posted on September 28, 2002 12:49:37 AM newLatest in crowd control: Valium
WASHINGTON - The US military is exploring ways to use drugs such as Valium to calm people without killing them during riots or other crowd-control situations where lethal weapons are inappropriate.
Some critics say the effort violates international treaties and federal laws against chemical weapons, an allegation the military denies.
'It's a rotten idea to drug rioters,' said Mr Edward Hammond of the Sunshine Project, a chemical and biological weapons watchdog group. 'Beyond being a horrible idea, it's illegal.'
Officials in the military's Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate held a discussion with British officials in 2000 to find a way to develop drugs for use as 'calmatives', or chemical peacemakers.
One hurdle is finding a way to deliver the substances to large groups, such as in a spray or a mist. -- AP
How long before they decide to "medicate" those sections of cities deemed 'dangerous'? This plan says it all about our fascist government -- only a Hitleror a HUSSEIN would turn weapons OF ANYSORT against their own countrymen.A "Leader of the Free World" shouldn't evenbe considering it.
posted on September 28, 2002 08:39:25 AM new
Sheese, thanks for ruining my morning. This is part of an email that came mid week, but I hadn't read it since its 8 pages long.
Just did. OMG. I hope you will check out the Sunshine Project website.
From paragraph below:
The Sunshine Project, while urging the United States to immediately halt this chemical weapons program, also announces its intention to take its allegations and evidence to the 7th Session of the Conference of the States Parties of the Chemical Weapons Convention, scheduled to start in The Hague on October 7th.
[Could this date be the reason for the big push to get countries to side with the U.S?]
US Military Operating a Secret Chemical Weapons Program Sunshine Project provides evidence for US violation of international
law
(Austin and Hamburg, 24 September 2002) - The Sunshine Project today accuses the US military of conducting a chemical weapons
research and development program in violation of international arms control law.
The charges follow an 18 month investigation of the Department of Defense's Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate (JNLWD). The
investigation made extensive use of the US Freedom of Information Act to obtain Pentagon records that form the primary basis of the allegations. An array of documents, many of which have been posted on the Sunshine Project website, demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that JNLWD is operating an illegal and classified chemical weapons
program.
Specifically, the Sunshine Project accuses the JNLWD of:
1. Conducting a research and development program on toxic chemical agents for use as weapons, including anesthetics and psychoactive substances, in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention;
2. Developing long-range military delivery devices for these chemicals, including an 81mm chemical mortar round, that violate the
Chemical Weapons Convention.
3. Pursuing a chemical weapons program while fully cognizant that it violates the Chemical Weapons Convention and US Department of Defense regulations;
4. Attempting to cover up the illicit program by classifying as secret even its own legal interpretations of the Chemical Weapons Convention and attempting to block access to documents requested under US information freedom law.
======================
<snip>
The Weapons: JNLWD's secret program is not focusing on highly lethal agents such as VX or sarin. Rather, the emphasis is on "non-lethal" chemical weapons that incapacitate. JNLWD's science advisors define "non-lethal" as resulting in death or permanent injury in 1 in 100 victims.(1) JNLWD's Research Director told a US military magazine "We
need something besides tear gas, like calmatives, anesthetic agents, that would put people to sleep or in a good mood." (2) These weapons are intended for use against "potentially hostile civilians", in
anti-terrorism operations, counterinsurgency, and other military
operations.
[b] The major focus of JNLWD's operation is on the use of drugs as weapons, particularly so-called "calmatives", a military term for
mind-altering or sleep inducing chemical weapons. Other agents mentioned as militarily useful in the documents are convulsants, which are dangerous cramp-inducing drugs, and pharmaceuticals that failed development trials due to harmful side-effects. [/b] (3) This interest in
so-called "calmatives" has been discussed in previous Project publications. (4)
<snip>
The Solutions:
1)UN Inspectors into the US: The Sunshine Project, while urging the United States to immediately halt this chemical weapons program, also announces its intention to take its allegations and evidence to the 7th Session of the Conference of the States Parties of the Chemical Weapons Convention, scheduled to start in The Hague on October 7th.
There, the Sunshine Project will present its case to governments and request tthe Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons send a UN weapons inspection team to the US to investigate.
2) US Oversight: The Sunshine Project calls upon the US Congress to investigate JNLWD's arms control violations, to conduct public
hearings, to hold JNLWD and its superiors responsible for their actions, to freeze all JNLWD funding, and to immediately declassify
all JNLWD documents.
<snip>
Escalation danger: JNLWD's chemical weapons program not only violates international law, it presents an escalation threat. Any use of
chemical weapons in a military situation - even if the agents are purported to be "non-lethal" - carries the inherent danger of
escalation into an all out chemical war and heightened violence. [b] If attacked with a chemical of unknown nature with a fast incapacitating effect, victims may assume that lethal chemicals, leading to
heightened violence or even retaliation in kind. [/b] This rapid escalation danger is one of the key reasons why the Chemical Weapons Convention prohibits the use of even tear gas or pepper spray as a method of
warfare.
<snip>
ANNEX TO SUNSHINE PROJECT NEWS RELEASE
"US Military Operating a Secret Chemical Weapons Program"
(24 September 2002)
An Outline of the Case Against the Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate
1. JNLWD is conducting a research and development program on toxic chemical agents for use as weapons in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention.
JNLWD's desire for chemical weapons is intense and widely documented. JNLWD has explicitly stated that it is operating a program to develop "calmative" chemical weapons (9). In May 1999, its Research Director told Navy News and Undersea Technology "We need something besides tear
gas, like calmatives, anesthetic agents, that would put people to sleep or in a good mood." [b] In 2000, JNLWD's Commanding Officer told New Scientist "I would like a magic dust that would put everyone in a
building to sleep, combatants and non-combatants." [/b](10) The Marine Corps Research University (MCRU), a major JNLWD contractor, produced an October 2000 study that concluded "the development and use of
calmatives is achievable and desirable" and urged "immediate consideration" of drugs like diazepam (Valium). (11) The unit that
produced the study is headed by JNLWD's former commander. JNLWD currently has a secretive technology investment program for
incapacitating chemical weapons that is being conducted in cooperation with the US Army's Aberdeen Proving Ground. (12) It is urging academic and private institutions to bring it new proposals for chemical agents
(13) and has repeatedly emphasized the need for the US military to develop a calmative capability. In addition, it recently concluded a new request for proposals that includes a call for "advanced riot
control agents", (14) a military synonym for drug weapons. In October 2001, it offered to equip US commercial aircraft with
calmative-dispensing weapons.
Edited for UBB. If it doesn't work this time I give up.
[ edited by aposter on Sep 28, 2002 08:47 AM ]
posted on September 28, 2002 08:45:30 AM new
I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few [they are trying to calm] were already on drugs much stronger than valium.
posted on September 28, 2002 09:32:31 AM new
Well that's pretty screwed up. When 9/11 happened, many suggested some kind of chemical, that could be used in the passenger areas of planes, that would put people to sleep in case of an attack. I would agree to that, but "crowd control"?? What crowds? Are they expecting big, uncontrollable crowds soon?
This was a good line..."Other agents mentioned as militarily useful in the documents are convulsants, which are dangerous cramp-inducing drugs, and pharmaceuticals that failed development trials due to harmful side-effects."
Is this to be used on our enemies or against the uncontollable U.S. people?
posted on September 28, 2002 09:34:46 AM new
Overall I think this is bad, but given how protesters act most of the time, think this is better than bullets.
posted on September 28, 2002 09:53:23 AM new
twelvepole, don't protesters act bad because they don't feel they're being heard or represented? Sure, you'll get the drop-outs and druggies, but you'll also get meaningful people that feel they're not being listened to. Linda makes a good, indirect point... what if the police used drugs to calm everyone down... What if there were drug reactions that lead to death? There's an awful lot of people taking medications already. Seizure drugs?? What about the epileptics in the crowd?, the pregnant?, the already drugged out person? It sounds like a Saddam tactic to me.
posted on September 28, 2002 10:37:01 AM new
Considering that some of these protesters don't seem to care about other people's rights or property, I don't really care if they do have a reaction to the drug.
If they think they aren't being heard or listened to, that is too bad, it doesn't excuse them to act like idiots and cause trouble for others.
Just keep protesting and if it is a worthy cause pretty soon people will notice, however act like an unruly mob and you will get the notice you probably didn't want.
Keep it civil and peaceful and I don't see a problem.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on September 28, 2002 11:06:26 AM new
Medicating people without their consent because of their behaviour goes against some of the basic principles of medicine. It also might violate human experimentation guidelines.
Valium does potentiate many other drugs. You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on September 28, 2002 11:06:58 AM new
{!!!}
This is making a lot of sense now. No wonder I kept reading about gene-altered glow-in-the-dark trees & bugs, terminator plants and plants that soaked up(ate)chemicals. Alot of the gm science may be going toward screwing our "enemies," not toward feeding the hungry or even the unsuspecting American public. Hope I am wrong!
Have any of you taken the time to read the Sunshine-Report? I don't think I could come up with any cute answers myself after reading part of that web site. These are papers they were able to obtain through FOI act. The 25%, if I remember, the rest our military said NO.
US Special Forces Seek Genetically Engineered Bioweapons
Austin and Hamburg, 12 August 2002) -
The US Special Forces have issued a brief but explicit request for US scientists to make proposals to create genetically engineered offensive biological weapons. This is the fourth US government proposal for anti-material biological weapons uncovered by the Sunshine Project this year. All biological weapons are prohibited by the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BTWC), which the United States is legally obliged to obey.
<snip>
The Special Forces Request
The US Special Forces' solicitation came in January 2002 as part of "Scientists Helping America", a cooperative effort between the Special Forces, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), and the US Naval Research Laboratory (NRL). Playing heavily on the US reaction to the September 11th attacks, "Scientists Helping America" asked researchers to show their patriotism by turning their talents to weapons, including bioweapons, specifically, genetically engineered bugs that eat materials and stealthy modified organisms (called "taggants" that can be used to invisibly "paint" a target so that it can be destroyed with other weapons later.
<snip>
The Special Forces desire was initially identified in a short May 1999 document by its Future Technology Working Group. The document identifies the military appeal of "a bio-engineered organism [that] can become a weapon by acting as a corrosive agent after a certain period of time or by a remote command". The same document sets out the uses of a "bio-organism that can be placed on a building and then grow across that building to act as an illuminator for target identification, or precision attacks" (taggants).
<snip>
Undermining Biosafety
Preventing genetically engineered disasters is a common concern of arms control and biosafety. The Special Forces propose to covertly introduce difficult to detect genetically modified organisms (GMOs) into third countries. The nascent international safety system for transboundary movement of GMOs (the Cartagena Biosafety Protocol) creates the fundamental requirement of consent. That is, deliberate introduction of GMOs into the environment must have the advanced informed agreement of a competent government agency in the receiving country which reviews the safety and desirability each new introduction on its soil. The Special Forces obviously will not seek permission from a country they are attacking.
<snip>
[Edited to take out some cussing]
[ edited by aposter on Sep 28, 2002 11:08 AM ]
posted on September 28, 2002 11:47:37 AM new
Scares me too. When the populace gets angry because the economy is bad or some other thing what's to stop our government from adding a little something to the water to make us pliable and complacent? Really, the government is way too secretive and getting more so all the time.Does anyone really believe they wouldn't do it if they could?
Aposter, I'll have to read the sunshine report later on. I'm running out the door in a few but it looks very interesting.Thanks for the link.
[ edited by rawbunzel on Sep 28, 2002 11:49 AM ]
posted on September 28, 2002 11:55:38 AM new
Brave New World......"Just take a Pill"
Or as Eisenhower put it, "Better Living Through Chemistry"
Maybe Saddam should ask the UN to have us dismantle OUR chemical weapons.
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
[ edited by mlecher on Sep 28, 2002 11:56 AM ]
posted on September 28, 2002 12:20:25 PM newReally, the government is way too secretive and getting more so all the time.Does anyone really believe they wouldn't do it if they could?
Oh, yes, I believe that Bush would consider doing such a thing in a nanosecond, if he thought he could get away with it. He is the most power-grabbing president so far.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washdc/2002/03/14/usat-secrecy.htm ...Bush's desire to keep information close to the vest predates Sept. 11. It is ingrained in his character, has shaped his presidency, was at the core of his management style during his six years as Texas governor and made him the watchdog for leaks in his father's administration
http://www.hillnews.com/080702/secrecy.shtm The Bush administration’s refusal to cooperate with even the most routine and basic congressional requests for information is infuriating members of Congress and violating congressional rights and responsibilities, members charge.
...Furthermore, the administration is exacerbating the frustration among lawmakers by failing to acknowledge requests for information — even as a courtesy.
A number of lawmakers are threatening to subpoena the administration — an extreme step reserved by lawmakers as a last resort to elicit cooperation on mundane inquiries.
...Since President Bush has been in office, the battle for information between Congress and the White House has spread to other areas such as environmental, educational and science issues, lawmakers say.
...But by delaying the release of information that could provide ammunition to its critics, the Bush administration has sidestepped a number of draining political confrontations and kept the country focused on the president’s agenda.
For example, the Bush administration has treated some environmental issues with the same level of circumspection previous administrations have reserved for national security.
http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/politics/3993298.htm As part of its "war on terrorism," the Bush administration has vastly expanded government secrecy, removing information from the public domain, limiting its disclosures to Congress and allowing law enforcement agencies to operate in the shadows.
..."This administration is the most secretive of our lifetime, even more secretive than the Nixon administration. They don't believe the American people or Congress have any right to information," said last week Larry Klayman, chairman of Judicial Watch, a conservative group that is suing the administration to force it to reveal the members of the energy task force.
posted on September 28, 2002 01:23:33 PM new
The use of valium exactly parallels the use of soma in Brave New World. What remarkable irony!
Of course in BNW everyone was required as a good citizen to voluntarily regularly take their rations of soma. Their patriotic duty so that their behavior would never cause instability or disruption to the state.
posted on September 28, 2002 03:00:47 PM new
Kraftdinner, apparently the request to get the briefing about airline passenger gassing has been denied. (See below) So we have no right to know.
Here I thought we had no right to know about our altered food & drug supply!
They want to use "pharmaceuticals that failed development trials due to harmful side-effects." Sheesh. Well, that would be a way to save billions spent on gm drugs that fizzle. Sell them to others to use on their enemies!
The Sunshine Project
http://www.sunshine-project.org
News Release
1 July 2002
Pentagon Program Promotes Psychopharmacological Warfare
The team, which is based at the Applied Research Laboratory of Pennsylvania State University, is assessing weaponization of a number of psychiatric and anesthetic pharmaceuticals as well as "club drugs" (such as the "date rape drug" GHB). According to the report, "the choice administration route, whether application to drinking water, topical administration to the skin, an aerosol spray inhalation route, or a drug filled rubber bullet, among others, will depend on the environment." The environments identified are specific military and civil situations, including "hungry refugees that are excited over the distribution of food", "a prison setting", an "agitated population" and "hostage situations". At times, the JNLWD team's report veers very close to defining dissent as a psychological disorder.
=====================
The Sunshine Project
http://www.sunshine-project.org
19 September 2002
The MCRU Calmatives Study and JNLWD: A Summary of (Public) Facts
More from the study:
<snip>
"We identified several drug classes (e.g. benzodiazepines, alpha-2-adrenoreceptor agonists) and individual drugs (diazepam, dexmeditomidine) as appropriate for immediate consideration."
<snip>
3. On 17 May 2002, shortly after NAS began releasing JNLWD documents requested by Sunshine Project under FACA, JNLWD Commander Col. George Fenton, USMC, wrote to NAS Executive Officer William Colglazier and stated that "We are in the process of working this issue with the Office of the Secretary of Defense General Counsel, until such time as you are further notified, you are not authorized to release the documents listed in Attachment B of reference (a)" (i.e. the list of documents requested by the Sunshine Project).
4. On the basis of the above letter from Col. Fenton, NAS has ceased complying with FACA and stopped release of documents. Other non-profit organizations that have subsequently made FACA requests for these documents have been referred by NAS to JNLWD, an apparent violation of federal law.
<snip>
25. According to Air Safety Week (15 October 2001) in the wake of September 11th 2001, JNLWD proposed to airline officials that calmative agents be deployed on US commercial aircraft. The Sunshine Project requested this briefing months ago under FOIA. It has not been released.
26. The Navy Judge Advocate General (JAG) has performed a legal review of non-lethal chemical weapons for JNLWD. The Sunshine Project requested this review from Navy JAG under FOIA. Navy JAG has denied release of this document because JNLWD has classified it.
posted on September 28, 2002 03:05:30 PM new
Sorry, Snowy, the only other link I have is to an expanded version of the AP article I posted above, but there *is* some good information in it -- such as the fact that this research into "calmatives" ( - what a word!) is being conducted at a Pentagon-funded institute at Pennsylvania State University, and that the Brits are in on it, too. Here's a link to that article:
posted on September 28, 2002 03:18:15 PM new
The Sunshine site has a link to the Penn State University site. I haven't read that yet.
Apparently, from what the Sunshine site says, the Institute at the University seems to have only ONE client.
Edit: Yup, plsmith. This was supposed to be a work day. Ha. I have been reading emails and websites about this a good part of the afternoon.
[ edited by aposter on Sep 28, 2002 03:19 PM ]
posted on September 28, 2002 04:22:29 PM new
What a farse. Yes, creative, new ways to benefit the scummy drug companies aposter. Who would have thought failed drugs would end up having merit after all? Poor Martha Stewart. If she just waited awhile, her Imclone stocks might have been worth a small fortune.
posted on September 28, 2002 05:18:11 PM new
Hi KD!
At times, the JNLWD team's report veers very close to defining dissent as a psychological disorder.
Of course it is! Any deviation from an established, immutable norm is insanity. It's the foundation for our New World Order, or Brave New World. The individual must sacrifice himself for the good of the state. If he or she is uncomfortable about obliterating any meaningful sense of independence or individuality, the good citizen can pop a pill, as mlecher explained. Or if he or she lacks social responsibility, the government can beneficiently intervene.
In BNW all of life's principles are reduced to the expression of singsong aphorisms. A further refinement of today's sound byte. For instance in relation to taking soma, one of them is, "Better a gram than a damn." I have a predilection that one of ours that will soon be emerging is, "A war a year keeps the incumbency here."
posted on September 28, 2002 06:36:52 PM new
I'm thinking The Stepford Wives here. A "world" run by men that give their wives pills to make them do laundry & shopping with no crabbing. But then there was The Revenge of the Stepford Wives! The men ended up dying or being arrested.
posted on September 29, 2002 05:29:06 AM new
This is not that far fetched. I mentioned it in another thread a while back.
But "calming" angry crowds is just the tip of the iceberg.
There is a US Supreme Court case that is several years old dealing with an execution case from I believe Alabama. Seems the prisoner was only "sane" when on psycho-active drugs. They couldn't execute him if insane. The Court ruled that they could use force to administer the drugs and execute the prisoner. Using force to administer mind altering drugs to enforce "justice" is at the root of the issue, and the Court allowed it. Using drugs to keep the public "peace" is by no means a stretch. Police already use chemicals to blind and cause breathing problems, why is using psycho-active drugs that muchof a stretch ?
Mapping the brain and its chemical functions is making great strides. So far these discoveries have provided facts that few people want to believe. One's very mental being is just a chemical activity, that can be manipulated. Precision of the drugs is the only impediment to the manipulation.
Think about drugging the majority of a population of a combatant country. The drug causes them to lose their will to fight, or perhaps concentrate.
Such that it is the case that our mental existence is processes that are chemical actions and reactions, mapping and finding precise ways to manipulate those processes is not that far off.
However, once this information gets out to the general public, it will cause a crisis in the religious community, as well as any "belief" system. Faith is just a chemical reaction of the brain, feeling positive or negative is just a chemical state of the brain, feeling scared, bold, inventive, happy, sad, angry, free, encumbered, energetic, or somewhere in between is just a chemical state of the brain.
What is real and what is a delusion ?
[ edited by Reamond on Sep 29, 2002 06:00 AM ]
posted on September 29, 2002 08:15:40 AM new
If they use a addictive drug such as valium to calm the crowds, their approach might just backfire on them. Scores of people might just riot on regular basis just for the calming effect brought about by the
liquid valium.
posted on September 29, 2002 01:37:46 PM new
kcpick4u -
I always think of stuff like that Reamond. That's why I thought those controlled LSD experiments in the 60's were so interesting. They showed that our minds are capable of different realities, kind of the same as dreaming, but they can be controlled by surroundings, etc. Very interesting stuff!
It would be pretty funny though, to work out some kind of meeting with some dictators and give them all LSD in their kool-aid. Wonder what would happen?
posted on September 29, 2002 06:09:37 PM new
Neuro-biology is creeping ever nearer toward abilities to manipulate the mind and to offer explanations of how the brain actually works.
I think that once they cross the threshold of mapping the chemical states of brains, it will cause a nervous breakdown of society- no pun intended.
Many people refuse to believe that our personalities are dictated by the chemical state of the brain, but the evidence has been around for centuries through alcohol consumption.
Imagine taking a pill that will literally change your mind in a deliberate manner. It's not that far off.
posted on September 29, 2002 08:27:44 PM new
If there are any samples of liquid valium,Send them on down my way.I've been feeling under the weather for a week now.
posted on September 29, 2002 09:04:44 PM new
I suspected that. If you're feeling good, you're mean to me and then I need the liquid valium... so, when you recover, send me whatever you have left over.
that can be used to invisibly "paint" a target so that it can be destroyed with other weapons later.
[ edited by mlecher on Sep 28, 2002 11:56 AM ]