"Even if they fail to sell a particular product, they sell consumerism itself by ceaselessly reiterating the idea that there is a product to solve each of life's problems, indeed that existence would be satisfying and complete if only we bought the right things." (Alan Durning, How Much is Enough - The Consumer Society and the Future of the Earth, Worldwatch Environmental Series, 1992, p.119)
Linguist and activist Helena Norberg-Hodge reports the impact of this propaganda on the traditional people of Ladakh on the Tibetan plateau, among whom she has lived for a quarter of a century:
"In films, the rich, the beautiful, and the brave lead lives filled with excitement and glamour. By contrast, their [the Ladakhis'] own lives seem primitive, silly and inefficient. The one-dimensional view of modern life becomes a slap in the face. They feel stupid and ashamed. They are asked by their parents to choose a way of life that involves getting their hands dirty for very little or no money. Their culture seems absurd compared with the world of the tourists and film heroes." (Norberg-Hodge, Ancient Futures - Learning From Ladakh, Sierra, 1992, p.97)
Significantly, Norberg-Hodge notes, the dark sides of Western culture - the pollution, unemployment, drugs, environmental degradation, alienation, sham democracy and social breakdown - are kept from traditional peoples. Also unknown to them are the effects of advertising. In an article titled, 'Retail therapy makes you depressed', Ben Summerskill of The Observer writes:
.......................
The problem for many Third World people is that they are sold the dream of cars, mobile phones and laptops, but the dream is all they get. The foundations of their world view and culture are torn from them, leaving only the mirage of Western-style happiness. Many leave rural communities for an urban, consumer dream, only to find themselves isolated and alone in dilapidated shantytowns, working vast stretches in Hobbesian factories for a pittance, lost between two worlds.
Unrestrained and unlimited greed of the type epitomised by global capitalism, is a kind of giant eraser - it erases inconvenient facts, inconvenient values, inconvenient species, inconvenient peoples, and inconvenient cultures. It is done bloodlessly, very often, by the erased executive, sitting in his or her bland suit with a mind full of 'performance targets' and a heart empty of human feeling.
It is this emptiness of heart that is behind the 10 million square mile cloud of toxic pollution over Asia, the biblical floods in Central Europe, and the horrors that are approaching on every side. If we and they do not fill this empty space, it will be the death of them and it will be the death of us.
posted on September 20, 2002 01:51:02 PM new
From what I hear, the impoverished village goes on as it has for centuries; without running water or electricity. Then, one day, a dust cloud coming up the road and what appears is a brilliantly-colored pick-up truck, jacked up for 4-wheeling, chrome bars, and very, very loud salsa music playing: it's one of the boys returned home from America!
With gifts in hand for everyone, the rich young boy tells everyone stories about his adventures to get into America illegally, his struggles there, his lifestyle that was made possible through hard work and sometimes, dealing a few drugs. But it is all worth it, he tells them, because look at his new-found riches! And he has money - American money in his pocket! Oh, and the dreams that he weaves make their daily lives look so harsh and terrible - what a wonderful place this America must be! It is El Dorado - the Land of Gold come to life, and it is only a little way to the north, if one is brave enough and willing to endure some hardship. Better to travel up north and to try to find their dreams of riches than to live each day as they always have in the high mountains/plains/etc.
So now, when the young man drives back to his new hoe in America, they lay their plans: he will house each newcomer for so much money per month in his own home, until they can get work and a car to drive. The entire village can eventually immigrate to El Dorado and enjoy the Freedom and Riches thereof for the rest of their lives.
I know that this is generalizing, but I've read of these stories for years, as to what is making so many millions of people to make the trek up here and to put up with work that we will not, and to live in squalor that we would not, and to all that goes with it. It is the desire to make a better life, because the Greener Pasture actually exists. And it is what drives a lot fo these folks to come to America: not Freedom of religion, or of speech, or to go wherever you like without papers or explanation from authorities, or persecution for any of the above.
posted on September 20, 2002 06:10:43 PM new
22 cents of every dollar we spend on prescription drugs is for advertising. 65 % of the drugs approved by the FDA from 1989-2000 were modified versions of the same drugs. The concept of "new is better" is easily sold to the masses, particularly when it comes to drugs. Clarinex is a derivative of Claritin and Nexium is a derivative of Prilosec.
posted on September 23, 2002 09:50:40 AM new
If someone comes here for economic rights I can not dismiss that as inferior to the rights of free speech and religion.
All the rights are only held by the merit of being free to feed yourself and house your family.
All the denial of rights in a totalitarian society spring from the ability to deny property rights.
The freedom to speak or worship is denied through taking away the ability to work or enjoy the fruits of your labor, and by taking away the right to travel to move where you are not repressed.
The current ability of the government to grab private property and force its forfiture without legal action is a handle to deny any other political or economic freedom that they may care to.
The subtle little dig that such immigrants are prone to deal in illegal drugs is simple predjudice. I see no shortage of natives willing to go in that trade. I find it hard to believe that the Mexicans I see working all day in the hot sun on lawn service crews and asphalt paving crews do it as a cover for their drug dealing at night. If the government took the profit incentive out of the drug trade by legalizing drugs back to the state they were in before about 1910 then the whole structure of the drug trade would collapse.
The war on drugs is simply a prohibition that they have not been smart enough to give up as a lost cause as they did the one on alcohol.
If they had insisted on retaining the prohibition on alcohol to this day we would still have the same asinine scare ads and lying misinformation about the dangers of demon rum and a gigantic "war on booze" funding a never ending - money sucking effort to find every bottle and still.
I am really surprised they gave up such a never ending source of funds.
If you think about it - If in the face of all the propaganda you are CAPABLE of actually thinking about it independantly from what you have been instructed to believe. - the prohibition on drugs is a denial of property rights. If I want to own and use pot or any other drug it should be as legal as a bottle of beer.
We are treated like children who can not decide what to do with our own bodies. Even drugs that are not "sinful" by being euphoric you have to get a prescription from your government approved doctor to buy.
Don't you ever get tired of being treated like a simpleton and yearn to be treated like an adult person? Or do you find comfort in not having the responsibility of deciding what is good for yourself?
posted on September 23, 2002 11:34:10 AM new
As an aside point, gravid, most are used as "runners". Since they are coming north for Gold, not Rights, they get a lot more if they smuggle a kilo or two on themselves and drop them off when they get to the destination city. It helps them to get their start in getting their Gold. The only Rights that they care about is the Right to Get The Gold! Very, very few are here because of political persecution or that their lives were in any way in jeopady, or that they were dying for "a breath of the fresh air of Freedom". Damned few. It's a Gold Rush, El Dorado and it has nothing at all to do with any Rights.
BTW, gravid, since you bring this up again, I'd like to point out that even God Himself sorts incoming people out, decides who gets to vcome in to Paradise and who doesn't. It it's OK for God, the Ultimate Source of Morality, etc., ad. nauseum, then WE little ole' humans are perfectly moral and righteous to sort out incoming people to Amereica and DENY entry to those whom we do not feel that they "fit in"; such as, child rapists, musders, theives, the sick with communicable diseases, and to use economic quotas. God does it, so can we. And we're every bit as moral to do it.
posted on September 23, 2002 01:07:33 PM new
Yeah, right. Everyone comes here with a little nest egg - that's why so many immigrants here live fifteen to a house and labor at the jobs you and I don't want to do.
I'm not a believer in god, but if you are, I read somewhere that he sorts them out this way also:
[i]It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to
enter the kingdom of God.[/i]
And we're pretty damned rich by world standards.
posted on September 23, 2002 02:09:15 PM new
I have heard that some people say shoot them all and let God do the sorting. I personally do not have any expectations of a harp playing heavenly reward. Nor even any of the Muslim versions with horis and ever-virgins, or mead swilling Norse versions.
posted on September 23, 2002 03:08:42 PM new
I don't either, gravid. My point, to reinterate, is that you have said before that you feel that the ideals that America was founded upon are so lofty, almost Holy, that unless we offer it to all of the child-rapists in the world who want to come here, then those ideals are false. You mentioned this thought several times in the RT recently.
Now, I've mentioned to you that lofty ideals are fine so long as they aren't carried to extremes. Ideals are something pure that we try to live up to, but never will achieve, because it can not be achieved. It is the struggle to reach those unreachable ideals that count, not the ideals themselves. But this line of practical reasoning seemed lost upon you when I mentioned it before, so now I make a new point, hoping to get through to you.
Once again, the point is that God, the creator of Ultimate Ideals and such, puts these ideals to us and commands us to follow them. Yet, in trying to reach these ideals, those who fail become unqualified and God Himself segregates those who follow His Path from those who strayed. Therefore, if God Himself sees fit to treat His Ideals in this fashion, by what right can you possibley make the arguement that we, mere mortals, have to surpass God Himself with the ideals created by mere mortals?
Now gravid, if that bit of logic won't wash with you, we can simply just agree to disagree.
posted on September 23, 2002 03:30:00 PM new
>Yeah, right. Everyone comes here with a little nest egg - that's why so many immigrants here live fifteen to a house and labor at the jobs you and I don't want to do.
Everyone who comes here illegaly does not always come here with a nestegg, true. Yet, on the West Coast, that is how drugs are run from Mexico to the USA. That is factual and documented. How much they get for doing it or what rewards they get was never told.
As far as 15 to a house, believe me when I say that I lived in the Mexican Getto over here for several years, from 1993-1996. One rents an apartment because they are established and have a job and credentials. Next month, there is someone else living there. Soon, within months, the apartments are maxed-out with illegal immigrants. They arrive, stay two to three months sharing rent, get into an employment situation, save a bit, then go strike out to rent thier own apartment, often repeating the same process. Yes, saabsister, I know.
As far as those jobs that no one else wants to do, you are totally unaware of the solution that we had here in Oregon and Washington, possibly other states a decade and a half ago. Since there needs to be labor willing to do those jobs and Americans do not want to do those terrible jobs and do not have to, there was a program that was OKed up over here. Each year, the agricultural concerns and other related seasonal labor concerns would put in their request for how many workers that they needed for how long (one season/two or three months/whatever) and workers from Mexico would be ferried up here, given work with decent living conditions (that was part of the agreement), and when the seasons were over, they would be shipped back home to Mexico.
That program actually was working fine for both sides for several years. The workers could receive good wages and poor, but clean living conditions with running water and electricity, etc. When the work was done, they were taken home for free to the other side of the boarder and dropped off. They got to go home, pockets stuffed with cash and whatever they could carry as gifts. Wonderful.
As I said: they do not come here because they are starving or suffering. They are not living in garbage-heap societies that Sally Struthers used to show at dinner-time. They are doing just fine where they are at. They are not politically persecuted or deprived of basic human rights. They do not come here for them either. They come here for economic reasons not related to survival, but for a life-style. Saabsister - they want to be Consumers.
I can't blame them for wanting that. Hell, I'd rather live the way that I do than to live in a small village in Mexico. I think, though, that Mexican lawss have to change. I should be able to go down to Mexico and buy whatever land that is for sale that I can afford. Any Mexican with the money that they earn legally or illegally here in America can own American property, therefore, we should be allowed to do the same.
Personally, I'm all in favor of incorporating Mexico and its various states into the union. To Hell with that end of NAFTA, our laws and ideals and system would be applied there; such things as a minimum wage and public education, etc. As a matter-of-fact, it would be the best damned thing to ever happen to that part of the world. Sure, just like how West germany was devastated economically and culturally for over a decade so far with the incorporation of East Germany, it would likely be ten times as bad for us, but you know, we just oughtta do it.
posted on September 23, 2002 07:10:02 PM new
"that unless we offer it to all of the child-rapists in the world who want to come here, then those ideals are false"
There is no point in replying to someone who makes up hateful misquotes. You go beyond saying you feel I imply something to actually fabricating and presenting a false statement that never occured as a fact. You have not even a veneer of honor.
In fact I think I no longer enjoy this place.
The company is not acceptable. Bye.
posted on September 23, 2002 10:25:29 PM new
>There is no point in replying to someone who makes up hateful misquotes.
I did not misquote you. I paraphrased what you've stated before. You stated that everyone, no matter who they are, has to be let in. I mentioned that child rapists were not acceptable to me. You then repreatedly stated that it had to be EVERYBODY and ANYBODY and everybody and anybody includes child-rapists. So, if you want to be childish and leave, s'long! Don't let the door slam on your way out!
posted on September 24, 2002 04:31:55 AM new
Gravid, I wish you'd reconsider although I sure can empathize. There really is no point answering some ridiculous off-the-wall charge. Bor-ing stuff.
posted on September 24, 2002 06:08:17 AM new
Borillar- I recently asked gravid whether he thought we should allow an endless number of immigrants in and I don't remember getting a direct answer. Could you show me where he said "everybody and anybody" without exception? Maybe I missed it. BTW- incorporating Mexico comes replete with all the corruption, drug crops and dealers, and a questionable economy. It would be great for them but what does it do for the U.S.? "Our laws and ideals would be applied there"? It's a bit presumptious to think that Mexico wants to be annexed, don't you think?
posted on September 24, 2002 06:16:31 AM new
gravid
"In fact I think I no longer enjoy this place." "The company is not acceptable"
I'll bet we all think that every now and then Yesterday, some bozo called me arrogant and ignorant in the same sentence. LoL.
I sincerely hope that you will reconsider because we all depend on your informative, interesting posts and especially your good sense of humour!
Helen
ubb.ed
[ edited by Helenjw on Sep 24, 2002 06:17 AM ]
posted on September 24, 2002 01:06:30 PM new
> Could you show me where he said "everybody and anybody" without exception? Maybe I missed it.
No. I will not be put into the situation of being put on trial for gravid's obnoxious behavior. You can go look it up yourself. I started a CITIZENSHIP thread a month ago and you can read up on it. The more recent one that I started, WHAT'S MY POSITION is a continuation of that discussion.
As far as any direct quote is concerned - none was required to make my point. If I have to go make direct quotes to everything each and every time instead of paraphrasing, then each and every one of you will have to do that too! And I know DAMNED WELL that not a one of you would do that! So don't be trying to bugger me with that burden!
As far as misquotes go, I get slammed all the time around here with them. Instead of crying: So-and-So, you've misquoted me terribly, and for that reason, I'm leaving!" I simply ignore their out of context and direct misquotes and go on with what I want to say. The difference here is that I was not trying to defame gravid; unlike others here pasty and present who have defamed me and no one has jumped to my defense, I notice.
gravid of late has been posting oddly. Not just to me, but to other threads and other people. Or, at least I have found it out of character for gravid. Evidently, he/she has other personal problems not related to this forum and I'm being used as an excuse for gravid to go get a real life. Not that it hasn't happened before - I don't let such things bother me, but it's become old hat to play the blame game and blame it on me - unfairly. But you don't see me crying about it.
The RT is nothing more than a public message forum on the Internet where people come to discuss things or to make comments or to simply say silly nonsense. When it becomes more than that - and it does for some people, then they need to go get a real life. They need to realize that they are sitting in front of a computer at their desk and there's a real world out there. I've seen the gravids come and go for twelve years now and while most simply have the decency to say, "I need a break. I'll be back later on. Bye!", there are those who get all too involved in the message forum and blow out the doors on their way out, screaming and yelling and making accusations of all sorts. I've seen it before, I'll see it again. And if I were to tell gravid that he was right and I was wrong and then I bailed out of here, people would STILL come here, post for a while, and then some will find a reason to go do what gravid is doing - and I wouldn't be here to blame! So what's the point of my being put on trial and defending myself? N-O-N-E!
gravid needs to go take a break from the RT, go out camping, find a new love in his/her life, get a new job, move to a new address - whatever! gravid's contributions will be more than welcome if he/she finds their new life gives them the desire to come back again. gravid will always be welcome here. But until gravid gets his/her head clear, go take a break!
posted on September 24, 2002 01:56:31 PM new
borillar,You said:
. I started a CITIZENSHIP thread a month ago and you can read up on it. The more recent one that I started, WHAT'S MY POSITION is a continuation of that discussion.
posted on September 24, 2002 01:58:02 PM new
>BTW- incorporating Mexico comes replete with all the corruption, drug crops and dealers, and a questionable economy.
And ours doesn't?
> It would be great for them but what does it do for the U.S.?
I can't foresee everything that this would entail, but I thought it would add nicely to the discussion of consumerism. Realize that Bush and Mexico's President got together and Bush pretty much said: send me your poor, your people eager for a new life. The Mexican Pres said: Yeah! I'd love to get rid of the excess poor in my country - you can have them. BUT -- you've got to put water wells and rest stations in-between our boarder and your cities. What Bush didn't say was that they'd be automatically granted US Citizenship, but instead, these encouraged poor people end up off the legal scale and have no rights whatsoever that are given to them on a privilege basis. Slavery. Wasn't that nice of Bush to Give with one hand and Enslave with the other? Do you think Mexico's President knew about this?
Realize that over a million people a year enter our boarders from the south. Not 2 or 3 people who accidentally wandered across the deserts, but thousands per day! Obviously, it would be good for them, but I think, it would also be good for us as well.
I think that by giving Citizenship to every person down there will change politics up here, as they'd have the Vote. A mix-up in the government could only spell good for us. I think that all of those extra jobs that no one can fill would instantly be filled, albeit with minimum wage workers instead of slave-wages. The boarder would be easier to defend on the south side if we incorporated Mexico, and they'd have to have a bunch of new states. How many states are in Mexico right now? But interestingly, if our laws applied down there - labor laws and civil rights, it wouldn't be too long and many immigrants would be headed back down there. And guess what? Rich Americans would be able to go down there and buy up the land and develop it -- something that they can't do themselves with their systems. Mexico would modernize and Florida would loose its retirees to new Mexican states and with the baby boom, we'll need lots of warm climate territory! I can see lots of good things happening. Can't you? Just imagine all of those people being guaranteed minimum wages and having spending money! Our economy would burst at the seams with new sales! I can't believe that no one else here can see how easy this would solve so many problems.
Do Mexicans want to become part of the United States? LOL! The United States is becoming part of Mexico - so why not get ahead in the race? It'd be better to live under American laws and Mexican laws!
sp.
[ edited by Borillar on Sep 24, 2002 01:59 PM ]
posted on September 24, 2002 01:59:22 PM new
Borillar- Being "put on trial for gravid's obnoxious behavior" is a little bit of an overreaction. I was going head to head with gravid on the immigration issue and did not see any direct answer to my questions. As you are usually quite accurate regarding your quotes, I truly wanted to see where gravid may have responded so definitively. You are right about gravid's strange ramblings as of late and I agree with your statements above regarding gravid.
[ edited by stusi on Sep 24, 2002 02:11 PM ]
posted on September 24, 2002 02:20:05 PM new
Borillar- Your ramblings about Mexico are quite gravid-like! Although it is a tenuous situation to have an economically troubled nation at our border, I think it is naive and unrealistic to think that a mass immigration would "solve so many problems" for us as opposed to creating so many more problems. The border states would be overburdened with housing, education(not such a good track record), medical, crime and labor problems. What about the precedent this would set for other countries? You can't be serious about this!!!!????
posted on September 24, 2002 03:49:51 PM new
Woah, stusi! I'm only trying to bring up something interesting to talk about! Of course America will never go "incorporate" Mexico, with or without the consent of the Mexican people. But that doesn't mean that we here in the RT can't go speculating what might happen. My "ramblings" are just trying to dig up some thoughts to put onto the table. Try not to dismiss them all with one sweep of your hand, please.
Would there be a mass migration into the USA if we "incorporated" Mexico? I think the appropriate term is to "annex" Mexico. I think that this is worth an analysis!
The question is answered by another question: how many mexicians are wanting to be in the United States, but do not do so due to fear or respect for our laws reguarding illegal immigration? And I suppose one could add, does Bush's constant begging Mexico's President to send them to us have any bearing on the previous question?
Personally, I'd say that those who are going to come to America have already done so, or aren't worried in the least about our immigration laws. Most liekly, we would see a flood of new arrivals at first due to economic reasons. But since America laws attempt to make the playing field level, opportunities to become rich consumers will abound to those who stick it out in their homes down there, rather than the dangers presented on the trip up to here and the conditions that they would face. So, I'd say that within ten years, there would likely be a reverse migration INTO old Mexico, because of all of the rich opportunnites for developement come to fruition.
Take care of yourself. 
Yesterday, some bozo called me arrogant and ignorant in the same sentence. LoL.