posted on February 17, 2003 09:19:42 AM new
Yes I do Twelvepole... and many Canadian soldiers died liberating France.
I just find it pecular concept that a victim should be stripped of the right to free speech if that opinion should differ from that of the rescuer... Or does that only apply to foreign victims?
American soldiers were killed in France by Germans. I kind of find it odd that Americans might feel that, as a result, France, the victim, was at fault for the deaths rather than the Nazis and that the French should lose their right to free speech but not the Germans?
Perhaps some Americans like ebayguy (and yourself) feel that they are some sort of Master Race and they, and whomever they deem to be allies ,should be the only ones on this planet entitled to free speech?
posted on February 17, 2003 09:47:07 AM new
I feel the same way Rooney does. France seems to forget that we liberated them from the Germans. We bought their support with American lives and now they turn their backs.
New opinion:
Regardless of how one feels about pending war, we must support our military personnel. No more Vietman era of spitting on returning soldiers.
posted on February 17, 2003 09:49:16 AM new
stockticker,
My Father joined the RCAF and fought in Europe with the RAF before the United States came into WWII. He later went to the 8th Air Force.
He talks little about the war but when he does, he always has great things to say about those he fought with.
"Do you feel any Americans shouldn't have the right to speak up and express their opposition to the war?"
posted on February 17, 2003 09:55:22 AM new
Iraq has not invaded the U.S., Valleygirl. No Iraqi soldiers have landed on American soil. If they did, then yes, France should come to its aid - and most probably would, on a much more timely basis than U.S. came to its rescue.
Irene
[ edited by stockticker on Feb 17, 2003 09:59 AM ]
posted on February 17, 2003 09:59:44 AM new
What Rooney failed to mention, was that one of the first U.S. missions of WWII was in N. Africa (could have been the first mission?)
Where the French troops there fought hard AGAINST U.S. and British troops, killing over 500 U.S I believe.
I think it was operation Torch? But the French were fighting against the U.S. and British.
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on February 17, 2003 10:16:49 AM new
::Regardless of how one feels about pending war, we must support our military personnel. No more Vietman era of spitting on returning soldiers.::
I seriously doubt that will ever be seen again. I know that here in San Diego with it's large military presence all of the Anti War Rallies have been located far way from the bases. People realize that the Marines and Naval service people here have no say in the matter, that they have simply made a comitment and are living up to it. I think our service people will find more resistance overseas than they will here as we have clearly seen the fallout of the Vietnam era.
posted on February 17, 2003 11:00:11 AM new
Isn't America Special....
Now only are we the ones to decide who get the GOOD weapons but now we decided which countries have the right to free speech. And what freedoms other countries are allowed to have. Yeah, France should support us blindly because they OWE us, they have no right to be their own country because they OWE us.
They owe us nothing....
I'd like to remeber a little conflagration called the....AMERICAN REVOLUTION where if it weren't for the French, where would we be? We would still be speaking english..... Okay, how about poor dentistry?
World War II was just us paying them back for their helping us then. And even then, we got there late for the party...
.................................................
Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Firemen, Police.
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
[ edited by mlecher on Feb 17, 2003 11:00 AM ]
[ edited by mlecher on Feb 17, 2003 11:01 AM ]
posted on February 17, 2003 11:43:49 AM new
I'm not what you'd call a big fan of the French but this piece stinks. At one time, Rooney actually checked (or paid someone to check) facts before he reported them, and his pieces actually showed some forethought. In this one, he does neither.
Overall, the piece is along the lines of the "Oh yeah? Well you're a STUPIDHEAD" response that people are having to very real concerns about the impact unjustified U.S. military action is going to have on our allies.
And specifically, I didn't have to get very far into the piece to find a statement that wasn't true. A few samples:
"They may even be selling stuff to Iraq....." He didn't get more specific than that, because what he'd have to say is that France has not been accused of violating the sanctions against Iraq, which are limited to the sale of oil to buy food. Iraq may not be following that particular sanction, but French companies have exactly the same rules (and are following them) as U.S. companies do.
Along with the British, we got into the war and had about 150,000 guys killed getting their country back for them. The "along with the British" is a nice dodge, since the Brits lost as many troops in Europe as we did. Still, I doubt it ever got this high, since France was liberated before the Battle of the Bulge.
They don't want to call attention to the fact that we freed them from German occupation. I heard Steven Spielberg say the French wouldn't even let him film the D-Day scenes in “Saving Private Ryan” on the Normandy beaches. They want people to forget the price we paid getting their country back for them.
This is just a vicious lie. There are memorials all over France to fallen American soldiers (ironic in the sense that this country has yet to build ONE WWII memorial.) There were several ceremonies last year when the president visited Normandy, including a visit to the church where U.S. paratroopers are honored in a gorgeous stained-glass window, and in terms of Spielberg asking to film there, I recall no stories about him even asking to film there but if he had asked, I would hope he would be turned down flat! Drawing that kind of conclusion is kind of like saying "Oh, you won't let us have a keg party in the Louvre for 800 of our closest friends (with about 17,000 gallons of fake blood.) I guess you're just not grateful that we saved your froggy butts."
posted on February 17, 2003 12:52:56 PM new
I saw the piece and I can sympathize with Andy's position. However, he is wrong. Each nation does what it should for the best benefit of that nation. France did those odd things because they felt that it was best for them to forget the horrors of German occupation. By having Americans push that awful German occupation into their faces only pisses them off more by reopening the wounds and they feel that Americans are rubbing salt into them.
We also didn't go into France just to liberate the French. Far from it. We went in there to get the Germans OUT. There's a difference. Not to the troops, perhaps, but certainly the plight of the French was only barely tolerated. Look at how they treated Charles DeGaul prior to the invasion. Look at the fact that the French Undergound was only good for helping their operations against the germans. Other than that, the French were looked upon like week-old snot.
No. We didn't go there to "liberate" France -- we went in there to defeat Germany and France just happend to be along the way. Sorry if you see it differently than history.
posted on February 17, 2003 01:47:22 PM new
Borillar,
"We also didn't go into France just to liberate the French. Far from it. We went in there to get the Germans OUT."
And we should have occupied it just like Japan and showed them how to make a great country.
Besides this Iraq mess, jjust look what those back stabbing POS' are doing in the Ivory Coast.
[ edited by MKtwo on Feb 17, 2003 02:01 PM ]
posted on February 17, 2003 02:08:58 PM new
stockticker said: "I'm curious, eBayauctionguy. Do you feel any Americans shouldn't have the right to speak up and express their opposition to the war? "
I have absolutely no problem with people's right to speak up and oppose a war. But I also have the right to express my support for a war on Iraq and other threats to world peace.
I also have the right to express my opposition to socialists, liberals (same thing), enviro-wackos, terrorist sympathizers, and other anti-Americans.
I may not like your philosophy and what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it.
posted on February 17, 2003 02:39:00 PM new
Valleygirl
<quote>
"Regardless of how one feels about pending war, we must support our military personnel. No more Vietman era of spitting on returning soldiers."
<end quote>
This was never reported by a reliable news source. No one in America held soldiers responsible for the Vietnam War, just as those opposed to war now will not find soldiers sent to Iraq responsible for that war.
posted on February 17, 2003 02:44:33 PM newNo one held soldiers responsible...oh no....they just spit on them and called them baby killers. that's all.
posted on February 17, 2003 02:51:43 PM new
I've always like Andy Rooney, although I haven't always agreed with each and every thing he's ever spoken. I find it humorous.
Taken from The Australian news 2-17:
Ultimately, agreement to begin planning Turkey's defence could be reached only by bypassing France altogether and using NATO's Defence Planning Committee, from which Paris withdrew in 1966. Paris participates only in political consultations.
"We have been able, collectively, to overcome the impasse. "With France sidelined as talks continued late into the night on Sunday, Germany dropped its objections to the US request and Belgium followed hours later.
The US called the decision a "very big step forward" for the alliance, even without France.
Past actions of France don't bother me as much as their current actions have.
posted on February 17, 2003 03:06:23 PM new
twelvepole - That's the only way she might even consider the fact that it did happen. Then again...she probaby still wouldn't believe.
posted on February 17, 2003 03:12:42 PM new
Helen,
I thought you were older. My mistake. You must be too young to remember when our troops were returning from Nam. Either that or you lived as a hermit or in a cave or ???
Our troops were treated like crap when they returned.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
posted on February 17, 2003 03:33:20 PM new
Um helen, my husband would severely disagree with you, as he had it thrown on him, plus the screaming name calling. And it wasn't just him...
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on February 17, 2003 03:36:03 PM new
I don't have any idea how old she is, but if she really believes the Nam guys were treated GOOD, she truley has magical thinking!
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
[ edited by Twelvepole on Feb 17, 2003 06:30 AM ]
Okay, how about poor dentistry?