gravid
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posted on August 3, 2002 09:27:32 PM new
There is no common point to start from....giving them condoms means nothing..
"One explanation for the increase is the spread of Aids.
More than 17 per cent of the population is HIV positive,
and deaths from Aids are often attributed to sorcery
rather than from unprotected sex or infected blood
transfusions."
They are about 400 years behind Europe and the US and they don't have the time to catch up before it is a disaster. I guess the penatration of the Christian missionaries was not as great as they'd like us to think. They supposedly did educational work also - and a lot of these people are nominal christians but still follow the same old hodoo.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/08/04/witch04.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/08/04/ixworld.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/08/04/witch04.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/08/04/ixworld.html
[ edited by gravid on Aug 4, 2002 03:23 AM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on August 4, 2002 07:28:03 AM new
"There is no common point to start from....giving them condoms means nothing"..
Good point! I am so happy that you have moved the discussion away from condoms. Witchcraft and ignorance along with poverty is the basic problem. I read yesterday that some Africans believe that having sex with a virgin cures AIDS. It's clear, based on the escalation of the disease and your links that a great number of the African population simply don't understand the disease. Preventative measures will not be effective until the disease is understood.
Education is the "point to start from".
And I am not referring to "education" by missionaries.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Aug 4, 2002 08:07 AM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on August 4, 2002 11:20:29 AM new
That's an interesting article gravid. I had no idea this was going on.
I often wonder what's happened to Africa. Since I was a child, I knew that people were very poor with no food. Along with that, they now have to contend with AIDS. With all the wealthy countries around, why hasn't a dent been made in helping them?
I also wonder why I'm so lucky and get to have clean everything & medical attention with a phone call. It depresses me sometimes. Do you ever feel like that?... helpless??
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gravid
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posted on August 4, 2002 01:20:10 PM new
Very frustrated but never guilty. I gave that up about 8. I fix what I can - help those I can, but won't throw funds down a rat hole hoping something gets to the bottom. I have found plenty to help close where I can see the results and keep tabs on how it is working.
Africa is too big - I frankly think it will callapse in chaos without borders and the European nations will move back in and take over to have the minerals. It would be easier to buy them - but there will not be enough order left for mining companies to work and ship it out. After AIDS plays out the population will be down to 20 or 30% of before.
[ edited by gravid on Aug 4, 2002 01:21 PM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on August 4, 2002 01:55:40 PM new
gravid
I Don't think that Africa should be called a rat hole and it's extremely crude to suggest that a horrific disease like AIDS will be the answer to population control.
It's only a matter of chance that we are not there.
Helen
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gravid
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posted on August 4, 2002 02:47:13 PM new
It is not crude. I find no joy in it. It is just a factual observation. It is not an "answer" unless as some susspect it is a man made disease. I've never bought that. I don't think there is anything this late in the game we can do to change it. You would have to invade and occupy the land just to get past the local governments to get real aid to the people. I am sure there are racists who are happy that the power of mostly black countries will be broken. That is not where I am coming from. But neither am I going to pretend that all is well and it is not the Africans fault that they are in this predicament. The governments there have always squandered their resources on lining the pockets of the rulers and the morals and the customs of the people frankly stink. Calling it a rat hole is probably not fair to rats. They don't seem to systematically dominate and mistreat other rats. Be they black, blue or teal. That has nothing to do with it. I won't be an appologist for them to be politically correct. Sure I have ended up in a better country by an accident of birth. So what? Does that mean I should be m\nice and not say the truth?
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Helenjw
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posted on August 4, 2002 03:17:39 PM new
Gravid,
"But neither am I going to pretend that all is well and it is not the Africans fault that they are in this predicament.'
I don't think that with a disease like AIDS or the plague or tuberculosis or polio that we can blame the victims. I don't understand that concept.
It's not a racist issue to me either. I don't care if they are black, purple or white...But I think that some compassion is in order and it's clear that George W. Bush, by refusing to send the 34 million requested by the UN, has none.
Helen
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gravid
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posted on August 4, 2002 04:25:59 PM new
Aids is just ONE of the horrible health issues in Africa. And almost all of them could have been handled if the governments there had used their funds to take care of pubic education and health services. Clean water for the villages. Sanitation of the most basic kind. The have cholera - typhus - polio - all sorts of parasitic diseases - malaria - various horrors like Ebola. And when what little infastructure there is breaks down from aids you will see a horrible sweep of all these other diseases unchecked.
They go to a hospital or clinic and are injected with drugs using a syringe that has been used by a dozen people and not even washed much less sterilized.
The money for those needs was sent to off shore accounts of the rulers and spread among the few rich to keep power secure. They spent money on weapons and military supplies instead of public need. To that extent it is their fault.
I agree Bush is not refusing to help out of any calculating measure of "will it do any good?" The amount is chump change to the US. It just shows them he can do as he pleases and cut them off when he wishes.
I honestly think it would take 200 to 300 billion to set the continent right. Plus the lives of Americans and Europeans to remove the corrupt governments so the needed actions would not be stopped as they are now everytime someone really tries to help.
[ edited by gravid on Aug 4, 2002 04:30 PM ]
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saabsister
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posted on August 4, 2002 05:45:29 PM new
The money for those needs was sent to off shore accounts of the rulers and spread among the few rich to keep power secure. They spent money on weapons and military supplies instead of public need. To that extent it is their fault.
Gravid, I had to smile at your statement because it sounds so much like the news headlines here in the US. Not that the topic is humurous, but the parallels are there.
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Helenjw
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posted on August 4, 2002 06:42:11 PM new
That's an interesting observation, saabsister.
I think that we have some rats throwing money down a hole somewhere also.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Aug 4, 2002 06:43 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on August 4, 2002 07:14:12 PM new
It is just that the government and rich people here so far have been smart enough to see that there is more to be skimmed off of a fat middle class than a huge country full of poor people.
For example in other countries it is common to have a very hard time getting a phone and when you do it is expensive. But would you rather have $15 a month from 100 million customers or $500 a month from 1,000?
Now they are finally getting so greedy sending jobs out of the country that they may kill the goose that layed the golden egg.
I can just see all these companies in 20 years saying to each other - "Well YOU should have keep paying your workers decent wages so they could be OUR customers." You sent the shoe business to Mexico and now those people can't buy our cars! Do you want fries with that?
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antiquary
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posted on August 5, 2002 08:11:14 PM new
I just finished Clancy's Mission of Honor in the Op-Center series, this one written by Jeff Rovin from Clancy and Pierznik's creation. Much better writer than Clancy. But the discussion of parallels with situation in Africa was ironically similar since that is the novel's setting and the plot revolves around the efforts of a military/industrial consortium of European businessmen to create instability leading to revolution in Botswana through their support for and manipulation of African Voduns. Their goal to set up a puppet government that they can control and through it exploit the resources and spread the unrest and revolution throughout Africa.
An interesting concept, that of the power and influence of groups of wealthy businessmen, that Clancy has advanced in several of his more recent creations.
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