posted on February 4, 2003 03:14:19 AM newDr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, leader of the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain, said: "He continues to hurt the cause of Muslims.
And I very much agree with Dr. Siddiqui. We are asked to see Muslims as a 'peaceful' religion. Then many of their clerics make statements like these.
Glad to read the reaction these type of statements are receiving, especially from leaders such as Dr. Siddiqui.
posted on February 4, 2003 04:08:28 AM new
I agree this guy, Abu Hamza, is a real jackass. But, we have to remember that his viewpoints are not the viewpoints of all Muslims! Things are bad enough without anyone starting a "Hate All Muslims" campaign.
After 911, I saw many Muslim shops in my area become vandalized. A good friend of my son's just 16 years old couldn't walk down the street without things being shouted at him. His father was killed in a "suspicious" fire. I saw good hardworking families suffer for something they neither did or supported. So, when we start reading things like this, please remember that these articles are written to shock and anger people. Comments made by Abu Hamza are meant to do the same thing. We mustn't allow what this idiot says to poison what we know is true: Not all Muslims are murderous and hateful people.
posted on February 4, 2003 05:01:37 AM newBut, we have to remember that his viewpoints are not the viewpoints of all Muslims! Things are bad enough without anyone starting a "Hate All Muslims" campaign.
His views are the viewpoints of many Muslims clerics I've heard quoted. And to discuss an article where this radical's statement is featured in an article doesn't mean anyone is starting a "hate all muslims" campaign. Just readin' the facts.
So, when we start reading things like this, please remember that these articles are written to shock and anger people. Start reading? I've been reading these type of articles since 9-11....maybe before. They're not written to 'shock and anger' [for the purpose of shocking and making angry], but rather to present the 'other side' of what we're dealing with. Though they may 'shock and anger' some.
posted on February 4, 2003 05:08:59 AM new
Thank you Linda for understanding my post and not "reminding" me of common-sense observations.
Cheryl, It doesn't take a scholar to figure out that those are not the views of all Muslims I was merely posting an article that I read this morning, not trying to start a debate on Muslims...
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
posted on February 4, 2003 07:35:34 AM new
Linda's quote
We are asked to see Muslims as a 'peaceful' religion. Then many of their clerics make statements like these.
End quote
I've noticed that also, Linda.
And as we consider basic logic, it does not make good sense to suggest that all Muslims are hateful based on the fact that only some Muslims preach hateful messages.
The same is true in religions throughout the world. In the case of Muslims, the message by Abu Hamza, is being brought to our attention in an effort to sway opinion against this group.
Abu Hamza has been banned from preaching his hate filled sermons and good, peaceful Muslims want him kicked out of the country.
posted on February 4, 2003 07:44:58 AM newit does not make good sense to suggest that all Muslims are hateful based on the fact that only some Muslims preach hateful messages.
So...who's doing that? Not me. But I am pointing out that I've seen these same hateful speeches made by other Muslim clerics and as I stated in another thread, I've seldom seen others speaking out against it. In this case, they are. And I'm very pleased to see that.
posted on February 4, 2003 09:04:20 AM new
I have to wonder where the assertion that there are "many" hateful Muslim clerics is coming from, since it always seems to be the same three or four. Do a search on Google for "Muslim cleric" and "hate" and see how many incidents you come up with. Most are stories about hate crimes committed against Muslims. The first one I found that featured a true "hateful cleric" was actually about a Muslim who was responding (not very politely) to Jerry Falwell calling the prophet Muhammad a terrorist.
Taking these few whackos out of context is about like asking me (an open and notorious Baptist) "Why are there so many hateful Baptist clerics out there?" and for proof, citing Falwell, Pat Robertson and the Rev. Fred Phelps.
You may not have heard of Rev. Phelps. But here's his take on Columbia:
The 7 Are in Hell! (If you don't have Acrobat, try this link to get the general gist of this guy's statement.)
What an IDIOT!!!!
(edited to fix links in the last paragraph and clarify the first. I just can't find evidence that "many" hateful Muslim clerics even exist.)
[ edited by msincognito on Feb 4, 2003 09:31 AM ]
posted on February 4, 2003 09:24:54 AM new
I believe the media has some responsibility here. I don't see why the pronouncements of a jerk who's essentially been shunned by the leaders of his own religion deserves even one square inch of space in any respectable newspaper.
Oh, wait, we're talking about The Sun! (Motto: The Sun never sets on our willingness to distort, sensationalize and slander! Plus NAKED GIRLS!!!!)
posted on February 4, 2003 09:45:24 AM newthe pronouncements of a jerk who's essentially been shunned by the leaders of his own religion deserves even one square inch of space in any respectable newspaper.
Yes, this one is a jerk and WAS denounced by his own faith as being a fanatic. Agreed. My opinions have been formed because while many of these clerics [from a lot of different Muslim/middle eastern countries] have made statements about detroying our country...killing the infidels...killing the Jews.....cheering at our WTC tower being destroyed, etc. I haven't read many like this DR. coming forth to denounce them. What is usually seen, is silence.
I would like to see more of this DRs actions when these statements are made.
posted on February 4, 2003 09:48:21 AM new
Good. Thanks wgm. IMO, if more of that same thing were to happen, it would be a super way to promote peace between many people.
posted on February 4, 2003 10:11:40 AM new
Again with the "many." I just haven't seen that many - and I've been looking, and looked again before I made my initial post. I've seen a few. And every single story I've seen has included an IMMEDIATE denouncement from at least one or two other Muslim leaders, as this story did.
Maybe it depends on your definition of "hate." I don't characterize Muslim clerics who are simply harshly critical of U.S. policies as being hateful. To me, that term is reserved for those who call for, or rejoice in, the misfortune or death of innocent non-combatents. (I guess that includes Charlie Daniels, too ...)
posted on February 4, 2003 12:10:05 PM new
Itg also depends on your sources for news as so many of the "right-wing" sites will not include such rebuttals by other muslims, thereby giving a slanted view. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on February 4, 2003 12:44:46 PM new"The Muslim fanatic called the Columbia crew “thugs of space” who deserved to die."
He denounced the team — made up of Americans, an Israeli and an Indian-born Hindu — as a “trinity of evil” punished by Allah.
This goes to show that stupidity and religious bigotry is not reserved for American televangelists.
"The 45-year-old cleric said they were “criminals” bent on boosting military satellite technology so America could dominate the world."
He's not the only one fearing that this is what the G-8 nations are up to with the space station. Most other countries are suspicious of our space endeavors and the paranoia is not being helped by Bush's constant millitarization of space. You don't have to be a fundamentalist muslim to think that!
posted on February 4, 2003 02:30:47 PM new
You joking bunni? While it's often stated here that I only get my news from Fox...that really is untrue. And if you'd check the URLs I post, you see that's not true.
Just because someone makes an accusaton here, doesn't mean it's true.
I read ...probably 5-6 different online news sites each morning. Some not in our country. Try to get varied opinions.
For example, After I purchased an article from the New York Times archive, you accused me of copying the article from the Moscow Times and then asked if I was a Communist. Remember that?
You also, in that same post said that the burning of the American flag means nothing to me. How do you presume to know how I *think* WHERE do you get these ideas? I've never burned an American or any other countries flag.
We have discussed protestors who burn flags and their possible motivations. That's all.
So you exaggerate the facts and make unfounded accusations.
posted on February 4, 2003 03:47:02 PM new
Lordy, what does this have to do with the topic at hand here? It is about a muslim cleric who was rejoicing in the 7 astronauts deaths... and there ya go.... let it rip..
Damn.. Borillar, well Chinas bout ready to launch, for EXPLORATION and SCIENTIFIC reasons, so? Afraid we're putting those sci fi lasers up there? Or they are? Have you been up late listening to George Noory too?
posted on February 5, 2003 01:42:05 PM new
Cleric barred from mosque
Militant had called astronauts 'evil,' praised 9/11 attack
By DON VAN NATTA Jr. New York Times
LONDON -- The government Tuesday removed Britain's most outspoken Muslim cleric, Abu Hamza al-Masri, from his post as imam at the Finsbury Park mosque, which the authorities believe is an active recruitment center for violent Islamic radicals.
The Charity Commission's decision to ban al-Masri from preaching at the north London mosque comes a day after he declared that the crew of the Columbia space shuttle -- five Americans, an Indian-born Hindu and an Israeli -- represented a "trinity of evil" punished with death by Allah.
Al-Masri said British Muslims would take it as a "sign from God" that the first Israeli astronaut was killed by a disaster over a town in Texas named Palestine. Days after the Sept. 11 attacks, al-Masri praised the 19 suicide hijackers as martyrs, saying, "Many people will be happy, jumping up and down at this moment."
Al-Masri, a 44-year-old, Egyptian-born, militant Muslim who is wanted in Yemen on terrorism charges, "had used his position within the charity to make inappropriate political statements," the Charity Commission announced.
I was merely posting an article that I read this morning, not trying to start a debate on Muslims...
