posted on January 11, 2003 01:43:43 PM new
Hearing the speech of Governor Ryan made me proud to be an American again.
I hope that all governors will follow his example and end the barbaric death penalty in the United States.
Just recently, a University of Maryland group headed by Dr. Raymond Paternoster, found that Maryland prosecutors are far more likely to seek the death penalty for black suspects charged with killing white victims. This represents a racial disparity that mirrors national trends and raises questions about whether capital punishment is being administered fairly.
Outgoing Gov. Paris N. Glendening last May halted all executions pending the study's completion.
posted on January 11, 2003 04:06:10 PM new
Halting executions until all possible testing is one thing, but blanket commuted sentances is typical of lame duck politicts, whether Republican (like Ryan) or Democrat.
Would he have done it if he had had a family member killed, most likely not.
[ edited by bear1949 on Jan 11, 2003 04:09 PM ]
posted on January 11, 2003 05:03:03 PM new
bear, you're assuming.
"to take a life when a life has been lost is revenge, it is not justice.
written to him by Desmond Tutu is true.
Such revenge can only backfire, causing the same suffering the families of the murdered experience. I wouldn't wish that pain on any other family.
There are innocent men on death row. State sponsered muder of an innocent is evil. He admits the system is broken. Should a broken system be allowed to continue, when it commits evil acts? My answer would be no.
You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on January 11, 2003 05:12:30 PM new
I went to the Governor's website today to take a look-see at the final report he and his commission is offering about the death penalty in IL. It was obviously a tremendous, carefully done effort.
I am anti-DP and have been for over ten years, but I still appreciate the effort taken here to demonstrate why it is such a failed system.
I don't know where I heard it today, might have been in Ryan's address, but there are even anti-DP groups, comprised of victim's family members, who are backing him on this decision.
posted on January 11, 2003 07:04:20 PM new
>Yeah,yeah,..I mis-spelled the title,sue me.
Funny, how you've pointed out this to me in the past; using it to try to make me look wrong, or foolish. Did I not tell you back then that I'd wait until you screwed up too? No? Well, I have!
posted on January 11, 2003 07:08:10 PM newNot everyone needs revenge
Tell that to the families of police officers killed in the line of duty. Tell that to the families of children abducted & killed.
Two years ago a friend of mine, a Harris County Deputy Sheriff was killed while arresting a car theft suspect. He was not typical of a lot of cops. He didn't have an attitude.
His killer, a 19 year old kid was found guilty of capital murder & sentanced to death.
Given the opportunity, I'd save the state of Texas hundreds of thousand of dollars & personally squeeze a trigger on the idiot. He has shows no remorse for his auction and it wouldn't bother me in the least to be his executioner.
posted on January 11, 2003 07:25:02 PM new
Bear, the violence has to stop somewhere. Some families of murder victims choose to stop it in their hearts. That's my thinking as one of those family members. Two wrongs will never erase the first wrong.
You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on January 11, 2003 07:32:26 PM newFunny, how you've pointed out this to me in the past; using it to try to make me look wrong, or foolish. Did I not tell you back then that I'd wait until you screwed up too? No? Well, I have!
Point made,Then edited.
YO "Borillar" it didnt happen!
[ edited by junquemama on Jan 11, 2003 07:36 PM ]
[ edited by junquemama on Jan 11, 2003 08:01 PM ]
posted on January 12, 2003 06:20:09 AM new
The man is simply willing to admit what any reasonable person would conclude - that mistakes ARE made from all the available evidence.
What is scary is remembering Bush saying at a news conference how he is 100% sure that there were no errors made in Texas and 100% of the people executed were guilty.
I have to assume he will have the same irrational ability to ignore reality in dealing with Iraq and N. Korea also.
posted on January 12, 2003 07:04:16 AM new
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
-Bertrand Russell
posted on January 12, 2003 08:01:29 AM new
A lot of governmental and congressional inaction or limbo is based on fear of losing corporate and voter support. Goveronr Ryan made a good decision that should have been made at the beginning of his term. Our governor in Maryland did the same. But now, there will be a newly elected Republican governor here, waiting in the wings, ready to lift the moratorium.
How can anyone condone the fact that innocent citizens will be murdered by the state in this country? When such primitive acts occurr, how can we call our country civilized?
Ryan is doing his best to look good right now. He has blood on his hands for the "liscense for bribe" scandal and wants to act look human now.
Many in his office have been charged and the government promises still more charges to be filed.
He will go down in Illinois history as the man responsible for many road deaths. He is not a god guy, he is grandstanding in an effort to raise is image.
He does not care a bit about people on DR, he just wants to look good....jerk that he is.
posted on January 12, 2003 12:20:44 PM new
kyms is right. Gov. Ryan is in big trouble. As to whether he is trying to save face or following his convictions (no pun intended} I can't say. He has done the democrats in Illinois a great favor with his tenure, though, as we only have one republican elected in the state government. I'm proud to say she is a woman.
I understand that our incoming Gov. is pretty upset over the decision and I won't even try to spell his name.
As for the pardons, well, our sleepy little community is pretty upset. We had a triple murder out in the country done by a white guy a few years ago and it was heinous. He killed an older couple and their daughter who had just had surgery and had he mouth wired shut. The father's throat was slit when he went into the yard to feed the dog. The mother was stabbed in the living room repeatly but the best was saved for the daughter who was hiding in the bathroom. He stabbed her so viciously that he broke his knife off when it got stuck embedded in her skull. I can't even imagine what strength it takes to do that.
The DNA was there and proven. His own lawyer didn't show up to represent him in the pardon hearings. The family is devastated.
And HE will sit in prison, hopefully, for the rest of his life with tv, computers, website {though I can't find it), library, visits and whatever else "poor" prisoners have available to them while the while the children and grandchildren can only visit their parents and sister under cold hard granite.
Yes, I believe ther are innocent people on death row and I think DNA is a must for proving guilt. After the guilt has been proven, though, I will not stand in the way of the law. I also wonder what ever happened to hard time?
posted on January 12, 2003 12:51:29 PM new
He called for a moratorium on the DP and appointed a commission to investigate it (three years ago) after 13 innocent men were exonerated and released from death row. He didn't just wake up yesterday and decide to do this as a way to distract the masses.
posted on January 12, 2003 02:27:12 PM new
As always, I am against the Death Penalty and the concept of Punishment itself. In a modern, civilized society, such notions are primative and knee-jerk reactions to problems; not well-thought out decisions based upon the merits of a case. That Punishment is society meteing out its own sadism to those whom it deems that it can get away with it, is itself a crime. That fear of the Death Penalty never stoped a killer from killing, nor has it brough back a single person from the dead through its execution, that at least should tell you that the idea is wrong.
Certainly, those who are a danger to society need to be incarcerated for as long as they are dangerous. And if nothing else, consider that the state should never be given the right to kill anybody under any circumstance.
There are better ways that an educated, enlightened society can deal with these things. If you say that it is better to have our revenge, to kill those who would kill us, to live like animals, then you may as well throw away Jesus and God as concepts worthy of the devotion of Man.
posted on January 12, 2003 04:42:16 PM new
The bribe scandal hit long before anyone thought about Death Row. The scandal just crept closer to Ryan himself in the past few months. He does have blood on his hands. Maybe he feels this DR grandstanding will help remove those stains...
The DR decision may be a good thing, but it does not change the fact the he was/is in bed with criminals (at least).
posted on January 12, 2003 05:19:54 PM new
I applaud his actions for 2 reasons.
First, the death penalty is irreversible. DNA evidence may get someone sprung, but if it isn't that black and white ( and many people wait months and years to get out, even when it is)an innocent man may get fried. Once he's fried, no further effort is made to exonerate him and the TRUE criminal goes free.
Secondly, economics- I have read that the average death penalty case costs the state a million bucks OVER and BEYOND the same case without the death penalty on the table - that money would be better used elsewhere. Life in prison is a hell of a punishment, regardless of those who think prison is a vacation- and it costs ME a lot less.
posted on January 12, 2003 07:48:27 PM new
If our only response to people who commit crimes is to terroize them, sadistically inflict pain and suffering on them, then are we any better than they are?
posted on January 12, 2003 08:05:22 PM newIf our only response to people who commit crimes is to terroize them, sadistically inflict pain and suffering on them, then are we any better than they are?
posted on January 12, 2003 08:37:44 PM new
I am a Canadian. We don't have the Death Penalty here. I'm also a Liberal person by nature.
But I feel that there should be a Death Penalty. The loss of victims lives can never be replaced.
But those lives are truly valued at zero if their killers ever do so again.
We can't afford as a society to have killers walking free.
And with budget cuts that's what many will do.
It's a cold hard world. It's a cold hard decision to pick up a gun or any weapon.
And it's a cold hard reality when someone is killed.
It's not the victims fault. It is the murderers fault and they deserve no more care than their victims.
It's not about revenge. It's about crossing the line. I'm not talking about Manslaughter. I'm talking about Murder.
I'm talking about anyone that would kill a Law Enforcement Officer. I'm talking about people that would kill to help perpertrate their crimes or kill a witness.
I'm even talking about a greedy CEO that would purposely kill people by not properly handling their products like what happened with those poor people in India when the Chemical plant wiped out a bunch.
posted on January 12, 2003 09:16:18 PM new
When you consider the possibility of executing innocent people before their innocence can be proved, the use of capital punishment is unacceptable. No matter how careful courts are, the possibility of perjured testimony, mistaken honest testimony and human error remain all too real..In addition to this possibility, capital punishment is also imposed with discrimination against certain classes of people. It is usually the poor, the illiterate, the underpriviledged, members of the minority groups and people without means to hire good lawyers who become candidates for the death penalty.
Killing is immoral and barbaric. In my opinion, no society should support purposeless vengeance.
