posted on March 25, 2003 10:03:23 AM newILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS NOT A VICTIMLESS CRIME
Apologists for illegal immigration like to paint it as a victimless crime. But in fact, illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population--the poor, minorities, and children.
Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not cover the cost of services received by them. We cannot provide high quality education, health care, and retirement security for our own people if we continue to bring in endless numbers of poor, unskilled immigrants.
Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants willing to work at substandard wages and working conditions depresses the wages of American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees.
Illegal immigration also contributes to the dramatic population growth overwhelming communities across America--crowding school classrooms, consuming already limited affordable housing, and straining precious natural resources like water, energy, and forestland.
HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens pay taxes that benefit the economy.
TRUTH: Most illegal aliens do not receive a typical paycheck with tax deductions -- they are paid in cash and do not pay taxes. Even when they do pay taxes (only possible if they use fraudulent social security numbers or government assigned ID tax numbers), their meager income is not enough to pay for medical expenses and all the expenses for all the children they give birth to. You don't have to look at statistics -- just visit the maternal ward at the L.A. county hospital. There, illegal immigrant women are having thousands of children per year free of charge and can't afford them once they give birth, and that doesn't stop them from having even more children -- most learn how to work the system so that they receive cash assistance and food stamps.
A basic principle in economics is this: The more people that assimilate into the system the better -- if it creates a larger tax base. But here in California it hasn't. For example, the feds had to bail out the L.A. County hospital system several years ago and the county hospitals are now again headed for another crisis. The evidence shows that the net results are that illegal immigrants cost the taxpayer significantly more than they pay in taxes.
These are the numbers to call to report employers you suspect are hiring illegal immigrants. You may also report immigrants themselves if you believe they are in the country illegally, whether they are working or not.
You should have the address of each suspected violator at a minimum, and as much additional information as you can obtain. The more information you provide the INS the more likely it is they will take action and the faster it will be taken.
For areas NOT listed here, call 1-800-375-5283
(201) 645-2240 Newark , New Jersey
(205) 591-0920 Birmingham , Alabama
(207) 780-3440 Portland , Maine
(208) 334-1824 Boise , Idaho
(210) 967-7035 San Antonio , Southern Texas
(212) 264-5923 New York , Southern New York
(214) 905-5807 Dallas , Eastern Texas
(215) 656-7195 Philadelphia , Eastern Pennsylvania and Delaware
(216) 522-4774 Cleveland , Northern Ohio
(303) 371-5028 Denver , Colorado
(305) 762-3610 Miami , Southern Florida
(307) 772-2040 Cheyenne , Wyoming
(312) 353-4465 Chicago , Illinois
(313) 568-6042 Detroit , Michigan
(314) 539-2538 St. Louis , Missouri
(317) 226-6202 Indianapolis , Indiana
(319) 364-3280 Cedar Rapids , Iowa
(401) 528-5532 Providence , Rhode Island (also 528-5545)
(402) 697-9154 Omaha , Nebraska (extension 627)
(404) 730-2841 Atlanta , Georgia (extension 346)
(405) 231-4595 Oklahoma City , Oklahoma
(406) 449-3991 Helena , Montana
(407) 855-4418 Orlando , Eastern Florida
(410) 962-7449 Baltimore , Maryland
(412) 395-4463 Pittsburgh , Western Pennsylvania and West Virginia
(414) 297-1571 Milwaukee , Wisconsin
(501) 646-4722 Ft. Smith , Western Arkansas
(502) 582-6953 Louisville , Kentucky
(503) 326-7475 Portland , Oregon
(504) 589-4120 New Orleans , Louisiana
(513) 684-2412 Cincinnati , Southern Ohio
(518) 431-0325 Albany , Northern New York
(601) 965-5878 Jackson , Mississippi
(603) 625-5276 Manchester , New Hampshire
(612) 313-9040 Bloomington , Minnesota, North Dakota and South Dakota
(617) 565-3100 Boston , Massachusetts
(619) 557-6011 San Diego , Southern California
(702) 388-6414 Las Vegas , Nevada
(703) 578-4901 Washington , District of Columbia and Northern Virginia
(704) 672-6938 Charlotte , North Carolina
(757) 858-7502 Norfolk , Southern Virginia
(801) 265-0136 Salt Lake City , Utah
(802) 527-3191 St. Albans , Vermont
(803) 727-4422 Charleston , South Carolina
(813) 288-1226 Tampa Bay , Central Florida
(816) 891-8350 Kansas City , Kansas
(860) 240-3346 Hartford , Connecticut
(901) 544-0256 Memphis, Tennessee and Eastern Arkansas (extension 136)
(907) 474-1025 Fairbanks , Alaska
(915) 540-1736 El Paso, Western Texas and New Mexico
posted on March 25, 2003 11:11:21 AM new
FACT: Illegal immigrants do pay taxes. I'm going to address Florida, because I know its revenue structure very well. But the same issues apply in other states.
In Florida, there are four main components to each individual's tax burden. The first is the federal income tax. Immigrants make so little that, even if they were being declared, they would probably pay little or no income tax. Most of these people work below the federal poverty level. At that point, they would actually receive an EIC greater than the amount of payroll and income taxes that would have been deducted from their checks. In addition, those deductions would entitle them to make claims against Medicaid and Social Security, claims that illegal immigrants cannot make. (Other states
have income taxes, but few levy them against the poorest residents.)
Second is sales and use tax, which is assessed on every sale that is not exempt by law. Florida does not charge sales tax on food (ready-to-eat food and restaurant meals are taxed, as are non-food items like diapers and paper towels), medicine or rent, and certain services (haircuts, dry cleaning). But everything else is taxable: Clothes, books, dishes, cars, towels, shoes, appliances, light bulbs, etc. etc. [i]Everyone pays this tax unless they are registered with the state as a business and that registration only impacts sales made to buy goods for resale.
Third is property tax. The idea that you have to own property to pay property tax is one of the greatest fallacies of public thought. In fact, property-tax increases hit renters the hardest because their landlords will almost always increase rent payments to cover any increase in taxes, but rarely pass on any benefits from "rollbacks" of tax rates. In Florida, as in many states, shaves up to $50,000 off the taxable value for "homesteads" - owner-occupied houses - but offers no breaks for "income property" aka rental housing.
Fourth is gas and other excise taxes. These can take as much out of a poor person's paycheck as sales taxes do, or more.
This study points out the fact that Florida's tax structure is the second most regressive in the country meaning all poor people - including illegals - pay a larger percentage of their income in taxes than wealthier people do. Florida is an extreme case, but nationally, the average tax burden on the poorest families remains at least as high as the tax rate on the middle class, and far below that of the upper 20 percent.
Finally, this issue about "taking American jobs."
Ask any economist, and they'll tell you non-documented labor is a backbone of the U.S. economy. Americans simply will not work as hard, as cheaply or under such onerous conditions as aliens will. Hiring Americans to do the same jobs would probably more than double the cost of items we all take for granted ... especially food. That's assuming Americans will take those jobs. In many cases, they won't.
And that's where you're right about one thing. Illegal immigration does have victims: The Mexicans in the fern fields I drive by every day, who steep in hazardous chemicals for 12 hours with no restroom or water to wash their hands. The Chinese girls lured here to by promises of good jobs and then forced to work as prostitutes. The migrant laborers living in subhuman conditions, held in virtual slavery within a few miles of some of this nation's most sophisticated cities.
[ edited by msincognito on Mar 25, 2003 11:19 AM ]
posted on March 25, 2003 11:57:40 AM newEven when they do pay taxes (only possible if they use fraudulent social security numbers or government assigned ID tax numbers), their meager income is not enough to pay for medical expenses and all the expenses for all the children they give birth to.
I never posted that they didn't, but as you can see they do not pay enough to cover their costs.
MYTH: Since illegal alien farm workers come to the U.S. for "jobs Americans won't take," they would not present a problem if they were given temporary visas to allow them to work the fields and then return to Mexico (or other country).
TRUTH: Millions of illegal alien workers who could be doing all the farm work that "Americans won't do" are already in the U.S. Almost all illegals who come to work the fields do not make a career of low paying, hard working farm jobs. The belief that only pitiful third world laborers can be content in doing menial farm work is obviated when it is seen that almost all of these workers sooner or later "head for the city" for the better jobs.
MYTH: Americans won't do the work that illegals do.
TRUTH: Prior to 1965 when the disastrous Immigration Bill was passed, there was very little immigration. In fact, between 1925 and 1965, there was even a period of net emigration out of the United States. During this time, our grass was getting cut, our meat was being packed, our children were being watched and our houses were being cleaned. The idea that somehow we suddenly can't run a country without an unlimited supply of foreigners is absurd.
Those in favor of foreign labor are corporations who are addicted to cheap labor. They are the ones who are benefiting. But their benefit comes at the American tax payer's expense when you consider that the American tax payer is virtually subsidizing the labor costs of the greedy corporations by supplying the illegal foreign workers and their families with welfare, free education, free medical, WICs, housing assistance, etc. -- something the corporations won't do.
Americans won't allow themselves to be exploited like illegals do, but they WILL do the work that illegals do for fair compensation and benefits. If Americans did the work that illegals do at higher pay, would that benefit the consumer? You bet it would in the long run. But many Americans who do not care about America's future are consumers who favor the idea of exploiting illegal workers because it keeps commodity and service prices down in the short term.
Oh and which economist is that? The same liberal ones that would give away our country in a heart beat?
I prefer to see that in writing...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Mar 25, 2003 11:59 AM ]
posted on March 25, 2003 01:08:44 PM new
First of all, let me say that anyone who meets all the legal obligations of citizenship should be treated the same as those of us who were born here. We're a democracy, and our laws defining the rights of citizens must be upheld.
Those who enter this country illegally are not entitled to those rights. They have proven their disregard for US law by coming here in the first place. We as a nation and I as a taxpayer have no obligation to pay for their medical care, schooling of their children, or a myriad of other expenses related to their unlawful presence in this country.
The hiring of illegal labor creates a cruel distortion of the economy. People will continue to buy the things they need (food in particular) even if those things cost more to produce.
Illegal immigrants (or undocumented workers, as one poster referred to them)are a backbone of the American economy? They are the bane of the American economy.
It's illegal.
We should not tolerate it.
posted on March 25, 2003 03:39:53 PM new... "illegal immigrant women are having thousands of children per year free of charge and can't afford them once they give birth, and that doesn't stop them from having even more children -- most learn how to work the system so that they receive cash assistance and food stamps."
It's not just the Mexicans that go through this cycle. Usually it's due to lack of education and money and can happen in every country. Population control is something that has to be addressed in all countries though. I agree with you there.
posted on March 25, 2003 03:58:19 PM new
Twelve - Since you have such contempt for Mexican that sneak across the border... What is your opinion of the Chaldeans who are illegal crossing The same Tijuana border in the last leg that of a journey that started in Saddams Iraq where Chaldeans are the lessor known but heavily persecuted minority due to their religious differences (they follow the edicts of christianity, usually catholocism, as opposed to Isalm)?
You have state that all undocumented crossings are illegal but you have spewed your venum only towards the Latin population that crosses the border. Do you have equal distate for all or is it mainly latinos that you hate?
posted on March 25, 2003 04:19:42 PM new
Neon, my feelings are for ANYONE crossing illegally...
I have nothing but respect for those that immigrate here legally to start a new life and build something for themselves at the same time becoming citizens of this country.
I also understand that from time to time our country grants asylum for one reason or another...that still makes it LEGAL
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Mar 25, 2003 04:30 PM ]
posted on March 25, 2003 08:17:34 PM new
gravid, it's interesting that you mention expressways.
You know where the INS locates border checkpoints here? Forty miles north of the border, on Interstate 5 and Interstate 15, the two major north/south thoroughfares in the state! The traffic back-ups behind these "checkpoints" are almost always a mile long or more, where they interfere with the movement of people who have nothing to do with things on the other side of the border.
That's just great - making legitimate citizens waste their time and gas so the border traffic isn't impaired.
I've thought for years we should build walls on our borders, not to keep people in, but to keep intruders out.
Anyone who has a problem with that idea probably doesn't understand what the deadbolt on their door is for.
posted on March 25, 2003 09:26:04 PM new
Fern - how often do you go thru that check? I used to go thru it twice a day and I think the longest I ever waited was 15 minutes. It's a secondary stop going up the major freeway leading north from the border. If you ever take 8 east out of San Diego you will encounter another another one. I would love to know why think think border traffic is not impeded. I guess you never tune it to the local news to hear the border waits which average 20 minutes to one hour at each of the two crossings (Otay & San Ysidro). The crossing on the 5 also happens to be a truck weigh station which is standard on any major highway.
I assume that considering your disdain for the stop, you also resent that it is alsoo frequently used to bust drug trafficers and a high alert checkpoint during amber alerts?
BTW - your post also implies that it is always active. More times than not, and especially during high traffic times unless there is a security alert or tip, it is inactive.
posted on March 26, 2003 04:20:57 AM newIllegal Immigration is a crime
I agree and would very much like to see our government put more resources into stopping this problem.
I am tired of hearing those who support illegal immigration say those who are here illegally are filling the jobs Americans won't fill. Not always true, in my experience. There are many poor Americans who would like to have the chance to earn the money these illegals are making.
In the far Northwestern part of my state [AR], and spreading to other areas in this state as well, there is a large problem with illegal immigration. Nothing compared to the states that boarder with Mexico though.
posted on March 26, 2003 06:15:38 AM new
Thanks Linda, I read about that but didn't know that it was still going on...Tyson took a big hit in the papers over that.
Neon, when you were driving through the San Onfre check point twice a day... did you notice the fence on top of the guardrails between the North and South bound lanes?
They had to put that up because too many illegals were getting hit crossing the freeway to try and get around that checkpoint... Having been through there many times myself, I have no problem with the check point being inland and if it catches drug smugglers also in the process so much the better.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on March 26, 2003 08:27:47 AM new
Hi neon -
I go through San Onofre once a week and the Temecula station on 15 about once a month.
15 minutes sounds about right.
As to the border crossing traffic tie-ups, of course I hear about them on the radio. As I said before, I have no business on the other side of the border, and anyone who does makes that choice for themselves.
Hi twelvepole -
My point is, we need to control our borders - why not do so as efficiently as possible?
Most people don't realize that there are more FBI personnel assigned to San Diego than any other city in the country except for New York. That's because the border here is porous and a source of extreme security concerns. Where's the sense in placing a checkpoint 40 miles north of the border - did the government decide that those 40 miles are expendable in the event of a terrorist event? I live in those 40 miles, as do over 2 million other people.
Canada's borders are also porous.
Our borders need to be controlled.
posted on March 26, 2003 08:36:29 AM new
neon - Yeah, there's a truck scale there. It's for trucks, not passenger vehicles.
As for using the checkpoint for drug busts and amber alerts, I may be conservative, but I'm not so conservative that I want to see America criss-crossed by law enforcement checkpoints. That's some very spooky territory . . .
posted on March 26, 2003 10:01:48 AM new
::Where's the sense in placing a checkpoint 40 miles north of the border - did the government decide that those 40 miles are expendable in the event of a terrorist event? ::
Fern, that stop was there LONG before domestic terrorism became a serious issue. Did you notice that that stop is not manned by FBI but by the INS? It was built as a secondary immigration stop meant to stop imigrants that bypassed the traditional entrances into the country.
Out of curiosity, where would you prefer that it be moved to?
::As for using the checkpoint for drug busts and amber alerts, I may be conservative, but I'm not so conservative that I want to see America criss-crossed by law enforcement checkpoints.::
That was not the initial intention of the stops but has proved to be a secondary use. I think peole would be surprised to know how many drug stops are made because of phoned in tips. If the drivers get thru the border crossings, the SO stop operates as a back up. Same with the amber alerts although in those cases the announcement boards above the stop broadcast whatever info is available.
Oh and Twelve, yes, I have also seen the fences..... and the caution sign showing the family running across the highway.
posted on March 27, 2003 07:40:02 AM new
Hi neon - I am aware the checkpoint was there before the 9/11 attacks. I have lived in Oceanside and Carlsbad since 1956.
Of course I've noticed the INS runs it, and I certainly laud their efforts. I've also seen the disgusting anti-INS decals in vehicle windows with a cartoon character urinating on "la Migra", which for those who don't know, means "Immigration" or "INS". How would Americans feel if people started using the same character peeing on the American flag, or a firefighter or police officer? This utter contempt for and denigration of the INS is disgraceful; INS personnel are federal employees who deserve our respect and support.
As to where it should be, read my posts; near the border, as in just north of it. As you know, there's plenty of room on I-5 down there. I'm not as sure about the I-15, but it shouldn't matter; if you are going to control the border, you make room. For that matter, let Mexico deal with it - let the traffic back-up on that side of the border while we let one car at a time across. For those who choose to live in Mexico and work here, get used to the wait.
Control the border and you don't need cumbersome checkpoints 40 miles north of it, where it ties up traffic and wastes the time and gas of people who have nothing to do with things on the other side of the border. Our goals should be to treat inspections seriously and continue to improve technology to expedite the search process.
Again, the FBI has recognized how vulnerable the border near San Diego is. If we control the border, we don't need checkpoints 40 miles north of it.
posted on March 27, 2003 07:56:40 AM new
Those who do not live near a boarder town, might not be aware of what an overload our INS faces. They are way underfunded.
In the early 1990s I visited my aunt and uncle who at that time, lived in Brownsville, TX. What I saw totally changed my view and criticism of our INS. They drove me down to the US/Mexico boarder. They wanted me to take a look at the Rio Grande. To my surprise what I was watching was illegals walking across the Rio Grande into the US. No walls, fences, barriers of any kind there. All they had to do was walk through knee deep water of this so-called Rio Grande. I always thought that meant 'Grand River', but it provided absolutely NO barrier to keep them from crossing. There were no INS patrols, no personnel, etc. And the boarder crossing was just a mile or two away.
From that point on, I've believed we expect way too much from our under-funded, over-worked INS. If we're going to protect our nation, from ANYONE, from any country using Mexico to cross illegally, we're going to have to get a much better control of our boarders.
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 27, 2003 07:59 AM ]
posted on March 27, 2003 08:04:41 AM new
Yes, bones, people from this state are a wonderful group of people. We retired here 4 years ago this summer, CA transplants. We love it, but most of all we love the people here. We're in between Lake Norfork and Bull Shoal's lakes. We call it 'heaven'.
posted on March 27, 2003 08:07:08 AM new
Yes, the one time that I saw the Rio Grande I was disappointed...and I saw 'em wading it too.
When some of the troops get home, we need to put them on the border. They will certainly have experience in that function. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this, we are simply protecting our country. To hell with what Mexico thinks about it. If they want to come here it needs to be by controlled, legal immigration. Canada is a long border, but I'm sure we can figure out how to make it better too.
What nice comments about the people and I agree with you about the "heaven" part. That's my goal too...to retire up there. Catch me some trout! Have a great day.
posted on March 27, 2003 08:22:47 AM new
bones - Come on up, we'll have a fish fry. Our freezer is overstocked with trout . Fishing in both lakes and the river provide plenty of different types of great tasting fish.
posted on March 27, 2003 08:29:00 AM new
::As to where it should be, read my posts; near the border, as in just north of it. As you know, there's plenty of room on I-5 down there.::
SInce you state that you live in the Carlsbad/Oceanside area I gotta ask, how long has it been since you have been down here in San Diego proper... or dealt with the traffic? First of all, since immediately after entering the US at San Ysidro you make a choice between the 805 and the 5, which of those two highways do you feel it should be on? Which of them should you put two hour long waits on considering that you are now talking about stopping traffic in a major metrolpoitan area that is as often as not bumper to bumper anyway. Now you are no longer stopping people on a major north south thruway, you are stopping people on their way to the grocery store.
::For that matter, let Mexico deal with it - let the traffic back-up on that side of the border while we let one car at a time across.::
Have you ever crossed the border from Mexico? How did you think it was done. Depending on the time of day, and the back up there are between 10 and 25 lanes open at each of the crossings. At each lane is an INS agent that asks citizen ship, enters the plate numbers of your vehicle (which are automatically photographed when you enter) and if they feel like it, do a quick search of you car, if the find anything unusual, you are then sent to the secondary checkpoint where they all but disassemble you car . IOW They are going thru one by one now.
::Control the border and you don't need cumbersome checkpoints 40 miles north of it, where it ties up traffic and wastes the time and gas of people who have nothing to do with things on the other side of the border. ::
But wait, I thought you were concerned with our security, if 15 minutes once a week truly that much to sacrifice? That's how many times you say you go thru and the wait you say you have. Is that really so disturing to you? Additionally you are ignoring that the vast majority of aliens that cross illegally do not do so in a car at the border crossings. Most of the border has no fence. They cross thru the desert, they are picked up at predetermined check points or just walk and catch a bus out of San Diego (hence to INS presence at the bus station). They must then pass thru one of the two stops that you are objecting to.
posted on March 27, 2003 08:46:02 AM new
Hi neon -
Perhaps you missed my earlier post - I said we should build a wall around all of our borders. I don't need you to tell me how illegals sneak into this country - everyone knows how easy it is.
That means terrorists now it too - take away that easy access and you're halfway home.
I also advocate using troops to patrol our borders - have for years.
I go to San Diego regularly -in fact I'm headed there now. I didn't say it would be easy, but if we are going to admit that some illegals may get through forty miles to the north, we ARE conceding San Diego and everything south of San "Oh NO!Fray" as acceptable risks.
Stop 'em at the borders and you don't have to worry about the interior.
posted on March 27, 2003 08:47:28 AM new
You're welcome Now...send it to all on your email list who would also like to see illegal immigration stopped. For that matter....on that link you can choose all the forms of immigration you'd like to see stopped....not just those who come in illegally.
posted on March 27, 2003 09:07:31 AM new
::End H-1B (high tech) visas - Too many Americans are out of work, and we need the good paying jobs.::
Well that's just niave. One the main requirements for attaining a specialized Visa such for Tech, Sciences, or Entertainment is that you must prove that the candidate is more qualified for the job than an American Counterpart. This generally requires a file about two inches thick which includes any reseaarch papers, published reports, patten apps, educational background, letters of recomendation from recognized experts in the given field, etc. They are not randomly awarded to anyone that can turn on a computer. They also must be sponsored by the company hiring them.
::End political asylum immigration - Should people who can't fix their own country be given a free pass to our open and democratic society?::
Yes, unless you plan on sandblasting that lovely little message off the Staue of Liberty.
::End student visas - This is a primary loophole for illegal aliens and terrorists. Lower student demand for US colleges will lower the cost of education for American kids as universities will be forced to compete in a tighter market. ::
ROFL! Did they pull that logic out of their ear?
::Better green card management - Green cards should be issued for specific jobs, and for shorter periods (currently good for 10 years). ::
It would be nice if the person that wrote this had a clue what they are talking about, green cars and work Visas are two different matters. Although work permits can be issued work a period off up to 10 years, they rarely are. Additionally the must be renewed yearly requiring a letter of from the listed employer stating that the person is still employed.
Green cards are authorization of residency which includes allowing legal employment .
::End green card fraud - Send home green card holders who are no longer working in America. ::
Green card fraud is fake green cards, I think he means abuse of work visas.
[ edited by Twelvepole on Mar 25, 2003 11:59 AM ]
. Fishing in both lakes and the river provide plenty of different types of great tasting fish.