cannot see any leader of this country letting a 9-11 happen knowing it was going to
posted on May 30, 2002 10:29:07 PM new
yellowstone,
It's nearly useless to try to discuss any of this with a person who hasn't followed the developments. Not only these late ones but the course of the entire Bush presidency.
None of Cheryl's reportage is new information - it was all reported in various media, mostly mainstream media, at the times the events she relates occurred and there were threads here on several points at those times.
Bush has been spoiling for a fight in the middle east since he got the job - his provocations early in his tenure were noted several times, but no one could make much sense of them. The pipeline through Afganistan has been a goal since before Clinton broke relations with talibans, and the bush administration immediately sought to regain lost ground. There were negotiations being attempted with taliban leaders that failed. It was reported in the mainstream news and also is a common knowledge. You may remember that there was note of the irony of breaking relations with a government that had just been the recipients of $43 million in Bush aid. I know that there was at least one thread about it here.
That Bin Laden is sick is a commonly reported belief of the administration and the reason for that belief was reported to be that he had a kidney disease. The administration told us that and told us that he had been in hospital. The report of a CIA meeting originated from the dead John O'Neill, who derived his knowledge through his position as the most knowledgeable Osama expert within the administration.
Cheryl has only brought together much of the reported information. She didn't make it up. I had seen almost all of what she reports now before this, I had brought much of it here into threads that I started, but I didn't save any of it and I don't have time to do the really marvelous job of putting it together as Cheryl has done.
So, if you want proof, email Cheryl. From the completeness of her compilations I'd bet that she can provide you some. Consider that the single saving factor in journalism is the truth. Cheryl makes many charges and reports on things that if not true would likely land her in jail at the least. Don't you know that several of those about whom she writes would like to shut her up with legal action against her? The proof of all of it lies in the fact that she continues to report.
About: "At this point who gives a dam what happened during the Reagan or Nixon administrations. This discussion isn't about them, is it?."
That's an odd thing to hear from the person who so energetically cut and pasted the lengthy piece about Clinton, don't you think?
But the ties to past republican administrations is a valid one. Today's administration is made up in large part from yesterday's players - people who brought their highly developed and illicit skills to the new game. A look at the history is a way to make sense of the present. This is only a replay.
posted on May 31, 2002 10:50:45 PM new
Well, there's a lot of good, factual information in this thread. Detractors are left to gasping for breath and claiming it's not true as if saying it will make it so. The next step is to get the book published in English anbd distributed in America.
posted on June 1, 2002 10:04:33 AM new
Anyone who has been keeping up with threads here in the RT should have come to the conclusion by now that George W. Bush, Jr. is a TRAITOR. He will go down in history to the likes Benedict Arnold and Judas Iscariot. It will be up to the people in America in the present to have him indicted for these crimes against Americans and America. The question is how do we indict him and how do put him on trial? In the media, like the Republicans like to do to those they don't like? Do we Impeach him, like Republicans did to Clinton? Or do we just all go and grab some good old-fashioned Tar & Feathers and string the rascal up from the nearest tree branch?
posted on June 1, 2002 10:14:27 AM new
Oh now Borillar..... any of those suggestions would be hard to implement with the majority of the people supporting the way he's handling the war.
posted on June 7, 2002 10:08:45 PM new
No, Linda_K, they don't. You misunderstand the polls. The majority do not support Bush, they support the President. This is the mistake that brought down Bush, Sr. and the Republicans know it. That's why they keep ringing that "terrorists" bell at us, lest we wake up and see that Bush is a liar (which he is) and the GOP is a fascist organization attempting to turn America into a police state and a dictatorship with Bush a figurehead.
posted on June 7, 2002 11:29:02 PM new
Funny isn't it, how reliant these bush supporters are upon polls which are favorable , while the same people denigrated all polls when unfavorable results are obtained.
Makes you wonder about polls. After all, take 1000 people from downtown redneckville and poll them about bush and what will you get? Sorta' predictable isn't it? But take 1000 people from the steps of Sproul Hall at Berkeley and what will you get? Equally predictable, isn't it?
Now if you play media and have their ear then you know what to do. Give the media the results that you want to have spread to the minions and brainless followers so that they will continue to spout their useless claims wherever they go.
posted on June 8, 2002 07:53:37 AM newFunny isn't it, how reliant these bush supporters are upon polls which are favorable , while the same people denigrated all polls when unfavorable results are obtained.
Makes you wonder about polls. After all, take 1000 people from downtown redneckville and poll them about bush and what will you get? Sorta' predictable isn't it? But take 1000 people from the steps of Sproul Hall at Berkeley and what will you get? Equally predictable, isn't it?
Now if you play media and have their ear then you know what to do. Give the media the results that you want to have spread to the minions and brainless followers so that they will continue to spout their useless claims wherever they go.
Insane blather.
Didja predict this also?
[ edited by yellowstone on Jun 8, 2002 07:55 AM ]
posted on June 8, 2002 08:33:12 AM newFunny isn't it, how reliant these bush supporters are upon polls which are favorable , while the same people denigrated all polls when unfavorable results are obtained.
krs....you're right about the polls showing different results according to what group of people are being questioned. And a lot of people did say that same thing when clinton was using them to find out when he should pee, etc. Clinton lived by the polls. But that was okay with YOU then. You're just having a problem now that you don't agree.
But all the major polls show the majority of American people *DO* support the administrations policies on the war on terrorism. But it was okay if HE did that.
And speaking about Cheryl Seal....the only place I could find anything about her was on AfroCuba.com Is that were you get this garbage you post?
posted on June 8, 2002 09:13:31 AM new
Based on facts, Borillar??? I don't think so. Show proof...like krs USED to ask for. There was a time when he'd make fun on anyone posting an OP article that they agreed with. Now he posts one himself....Cheryl Seal's. ONE RADICAL opinion. But...just like using the polls...now that they're not going with the way he thinks they should be...they're off the 'okay to do' list too. So now it's okay to post ONE PERSON'S opinion.
Borillar you've been on here a long time...your comments are usually anti-american. You appear to me, to be against any form of government. Your radical ideas sometimes scare me. You say things that aren't always facts, you refuse to back up your statements with the 'proof' krs used to demand. So please, take a couple of Cheryl Seal's 'facts' and show some of krs' old time 'proof'.
posted on June 8, 2002 09:41:18 AM new
Nobody can really denigrate the big scientific pollsters like Gallup et al, when you consider that in elections they are accurate within TENTHS of a percent. If they're talking to rednecks, then everybody must be a redneck. So now the tune has changed from "everybody is misguided" to "the polls are wrong".
