krs
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posted on June 1, 2002 02:10:43 PM new
In the second such case arising out of the detention and deportation of aliens following 9/11 a court has upheld the right to due process of law violated by the private hearings of these persons before deportation.
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"Even "legal" immigrants that are not US citizens do not enjoy constitutional protections. They can be arrested and deported by the executive branch at will". not
http://www.latimes.com/la-053002judge.story
[ edited by krs on Jun 2, 2002 11:26 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on June 1, 2002 02:41:39 PM new
Given the wording of the Bill of Rights to deny someone the protections afforded is not to put them outside the fold of citizenship - it is to deny their humanity.
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Helenjw
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posted on June 1, 2002 03:47:49 PM new
Because we are fighting terrorism we cannot surrender the rights afforded everyone in this country by the constitution. Ashcroft has jailed thousands without a charge of terrorism and we still do not know how long these people are being held or even who is being held. We cannot treat human beings worse than animals in this country.
Good for U.S. District Judge John W. Bissell and all Americans who are fighting for the rights of all people who are being denied their due process rights.
These very crucial rulings and the ones to follow are an affirmation of our constitutional rights and a repudiation of John Ashcroft and the Bush administration.
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DeSquirrel
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posted on June 1, 2002 09:42:44 PM new
The ruling was that the hearings couldn't be closed.
Just why arresting and deporting illegal aliens requires a "repudiation", I really don't understand.
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Borillar
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posted on June 1, 2002 10:30:34 PM new
"Just why arresting and deporting illegal aliens requires a "repudiation", I really don't understand."
REPUDIATION: The refusal, especially by public authorities, to acknowledge a contract or debt.
Ouch! Why is it, DeSquirel, that your comments or questions usually give me a headache to read them?
That efforts to keep *ANY* trial or Due Process a secret based upon a "blanket" order of secrecy is the open door to Tyranny should be obvious to even school kids. That it has no place in our Democracy should be obvious even to you. The order that came from Ashcroft NEEDS to be thrown back into his face, just like the Federal court ruling that stopped his attempts to overturn the Oregon voter's decision to allow Physician Assisted Suicide for terminally ill patients. America MUST show their displeasure at all aspects of far-right agendas taking place in our government if we want to keep this country a Democracy. Those of you who want to make this country into a Fascist Police State, please go bother someone somewhere else and leave the rest of us ALONE!
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REAMOND
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posted on June 1, 2002 10:46:38 PM new
I wouldn't set off any fireworks yet either. All this ruling does is not allow closed hearings, unless the Feds can show cause. And it looks like it will be appealed.
The sad thing is that the aliens still do not have substantive due process rights, and only very thin procedural due process regarding public hearings, if the rulings hold up on appeal.
Imagine if a citizen had no representation and his only due process was procedural in that the public/press could attend the hearing/trial. Ugh ! I wonder how many of the aliens will themselves demand that their hearing be private ? Having a public hearing will not change the results. I bet most will request a private hearing.
There's nothing to celebrate here. Unless you wanted to see the hearing on Court TV.
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DeSquirrel
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posted on June 1, 2002 10:56:22 PM new
Comparing closed deportation hearings for ILLEGAL aliens to "secret trials" of citizens is a tiresome stretch.
And I'm sure Reamond is right when he says many would request a private hearing. If I were declared a troublemaker by my government, for example, I sure as hell wouldn't want them to know when I was being returned.
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Borillar
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posted on June 1, 2002 11:38:24 PM new
REAMOND, aren't they glad to have that choice?
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REAMOND
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posted on June 1, 2002 11:42:13 PM new
Desqur- Don't rule the possibility out of an actual citizen being caught up in this.
Many of the detainees are alleged to have phony documents such as SS cards. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of one or two of the detainees being actual American citizens. There may be some of these detainess that are making the claim of citizenship. Who knows ?
The only way to determine this is at the administartive hearing - and the only thing they presently have is a "public" hearing. That may be gone after appeal.
What do you suppose they could do with this ruling ? Turn around to the press in the hearing room and yell at them that they are a citizen ???
I am willing to bet 25 cents that when the dust settles, there will be at least one deportee on the nightly news somehwere in Lebanon or South America that is in fact an American citizen.
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Borillar
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posted on June 1, 2002 11:43:16 PM new
"Comparing closed deportation hearings for ILLEGAL aliens to "secret trials" of citizens is a tiresome stretch."
So, what you're insinuating is that the government NEVER grabs a mile when given an inch?
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REAMOND
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posted on June 1, 2002 11:45:35 PM new
Bor- It's like having the choice of a public or private execution. I suppose some might like the choice, but it doesn't change the results.
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Borillar
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posted on June 1, 2002 11:52:29 PM new
REAMOND, illegals being detained, heard, and then deported does not bother me in the least. That it is done so under a general order of secrecy DOES bother me. That blanket orders tend to be extremely deadly to a Democracy has been proven time and again. While the illegals may not realize any benefits from this ruling, America will be able to continue to be one step further away from a total tyranny.
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Helenjw
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posted on June 2, 2002 05:59:48 AM new
It's clear that we need someone to keep watch over us all while our civil liberties are being abused by the terror-terrified Lord Protector John Ashcroft.
Now as the New FBI becomes a secret police with terror as justification, we can't let these steps to tyranny happen.
Helen
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auroranorth
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posted on June 3, 2002 04:31:34 AM new
The fact is is that the Constitution clearly talks about Citizens and residents, and did not stop there. there is no legal argument based on the original contsitution that allows for the invasion of America that is taking place.
when examining the intent of the document we only have to look at the wrtitings of those who signed this document before and after they did so. if one does this then even the most liscensed imagination could not possibly come up with the idea that the moslem population are candidates for citizenship or residency.
once we had proclaimed our independance from Britian while struggling bravely against incredible odds these followers of allah decided to engage in plunder murder theft and raping of America at every single chance they got, for 42 years our young nation had the heel of multiple arab jackboots on our back. each scumbag that could presented himself under force of arms to our nation for tributary payments to thei feifdoms.
the Bey of Algiers sucked money out of our young nation for 42 years, so did the jerks running tripoli, and other notbales in the ottoman empire. Our ships were captured our crews and officers sold into slavery by these koran waving clowns.I want the money back they stole from the USa with interest.
after we finally dealt with then in the invasio of tripoli in 1818 they moved their terror to the south pacific again murder hostages and the like, we sent thje fleet to bombard qualla batoo out of existnace and had to go back to that area again a few years later.
Then they moved their terror to the phillapines, and in World war one sided with the entante in workld war tow they sided with the axis and in the cold war with russia
and china.Moving on to bombings in lebanon and Lockerbie,
The fact is is that the moslem population has engaged in a 225 year long campaign or terror against Americans. But it does not match the fairy and fuzzy bunny politically correct nonsense being pushed by all the fruit cases out there.
basically this history has not been argued properly in the courts because the legal system in this country is inept to protect the people who founded this nation. It consists of special interests, Corporate scoundrels, and a lot of bottom feeders who palaver about liberty as an excuse for enriching themselves on the backs of the workers. While making you need a million dollars worth of insurance to run a lemonade stand.
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Borillar
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posted on June 7, 2002 10:20:56 PM new
" . . . for the invasion of America that is taking place."
You're right - it IS an invasion and Bush wants it to go FULL-FORCE! Bush is so anti-American that it's a wonder that Americans are too stupid to see it.
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