posted on January 30, 2003 08:15:45 PM new
Would-be shoe bomber Reid gets life sentence
Associated Press
BOSTON -- Richard Reid, the al-Qaida follower who tried to blow up a trans-Atlantic jetliner with explosives hidden in his shoes, was sentenced to life in prison today by a judge who warned him: "We are not afraid ... We are Americans. We have been through the fire before."
The 29-year-old British citizen cried, "You will be judged by Allah!" before being dragged from the courtroom in handcuffs.
Reid received the maximum sentence after declaring himself a soldier of war and denouncing U.S. foreign policy toward Islamic countries.
"Your government has sponsored the torture of Muslims in Iraq, and Turkey, and Jordan and Syria with their money and weapons," said Reid, who converted to Islam eight years ago.
U.S. District Judge William Young would have none of it.
"We are not afraid of any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid," said the judge. "We are Americans. We have been through the fire before.
"You are not an enemy combatant -- you are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war -- you are a terrorist. To call you a soldier gives you far too much stature. You are a terrorist and we do not negotiate with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice."
posted on January 30, 2003 09:51:49 PM new
It was reported the judge also said regarding the American flag hanging behind him 'would still be flying after this is long forgotten'.
I think this is a judgement that everyone will like.
posted on January 31, 2003 04:52:42 AM new
I'm waiting for posts about his bad childhood and how he shouldn't be held responsible.
Hoping he is held in the general population of whatever prison he goes too.
I can live with someone's un-American feelings. I can life with all the anti-American rhetoric from around the world but not terrorizes, Murdering mob of Islam Fundamentalist or any other self righteous group.
If it's a holy war they want. That's what they should have. Straight up, No hiding behind camels and sand dunes.
Islam hate's the infidels. That would be us. They hide behind a veil of peace but now that some have taken the terrorist plateau, they are behind them all the way.
Saudi Arabia has shown they are not our friend in any way, shape or form. It's being kept to a low profile because we need them to stage against Sadaam. A great deal of the funding for Al Quida comes from that nation and it's people. The sentiment is anti-American all the way. We have most support with the Iraqis people and many other Middle Eastern nations that are not our allies.
posted on January 31, 2003 05:25:05 AM new
Dear Reverend Colon
Please try to stick with relevancy here,
he was an Englishman and not an Iraqi.
Please read the article.
This is a logical debate we try to avoid extreme religious views; because of dogma associated with religions, ie the leap of faith’ as seen in those religions originating in the Middle East (namely Islam, Christianity, & Judaism),.
I am given to understand that it is reasonable to expect that, the last words to come out of a condemned LELIGIOUS man's mouth may have a strong religious attachment.
Being a Reverend, wouldn't yours?
It is reasonable to assume that the opinions expressed by this man are not shared with all Muslims, just as the opinions expressed by you are not necessarily shared by those that are a part of you particular denomination/sect/cult/religion.
I Think this is the reason some of our forefathers had the wisdom to see the need fore separation of powers between the STATE, the JUDICIARY & the CHURCH.
posted on January 31, 2003 05:48:13 AM new
"Please try to stick with relevancy here,
he was an Englishman and not an Iraqi.
Please read the article."
I never said he was an Iraqi.
Not extreme religious views. An item for debate.
Check my website. You find I'm very much against organized religion.
http://www.reverendcolin.com/
"I am given to understand that it is reasonable to expect that, the last words to come out of a condemned RELIGIOUS man's mouth may have a strong religious attachment."
You may be surprised. I'm not an overly religious person. I believe in treating others as you would like to be treated. No, No, austbounty I'm not talking about S & M. I believe in honesty, Intergity and most of all Humor.
"It is reasonable to assume that the opinions expressed by this man are not shared with all Muslims, just as the opinions expressed by you are not necessarily shared by those that are a part of you particular denomination/sect/cult/religion."
Read the Koran
"I Think this is the reason some of our forefathers had the wisdom to see the need fore separation of powers between the STATE, the JUDICIARY & the CHURCH."
posted on January 31, 2003 06:05:16 AM new
I do not think they should execute him. it would only make him a martyr for "the cause".
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on January 31, 2003 06:25:57 AM new
To me’ reverend’ implies Religious ‘rank’.
You are clearly anti-Islam,
And If you have read the Koran, then you are doing better to have an accurate understanding of it when Christian Scholars can’t agree on interpretation of the bible.
You are condoning war.
The current concern for threat of war is Iraq, and so I guess it’s all about subjective perception, I thought you meant them.
Should you start with those Muslims most accessible, namely the American ones??
posted on January 31, 2003 06:51:48 AM new
austbounty
<To me’ reverend’ implies Religious ‘rank’. >
Religion: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
<You are clearly anti-Islam, >
Not anti anything. I don't care for a lot of things. We have that right as American citizens. Onions really annoy me. People without humor bother me too but I pity them.
<And If you have read the Koran, then you are doing better to have an accurate understanding of it when Christian Scholars can't agree on interpretation of the bible. >
I guess I'm just a little smarter then they are. Just what is a Christian Scholar? Why not a Jewish Scholar or a Buddhist Scholar?
<You are condoning war. >
Not condoning but understand it's use.
<The current concern for threat of war is Iraq, and so I guess it's all about subjective perception, I thought you meant them. >
If we must go to war with Iraq, So be it. I have a bigger problem with Saudi Arabia then I do Iraq. Iraq is the one that can do the most harm at the moment.
<Should you start with those Muslims most accessible, namely the American ones??>
Start what?
posted on January 31, 2003 08:09:49 AM new
"It is reasonable to assume that the opinions expressed by this man are not shared with all Muslims, just as the opinions expressed by you are not necessarily shared by those that are a part of you particular denomination/sect/cult/religion."
Read the Koran
See....here's a problem I have with statements like these. "Not shared by all Muslims". How is the general public supposed to know that? If they ARE so against this behavior then why in the world aren't they SCREAMING it from the roof tops so all with believe that? Not only in our country, but worldwide. I'm sure if so many didn't silently support the belief about infidels vs. Muslims, they'd be making it WELL know.
posted on January 31, 2003 10:11:26 AM new"As he was dragged out of the courtroom," CNN reports, he yelled at the judge: "I'm at war with your country not for personal reasons but because you have killed so many nnocents, so many children. . . . My fate is in Allah's hands. . . . I leave you to judge."
posted on January 31, 2003 06:16:04 PM new
Reverend Colin
I have an acquaintance known to some of his mates as Rabi.
It's just his nickname.
He is not even perceived by anyone known to him as being of any religious rank.
“Murdering mob of Islam Fundamentalist or any other self righteous group.”
Would you include the Bush Klan into that group of the ‘self righteous’
I was using the term ‘Christian Scholar’ as an example.
I should more accurately have said ‘religious scholarchs.
Have you read the Koran?
I think we both understand the use of war.
I would have thought it obvious that the USA can do most harm at the moment.
If it's a holy war they want. That's what they should have.
Are you saying that they are ‘seeking’ war.
(I am happy to use whichever definition of ‘they’ you mention in this statement, which you care to elect)
“People without humor bother me too but I pity them”
I am glad to see that you are a compassionate man.
I reached out from my darkness,
and Reverend Colin gave me light,
I tried to argue but he made me see,
He no longer needs to pity me;
Because even I can be revered by some,
even if those ‘some’
are my kids, my mum and my nanny.
EVEN I CAN BE REVERED, EVEN A SCUM BAG LIKE ME.
My apologies for attempting a simplistic analysis of your text.
They ARE so much more.
posted on February 1, 2003 03:20:33 AM new
austbounty,
I'm glad you have friends and acquaintance.
No. I do not believe Bush is being self righteous with the Iraq situation.
I believe the US has done more damage by waiting and pussyfooting. We should have taken care of this long ago.
Yes, I do believe that Islam wants a Holy War. That's my opinion (Opinion's are like A** "you know the rest)
Do you mind me quoting your tirade for my up coming "Send me Money" brochure?
"I reached out from my darkness,
and Reverend Colin gave me light,
I tried to argue but he made me see,
He no longer needs to pity me;
Because even I can be revered by some,
even if those ‘some’
are my kids, my mum and my nanny.
EVEN I CAN BE REVERED, EVEN A SCUM BAG LIKE ME.
Amen
Reverend Aust"
apologies accepted.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
Reverend Colin
http://www.reverendcolin.com
posted on February 1, 2003 03:40:28 AM new
"See....here's a problem I have with statements like these. "Not shared by all Muslims". How is the general public supposed to know that?"
We know that because we know, but sometimes forget, that Muslims, Christians, Iraqis, Americans, etc. are individual people. Not massive single entities, but separate people.
We're always encouraged to forget that, about others, and about ourselves.
posted on February 1, 2003 04:07:06 AM new
Venerable Reverand Colin,
Please accept the following hymn with my blessings as appropriate as may or may not apply and subject of course to the relevant beliefs philosophies and sundry tenets as may be acceptable to you and yours with no obligation implied or implicit, to do with as you see fit.
It is void where prohibited by law.
I reached out from my darkness,
and Reverend Colin gave me light,
I tried to argue but he made me see,
He no longer needs to pity me;
Because even I can be revered by some,
even if those ‘some’
are my kids, my mum and my nanny.
EVEN I CAN BE REVERED, EVEN A SCUM BAG LIKE ME.
Amen
Reverand Aust
[ edited by austbounty on Feb 1, 2003 04:08 AM ]
[ edited by austbounty on Feb 1, 2003 04:09 AM ]
posted on February 1, 2003 04:24:10 AM new
Venerable Reverend Colin,
Again I reach out to thee,
Do you absolve me of your Pity?
Am I worthy?
I pray for Thee to judge me 'truly' and swiftly.
posted on February 1, 2003 09:28:23 AM new
Hi Donny - [Wish you were here more often]
Yes, I understand that. What I'm referring to is the basic belief the Muslims [appear to me - from all that I've read] to be of the belief that all who are not Muslims should be eliminated. Whereas, say, the Christian faith, the Jewish faith, etc would like to convert - feel their way is the right way, but don't threaten to kill the infidels, Jews or any who oppose them [choose not to join their ranks].
That's what I meant when I said if there are Muslims who are in disagreement with what the fanatics preach [the Muslim clerics] then why aren't we hearing [those same Clerics] voice their dissent?
Is that any clearer?
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 1, 2003 09:33 AM ]
posted on February 1, 2003 09:54:48 AM new
Yes Helenjw...
They aren't listening....
Like with Sodom and Gomorrah, God said if there were 10 righteous people in the cities, he would spare them.....
God was a liberal
However, the Neo-Conservative way is not to listen or acknowledge the dissenting voices. This makes it easier to demonize entire races, religions, cultures and region. You just have to believe, and get everyone else to believe, that they are ALL like that.... Paves the way for utter destruction with impunity and self-righteousness.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on February 1, 2003 10:03:45 AM new
HelnJW
"[I]posted on February 1, 2003 09:44:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have heard them. You just aren't listening.
Helen"[/I]
I thought you were one of the sharpest ones here.
Am I missing something, have we been seeing oppinions expressed by Muslims or their clerics.
I'm going for a stab on this one and venture to say that I would have thought the reason we haven't heard them 'voice their dissent' is because we aren't on the 'right' chat site.
+
not many lap tops in Afghanistan.
posted on February 1, 2003 10:51:55 AM new
"It is reasonable to assume that the opinions expressed by this man are not shared with all Muslims, just as the opinions expressed by you are not necessarily shared by those that are a part of you particular" denomination/sect/cult/religion.
This, I agree with. Sorry for the musunderstanding of my post. I was disagreeing with Linda.
posted on February 1, 2003 11:27:32 AM new
Here's an interesting paper about how the Christians are treated under Islam by the Palestinian Authority and else where in the Islamic nations. Gives some insight to the Islamic feelings.
posted on February 1, 2003 11:54:18 AM new
I found this site while searching the web. Daniel Pipes,
Not familiar with him but he seems to be very knowledgeable about the middle east and the Militant Islamic movement.
http://www.danielpipes.org/
Anyone have any info on him? Excellent creditials.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
posted on February 1, 2003 12:00:52 PM new
Someone had suggested we are picking on Muslins with undo srutiny. I found this by Daniel Pipes written in the New York Post on January 24, 2003. The entire articial can be read by clicking on the hyperlink or cut and pasting it.
Thanks Linda for the help with hyper.
"Does singling out Muslims for additional scrutiny serve a purpose? And if so, is it legally and morally acceptable?
In reply to the first question - yes, enhanced scrutiny of Muslims makes good sense, for several reasons:
In the course of their assaults on Americans, Islamists - the supporters of militant Islam - have killed nearly 4,000 people since 1979. No other enemy has remotely the same record.
Islamists are plotting to kill many more Americans, as shown by the more than one-group-a-month arrests of them since 9/11.
While most Muslims are not Islamists and most Islamists are not terrorists, all Islamist terrorists are Muslims.
Islamist terrorists do not appear spontaneously, but emerge from a milieu of religious sanction, intellectual justification, financial support and organizational planning."
