"HEBRON, West Bank, Jan. 1 — Almost any young man walking the streets of this gritty Palestinian neighborhood on the eastern rim of the city can tell you the same thing: when the Israeli border police want to give someone a beating, they take him to the city's deserted industrial area after dark."
posted on January 2, 2003 01:34:02 PM new
The Palestinian Myth
"A factoid is a piece of information purported to be factual but which is actually spurious, or more precisely concocted. . . . In 1964, at the Jordanian Pavilion at the New York World's Fair, a major factoid was created: the existence of the State of Palestine and the existence of the Palestinian people. There has never been a nation called Palestine in the history of the world. If you believe otherwise, find a book written before 1964 that mentions such a state. As for the Palestinian people, they are, and were, simply any and all Arabs who are or were living in the territories (West Bank and Gaza) between 1948 and today."
posted on January 2, 2003 01:58:23 PM new
OK. So, simply keep in mind that one should replace the label 'Palistinian' with 'arab'. Instead of "the streets of this gritty Palestinian neighborhood" it should read, "the streets of this gritty arabic neighborhood."
Thanks for that info, Bear. Interesting to know and to remember.
posted on January 2, 2003 03:06:58 PM new
Which moves me to say...whether or not there was a country called Palestine prior to 1948, there *were* Arabs living there as they had for centuries. As they had for centuries. It was *their* homeland. They were not consulted as to the deposition of their homeland and more than a million were displaced. Of those that were left, Israel did everything it could to *prevent* them gaining a national identity.
It seems to me that the Palestinians are in the same position as American Indians were. How strange that while everyone beats their breast over the fate of the Indian, the Palestinians are denigrated for trying to keep their lands.
I guess the distance of time lends a totally different perspective and value. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 2, 2003 03:44:00 PM new
Why the #$%^& are we involved in this semitic problem.
factoid- America is a peace keeper.
We have turned this into a religious war when we should let the semites kill each other, not very nice I know but at least my children won't be in danger.
posted on January 2, 2003 03:48:52 PM new
Why isn't it possible to support statehood and dignity for Palestinians while supporting Israel's right to exist? Whenever this topic is discussed, there is an inevitable charge of anti-semitism. Until both Palestine and Israel feel secure, this problem will not end.
How do you think it feels to live under constant occupation and terrorism like the Palestinians are forced to do? And when they become angry and throw a rock, Israel responds with a bulldozer. When the bulldozers level homes and trees, the suicide bombers appear. How do you think the Israeli's feel to be constantly afraid of the terrorism of suicide bombers?
Fear and anger and tit for tat terrorism will continue until both sides make some major concessions. An international group of respected peacemakers is one answer. Of course, this should not include the United States as it is today. Bush can only keep on saying that Israel has a right to defend itself and Palestinians need to refrain from terrorist attacks against Israel. This policy, which ignores the plight of the Palestinians will simply maintain the status quo.
posted on January 2, 2003 03:52:40 PM new
I agree with your posts Bunni & Helen, although Katy brought to my attention that because the Palestinians are arabs, why don't they give the Palestinians land to call their own? Or the other surrounding countries for that matter. It was a good question.
posted on January 2, 2003 04:37:20 PM new
Why should other Arabs give them land? They had perfectly good land--it was taken from them. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 2, 2003 06:53:46 PM new
Take a close look at this photo. Then tell me how safe you will feel once this so-called "Palestinian" gets a nuclear weapon in his hand.
posted on January 2, 2003 09:41:24 PM new
Yes . . . just after the fall of Saddam and the missles all fall into terrorist's hands. Bye bye New York City!
posted on January 3, 2003 02:29:56 AM new
Palestinian sources are utterly unreliable. Remember the supposed massacre of 500 civilians at Jenin?
These are people who openly plot the murder of Israeli children, who shoot "collaborators" in the street, who turn their own children into human bombs. How can their account of Israeli military action be trusted to any degree? The lies told by Palestinians are just the public face of bloody terrorism.
Bunni, you seem to overlook that Israel was given by the British, and had the Arabs not waged a half-dozen wars against Israel in the last fifty years, there would be no "occupied territories." Land in the Golan Heights and near Jerusalem is held only for defensive reasons.
Take a look at a map of Israel. At its thinnest point (not including the disputed territories), it is about 10 miles wide. From Jerusalem it is 30 miles, a day's walk, to the coast. This is a tiny country, nearly indefensible by the U.N. partition.
I would reiterate that if the vast Arab nations would stop their campaign to destroy Israel, there would be no "occupied territories," no Intefadeh, and Palestinian statehood could happen immediately. Arabs have never offered Israel a moment's peace or respite from terror since Israel's inception fifty years ago. Any steps Israel takes to defend itself are IMO justified.
posted on January 3, 2003 08:47:46 AM newBunni, you seem to overlook that Israel was given by the British, and had the Arabs not waged a half-dozen wars against Israel in the last fifty years, there would be no "occupied territories." Land in the Golan Heights and near Jerusalem is held only for defensive reasons.
The majority of the Jews arriving in Palestine were well organised, motivated and skilled. In the early 1920s, they set up an underground army, the Haganah, or Defence. A Jewish shadow government was set up, with departments which looked after every aspect of society: education, trades unions, farmers, the "kibbutzim" settlements that spread across Palestine, the law, and political parties.
During World War II, Haganah fighters joined the British Army, acquiring military skills and experience. Not so the Arabs.
Prime target: In 1946, Irgun Zwei Leumi bombed the British army headquarters at the King David Hotel
At the same time, extremist groups such as the Irgun Zwei Leumi and the Lehi, or Stern Group, began a brutal campaign of assassinations, bombings, kidnappings, intimidations, disruptions and sabotage. Their actions were directed against Briton, Arab and even Jews.
During the World War, the Zionist movement clearly defined its objective as a dominant Jewish state in Palestine. Deep plans were laid.
....
Britain handed the problem to the United Nations. On November 29, 1947, the UN General Assembly voted to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab sectors.
There was violent and total Arab opposition, but wild Jewish acclaim. Fighting started almost immediately.
Even before the mandate ended, in April and May, Jewish fighters moved to protect, consolidate and widen the territory for the new Jewish state. Often they attacked areas designated for Arabs, and tried to depopulate Arab areas in the planned Jewish sector.
******
Yeah, I can see that the Palestinians have absolutely no reason to try to get their land back. What can they be thinking of? Poor Israel, why should it have to contend with the results of its actions?
edited for UBB
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
[ edited by bunnicula on Jan 3, 2003 10:48 AM ]
It's difficult to find a good unbiased history of the mid-east on the internet.
Your link is biased and contains pornography.
I had to shut down my computer to get rid of it all.
Under the link that you provided, http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/ if you scroll down to the category, "2000-present The Multi-Media War" you will find a link, "media Bias:CNN and others are misreporting the news. Click on that.
Scroll to the bottom of that page titled "factual Misreporting of the News A CNN Example"
Then, if you click on "Honest Reporting" you will find pornography.
posted on January 3, 2003 11:12:38 AM new
Ah, I see Bunnicula is once again trotting out the documented anti-semite Tim Llewelyn's opinion pieces and presenting them as fact. Llwellyn's agenda has been clear for years as his contribution to anti-Israeli propaganda and support of the palestinian myths.
Steve's link is one that I have had bookmarked for quite some time. Unlike Llewelyn, Rabbi Katz offers documented facts.
Helen, it is too bad that some mischief maker has gained access to the site and has misdirected the link. I've emailed Rabbi Katz about the link. Gee, wonder who would do something like that? Heh.
posted on January 3, 2003 11:22:46 AM new
C'mon Borillar. You didn't need to post a link. It is obvious that someone hacked into the site to misdirect the link. And you know full well that Steve isn't promoting porn. But by posting that link, it appears that YOU are. If you don't edit out your link, I am going to ask DianaAW to remove it.
(edited to add that after reading your last comment, I am convinced that you really are a sicko!)
posted on January 3, 2003 11:52:54 AM newUnlike Llewelyn, Rabbi Katz offers documented facts.
Oh sure, I clicked on one...
It said Mohammad Atta with an Iraq Ambassador in Turkey to plan WTC....
They can't even get an UNNAMED SOURCE to even admit to verifying that the meeting even happened in even someone's fantasy world....
Timothy McVeigh had help from IRAQ for the OKC bombing.
Oh, yeah...real believable stuff...NOT!
Probably alot of people's thoughts, fantasies(that's where that one link came from), things taken completely out of context, paraphrased with a definite slant.
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We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on January 3, 2003 12:01:47 PM newTimothy McVeigh had help from IRAQ for the OKC bombing.
Actually, this is a theory that has been reported numerous times in mainstream media. There's lots of varying opinions as to whether McVeigh acted alone or with foreign aid. For sure the government wrapped the case up speedily and dispatched McVeigh with astonishing swiftness given the usual routine for death penalty cases. Is it true? I will leave that to those conspiracy nuts like Borillar to hash and rehash. I've no doubt that he will come up with some cockamamie conspiracy that ties the OKC bombing to Bush personally, as is his usual obsession.
As for Mohammed Atta and involvement with Iraq, I think that is pretty much a given considering the evidence.
posted on January 3, 2003 12:18:30 PM newAs for Mohammed Atta and involvement with Iraq, I think that is pretty much a given considering the evidence.
I suppose the evidence you speak of is the lack of evidence that it DIDN'T happen. That is not evidence, that is psuedo-science.
There is no evidence, none whatsoever, that it happened. People said it happened, but no one saw it, no one recorded it, no one admits reporting to it.
Sort of like a polical smear tactic.
Even if there is no evidence, keep repeating the lie. Eventually, it will become truth...
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We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on January 3, 2003 01:18:05 PM new
Somehow I don't think that a Rabbi is going to post unbiased opinion, do you?
In point of fact, there have been rumblings in recetn years among the Israelis themselves about the tactics used by their government, both in the past & present. The UN has taken note of the use of torture by the Israeli police & military. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 3, 2003 01:36:37 PM newThe UN has taken note of the use of torture by the Israeli police & military.
LoL! Oh yes, and the meek denunciation of palestinian suicide bombers and terrorists by that same UN doesn't show the biased agenda of an organization that in essence is an ineffective moribund morass for career bureaucrats from third world countries. Maybe the UN would like to compare interrogation methods of Israel with Egypt or Syria? Hmmm?
Somehow I don't think that a Rabbi is going to post unbiased opinion, do you?
Of course Rabbi Katz opines in some articles. But he offer facts as proof for his arguments. Example: there is no such thing as an "ethnic" palestinian. No race, no ethnicity, just a hodgepodge of various cultures and conquerors over the centuries. There is no "palestinian identity".
The root of the middle east morass is the ethnic hatred of Jews. The Arabs aligned themselves with Hitler in WWII and to this day, it is the same message calling for the destruction and death of Jews that you hear in Arab mosques and read in Arab (state controlled) newspapers. That is the agenda of Arabs in the Middle East...not a so-called "palestinian state".
posted on January 3, 2003 02:19:12 PM newExample: there is no such thing as an "ethnic" palestinian. No race, no ethnicity, just a hodgepodge of various cultures and conquerors over the centuries. There is no "palestinian identity".
You just described the United States.
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 3, 2003 03:30:05 PM new
The "Palestinian Identity" is that their families were forced from their homes unlawfully, their lands taken, their homes and villages utterly destroyed.
"Ask any palestinian, they can name the village their family was originally from and even though it has long been bulldozed over by the Israelis to try and erase its very existence and they have never been there, they can still point out were it was on a map..."
I forget where I read that recently, but it stuck with me......
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We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
[ edited by mlecher on Jan 3, 2003 03:30 PM ]
posted on January 3, 2003 05:47:41 PM new
>conspiracy nuts like Borillar
Prove that, Katy.
On the other, hand, it is entirely proveable that you censor threads in here in the RT. Go ahead and complain to AW some more about something that you don't like and want to have removed. Frankly, I'm sick of you, your lies and distortions, and mostly your efforts to censor whatever you don't like on here. I personally would enjoy seeing Diana or any other AW employee delete your account and ban you from coming back here again.
