I figured I could go look now without being so deeply affected. I was wrong. But I still opened each and every picture and looked. There was a lot I had not seen before.
What I found especially moving was the pictures of the firefighters going up the stairs as the other people were going down. Thise are likely the last pictures taken of many of those brave men.
I think there should be a new slogan. Here in Texas, It once was "Remember the Alamo" where every Texan was slaughtered to the last man. The new slogan should be something like: "Never forget".
A greater man than I once said "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance".
posted on March 10, 2003 11:00:18 PM new
bones, the site is down due to extensive viewing!! Way to go, we all must remember, I save a few sites never to forget
anyone who cares I think_ hell I hate war, don't want our families to go through this again, can't stand bush but BY God I will support our troops 200%, Our world was changed there is not NORMAL anymore...God bless us all.
posted on March 11, 2003 12:34:49 AM new
With no disrespect to the dead or their close ones, also remember that many of those do not want the blood of their loved ones used as a justification for aggression.
I don’t know that I could be so benevolent after having lost a loved one, I think I would probably be looking for blood and be quick to accept most accusations of association with the murder of those 3000 in the WTC.
This was murder and it was abhorrent.
It was not an isolated occurrence, without basis and motivation driven by ongoing social, political, economic or military conflict between certain Arab nations and us, as was the bombing of Australians in Balli.
The September 11 attack came about as a result of ongoing conflict.
Also remember the death of 800 unarmed civilian families of PLO members in Lebanon, about 20 years ago; at the hands of Israel’s then allied Lebanese Christian Militia, as Israel looked away after American Troops under Reagan Pulled Out the ‘peace keeping’ force. (A Belgian court this year found Sharon guilty of war crimes, he ‘oversaw’ this.)
Then America turned around and went straight back in, to ‘keep the peace’.
Then we saw the rise of Hamas members bomb a US embassy, killing about 16 (8 were CIA) and a US military establishment killing another 200+.
Then we saw an American CIA associated organisation, plant a bomb outside a Mosque, missing their intended victim but killing 200+ civilians after leaving prayer, yes, there were American terrorists.
It was been tick for tack, since then, and the losses are measured in the lives from the masses.
Retaliation will be the motive for many, until at least one side is no more, or peace is achieved.
Who is the other side, you may well ask.
I wish I knew and I wish our leaders knew, especially Bush.
The ‘other side’ rightly or wrongly, seems to be increasingly perceived as All Muslim Nations.
The more we express that belief, the more they in turn perceive the problem to be us vs them, and vise versa.
And it just goes on and on.
What in the hell were we doing there in the first place.
Expanding our sphere of ‘influence’, that’s what. It seems we (Anglo Dominated Nations) were involved since C19th and upped the stakes by creating a Jewish Nation smack centre of the Arabs.
No respect at all, for others, or for humanity, just self-interest.
The fact is, they (the Arabs) have oil, and we don’t.
If we give them money for oil, then they will have money, and we will still need oil.
The powers that be, think horror that another will be richer.
Well then, we make conflict, and then we go to war, because they are trying to get up to us, and so we drag them down, for fear that they will become the dominant economy.
Who will lo$e the most?, he who has the most to lo$e.
Is that you or your leader.
But who will lose the most lives in this economic driven war,
The masses, that’s who, 3000 here and 800 there.
I don’t see any oil magnates $upporting their countries; they now charge ‘as much as the market will bear’: So much for patriotism.
Remember the dead, but remember the living too, and do not be blind to facts.
Am I a hippy leftie for thinking that the desired ‘end’ is happiness and harmony.
Where did we get this Idea that economic growth is the ‘ends’.
Remember the families of the 3000, don’t you think those families would be happier if we had never involved ourselves in the Middle East in the first place, not for Israel not for war not for oil not for a canal. But we did.
Fighting does not make right. “Might makes Right” is sarcasm.
I think I probably want the same as you, peace and happiness and health for me and mine. (self interest?).
As we see ‘improvements’ in the destructive force of weapons, morality must catch up or we will pay the price. But what would the ‘humane’ weapons’ lobby say of that: I’d say, much the same as the oil lobby, the same as PNAC.
The way we’re going, I hope we DO see the new century out, because we certainly won’t see the millennium.
posted on March 11, 2003 07:21:55 AM new
I am surprised some of the leftie war protesters haven't said that firemen should not go into burning buildings because they could hurt themselves, others could get hurt, and some terrorists might not like it and come after us again.
I guess the peaceniks just can not understand bravery and the need to put out fires and save lives - even if it may cost you your life, and some others.
I never really though about the similarities between firefighting and keeping the world free from despots and terrorists.
You have to be willing to go into a burning building. It is amazing the number of people who aren't willing.
posted on March 11, 2003 08:45:06 AM new
Thanks bones, for sharing those URLs.
Hard for me to understand the thinking of those who want to sit back and wait until we are attacked again before taking action against those who threaten America.
posted on March 11, 2003 09:02:36 AM new
There are just some people that won't be happy until the Husseins of the world have enough weapons and power to intimidate the whole world. They want to allow the fire to get bigger instead of calling in the fire dept..
posted on March 11, 2003 09:24:49 AM new
Would be nice to destroy Iraq, as easily as some believe.Problem is it wont stop there,President Bush has said we will be at war for many years.For some reason, people believe this is a short term conflict.
Nothing could be farther from the truth,we have to get the rest of the axis of evil,Iran is next on the list and then N.Korea,then anyone who complains about those Countrys being attacked.Where is the bottom line?Our troops being envolved or deployed, is a cost of 1 Billion dollars a day,we dont have it.We also cannot afford the body bags from on ground conflicts.
Theres more at stake, then calling people names, because they want another out come.
This will be a conflict to wipe out the Arab Nation.Who the hell, are we to make that decision?
posted on March 11, 2003 09:43:31 AM new
My answer to statements like those made by junquemama is this.
President Bush told us, right after 9-11 this was not going to be a short process...that it would probably go on for years. Somehow some appeared to have turned a deaf ear to that message. 9-11 changed the way things were.
Look at the fear some have now about what's going on with NK. Do you really believe it's going to get better if more countries, with these sort of leaders, are allowed NWs? I don't.
Second if positive change for the people of Iraq can be shown, once Saddam is removed and Iraq is stablized, then the rest of the ME might just want that for themselves. See it as a positive thing. And for those leaders like the yo-yo in NK, we'll deal with them.
And as to the 'cost'. Yes, expensive. But WTC is estimated to have cost us $95 Billion dollars. How many of those financial 'hits' can we afford to take if leaders like NK and Iraq are allowed to become more powerful. We're going to be paying, one way or the other.
And 'look how much it's costing for our troops to be sitting off shore' each day. Do you people really believe Saddam would be cooperating AT ALL if those said troops hadn't been sent there? I sure don't. And as some have said...give him more time to work with the UN....and keep paying this cost of sitting off shore while he takes another 12 years to disarm? I don't think so.
posted on March 11, 2003 10:23:08 AM newWould be nice to destroy Iraq This will be a conflict to wipe out the Arab Nation
Where are these doomsday prophecies coming from !! They are totally baseless. We heard the same stuff when we went into Afghanistan and the same in the first Gulf war. "The streets will run with the blood of innocent civilians", "millions will die", all pure tripe. The only way those things will happen is if Hussein or Jung Il do the killing, and they have shown they will if we let them.
What gives "us the right ? Terrorists, depots, murderers, all courting weapons of mass destruction to use against the United States and it interests.
Who in their right mind would believe that doing nothing to oppose and dispose of people like Hussein and Jung Il is the right course to take ?
Do you really think that if we set back, twiddle our thumbs, these thugs will grow weaker and disappear ?
posted on March 11, 2003 10:43:10 AM new"And 'look how much it's costing for our troops to be sitting off shore' each day. Do you people really believe Saddam would be cooperating AT ALL if those said troops hadn't been sent there? I sure don't. And as some have said...give him more time to work with the UN....and keep paying this cost of sitting off shore while he takes another 12 years to disarm? I don't think so.'
The longer they sit there, the longer a lot of people have to live. Look at the cost from that perspective, LINDA.
Bush should have given that possibility a little thought. Does he have somebody in the administration who can think? A little knowledge of War Strategy 101 should prevent that kind of screw up.
The man considered the most feared and dangerous in the world is not capable of planning a battle. Our troops are on a boat with nowhere to go?
posted on March 11, 2003 10:51:25 AM new
9-11 isn't a bank balance that we can draw on every time we feel like invading a nation.
We seem to think that we're the first and only nation to have experience terrorism. 9-11!! Terrorism!! All bets are off! The rules have changed! The world has changed!
The world has not changed, only your perspective of it has.
posted on March 11, 2003 11:10:53 AM new "Second if positive change for the people of Iraq can be shown, once Saddam is removed and Iraq is stablized, then the rest of the ME might just want that for themselves. See it as a positive thing. And for those leaders like the yo-yo in NK, we'll deal with them."
In other words, either follow our example and obey our directives or we'll anihilate you. Is that your new America, Linda?
posted on March 11, 2003 11:42:31 AM new
We didnt use "NUKES" on Afghanistan,and the US has said it will.The nuke weapons have been re-classified as just weapons.This will not be a clean kill.The people in other Countrys around and down wind from Iraq,have every reason to be afraid.And the President didnt declare his axis of evil list in Afghanistan.
posted on March 11, 2003 12:00:06 PM new
Hmmm,there are 6 Billion people in the world.
There are 350 Million Americans.Lets do the math.....How many are on our side?
posted on March 11, 2003 01:13:33 PM new
LOL Boy, am I glad the democrats aren't in office right now. And IF whoever is chosen by the democratic party is anti-war we'll see another republican elected, I'd wager.
The longer they sit there, the longer a lot of people have to live. Look at the cost from that perspective, LINDA. Bet if we had a vote in the US Helen, leaving our troops there for years at the expense it's costing us, would be voted down. The only reason I brought that up was that was an argument junquemama or you used...the everyday cost of them being there. Don't worry, they won't be sitting there much longer.
donny - I think our country will make that decision on Nov. 2004. By their votes we'll see who agrees with not sitting around waiting to be attacked again vs. those who say 'eliminate the threat'. Until then.....it's Bush' call and he has much support.
posted on March 11, 2003 03:50:36 PM new
Linda_K,
Don't worry, regrdless of who is 'in office' the PNAC & other 'Hawks' are still there.
Does America have a patent on riteousness.
Colin is right, "It's preventive maintenance." maintaining dominance that is.
This is what maintains & increases resentment throughout the world, not US' successes.
Its good to see that some American voices are starting to see the truth.
You are losing the fight Colin, along hith the other 'die-hards' like Linda 12pole & reamond.
You are the 'extreme' right, you don't see any on here leaning more 'right' than you do you?
Colin Powell knows that you can easily win the battle in Iraq, but he knows that doesn't mean 'wining the war'.
But the neo-right wants war and drags the others in, heaven help you if you lose.
posted on March 11, 2003 04:05:10 PM newHmmm,there are 6 Billion people in the world. There are 350 Million Americans.Lets do the math.....How many are on our side?
Depends on what side your talking about, if your talking about the present situation, such as going after destructive dictators that keep terrorists and use his own people for gassing (yeah that 'gassing his own people' is getting old isn't it? ), like going into Iraq... then its probably about more than half of that 350 million Americans you quoted up there, unfortuntaly.
The UN is a joke
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 11, 2003 04:25:24 PM new
"going after destructive dictators that keep terrorists and use his own people for gassing" but only if it means that America can maintain it's dominant position.
Lets no lie.
Reamond doesn't mind as long as USA or Israel have "enough weapons and power to intimidate the whole world.", do you Reamond? just like the the bird of prey, the Hawk, as is the PNAC.
Sept 11 was 'collateral' for your arguments, like wind under your wings.
posted on March 11, 2003 04:36:41 PM new
yeah ok 'gassing his own people'
like I had said, thats getting pretty old huh, dominance, yeah right, OH and don't forget the OIL!! God what is it with you, so a little time goes by, and 9/11 is history. It wasn't that long ago! I'm sure you'd be frikking upset if this had happened in downtown Sydney, and your gov't would be also. And guess who else would most likely be right there? yeah, those damn Americans
reamond, so callous... not!
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 11, 2003 04:51:41 PM new
NearTheSea
US would only come to our aid, IF it furthered the PNAC agenda.
Thre's no philanthropy there, so don't pretend it is. Try and be more 'honest'.
posted on March 11, 2003 05:14:28 PM new
Naturally I'd "be frikking upset if this had happened in downtown Sydney"
Sure forget the oil, I wish you would forget it, and not just forget to mention it.
No I haven't forgeten 9/11, and you won't forget to use it as 'wind under your wings'.
Have you forgoten the American terorists that bombed the Mosque, or don't they count.
I am concerned for all humanity, but to the PNAC, it's all just collateral damage.
