posted on June 6, 2003 07:58:27 AM new
The radical Islamic group Hamas won't recognize the new Palestinian Prime Minister's pledge to end terrorist attacks.
I'd be interested to hear what Round Table posters think should be done, both by the U.N. and the U.S., to deal with Hamas' refusal to cooperate.
Thanks.
posted on June 6, 2003 08:40:48 AM new
This goes directly to what many have always said about the arabs- They do not want peace with Israel, they want Israel destroyed.
Unless the arab leaders can effectively stop these terrorists and sway the greater arab public opinion towards peaceful coexistence, then sooner or later Israel will have to take the matter in a different direction, which would include a removal of all arabs from the present territories and Israel becomming a perminent "gated community" with "no man land" buffer zones.
posted on June 6, 2003 09:22:23 AM new
I personally would like to see the US support any action Israel determines [themselves/they alone] is necessary to resolve this issue. I don't like seeing the US put pressure on Israel to back down and continue putting up with/not retaliating to these terrorist attacks. They've [Hamas] made it clear they're not going to stop. What would the US be doing if this were happening to us? Under the current administration we'd be taking care of the problem right away. No reason, imo, to hold Israel back.
posted on June 6, 2003 09:38:40 AM new
I'd give the Bush peace plan a chance to work. If it doesn't, Bush should then unleash Israel so they can completely destroy Hamas and all of the other Palestinian militants who will never make peace with Israel.
posted on June 6, 2003 03:41:13 PM new
Hamas was really willing to at least listen to the Palestinian Prime Minister. The meeting was set and then Israeli Soldiers went in and MURDERED two "suspected" terrorists AFTER Sharron made promises.... The conclusion, Israel wants Hamas to disarm so they can kill palestinians at will.
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[ edited by mlecher on Jun 6, 2003 03:42 PM ]
[ edited by mlecher on Jun 6, 2003 04:22 PM ]
posted on June 7, 2003 12:27:12 PM new
mlecher - I wasn't aware of the incident you referred to where Israeli Soldiers murdered 2 suspected terrorists after Sharon made promises. Could you provide a source for that story?
Thanks.
"Two events that took place Thursday evening contributed to the change in position, Palestinian sources said, citing a late-night meeting of Hamas members and the shooting and killing of two Hamas members by Israeli soldiers in the West Bank."
"Israeli security sources said the men were planning a suicide bombing attack and refused to surrender to the soldiers, but Palestinian sources, citing eyewitness accounts, said the men did not resist."
"A senior Palestinian cabinet minister told CNN this Israeli military action was the reason that Hamas decided to stop the talks."
posted on June 8, 2003 07:06:51 AM new
Hi helen - thanks for the link, but it makes no reference to any murder of Palestinians, resisting or otherwise.
Maybe CNN's site is on the blink . . .
posted on June 8, 2003 04:19:30 PM new
President Bush did tell Isreal that they will need to participate with this, however seeing how the Hamas have now said they will not recognize any peace plan between the palestinian PM and Isreal, We should just inform them that any further terrorist acts will result in a "grave" action against any and all hamas....
posted on June 9, 2003 08:08:21 AM new
I still haven't seen anything to back up mlecher's reference to a news account reporting that Israeli Soldiers murdered innocent Palestinians, thereby souring Hamas on the Bush peace plan.
Is that just more Palestinian baloney to justify their methods?
JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Radical and militant groups met in Gaza on Saturday to devise a strategy for dealing with Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas and pledged to continue their armed uprising against Israel.
The groups included Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and Fatah.
They pledged to continue the intifada but ended the meeting with no decision on whether to halt cease-fire talks with Abbas.
They agreed that Abbas' position this week at the U.S.-Israeli-Palestinian peace summit in Jordan was "not acceptable" to Palestinians, a Hamas official told CNN.
The groups also emphasized the need for national unity and to continue dialogue among themselves, the official said.
Differing accounts of what happened in the four-and-a-half hour meeting are being reported.
A source with Islamic Jihad told CNN that the groups had agreed not to talk with Abbas until after a second meeting scheduled for Monday. Also, the group decided that no Palestinian faction will be allowed to meet with him until all the groups agree to hold talks with him.
However, a Hamas source said the meeting did not include any discussion of whether to hold talks with Abbas, who is calling for all the groups to halt attacks against Israelis.
Meanwhile, the Israeli government announced that, "in light of serious security alerts," it was closing the West Bank beginning at midnight Saturday [5 p.m. EDT].
The decision was made, Israeli sources said, because of a high number of alerts about possible terrorist attacks on Israelis.
The closure means that Palestinians will not typically be able to travel from the West Bank into Israel.
"In humanitarian cases, permission will be given from the liaison office," a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces said.
Israel had recently reopened the West Bank after a two-week closure in response to a series of attacks against Israeli civilians by militant Palestinian groups.
Hamas: Abbas giving up too much
Hamas announced Friday that it was backing out of cease-fire talks, saying Abbas was making too many concessions to Israel and the United States. It remains unclear whether other groups will follow the same course.
Aides to Abbas have said they expect dialogue with Hamas to continue. The Palestinian prime minister had predicted that he would reach a cease-fire agreement with all militant Palestinian groups within three weeks.
Abbas met with his Cabinet in the West Bank city of Ramallah on Saturday to brief them on the summit in Aqaba, Jordan, where Abbas, U.S. President George W. Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon showed support for the Middle East "road map" to peace. The plan sets out procedures that would lead to an independent Palestinian state existing in peace with Israel.
Hamas founder and spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin said the dialogue with Abbas was halted because of Abbas' "bad position" that ignored the rights of refugees to return and the status of Jerusalem.
"Abu Mazen gave the Jews what they did not deserve," Yassin said, using a popular name for Abbas.
Hamas also accused the Palestinian Authority of trying to dictate to the resistance group.
The authority said it had received no formal notification from Hamas that it was stopping talks and will not accept such a stance. The authority said it will continue to carry through with its pledge to clamp down on violence, no matter what its justification might be.
In reaction to the development, U.S. National Security Council spokesman Mike Anton said: "There's now a real prospect for peace. All parties agree that terrorism needs to stop and that all parties must fight terror. Those who pursue terror have made clear that they are enemies of peace."
Leaflet urges continued intifada
A two-page Hamas leaflet urged Palestinians not to accept the dictates of the summits in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, and Aqaba, especially calls for an end to the armed intifada against Israel.
The leaflet said the United States was trying to impose its will on the Palestinians, and called on the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world to oppose such dictates.
The rejection of talks is a significant challenge to Abbas and his authority. If he cannot persuade Hamas and other groups to give the road map a chance, Abbas might be forced to crack down on those groups, risking a possible civil war.
Abbas said at Aqaba that the Palestinians must renounce violence in their attempts to reach a peace settlement with Israel, and Sharon has said negotiations cannot resume so long as violence continues.
Hamas, the PFLP and Islamic Jihad are considered terrorist organizations by the U.S. State Department.
Hamas has claimed responsibility for dozens of suicide bombings and attacks in Israel and attacks on Jewish settlers in the Palestinian territories.
The PFLP is a Palestinian militant group that has committed numerous international terrorist attacks and has conducted attacks against Israeli or moderate Arab targets, according to the State Department. The PFLP has been a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) since the late 1960s, but its military wing has been outlawed.
Palestinian Islamic Jihad is a militant group dedicated to the creation of an Islamic Palestinian state and the destruction of Israel that has carried out military operations against Israeli soldiers and civilians.
Fatah is the mainstream faction and Palestinian nationalist movement of the PLO. It is dedicated to the formation of an independent Palestinian state. It is also linked to several splinter groups.
-- CNN correspondents Jerrold Kessel and Kelly Wallace, and producer Talal Abu Rahma, contributed to this report.
Your caustic tone in response to my politely worded request for input from Round Table posters is uncalled for.
I don't choke, pal.
Jerusalem - Deadly violence again shook Israel and the Palestinian territories late on Thursday, only a day after hopes for peace got a boost at a summit in Jordan.
The killing of two Israelis and two Palestinians came as Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat cast doubts on the United States-led summit from which he was excluded, saying Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had offered Palestinians nothing "on the ground".
The deaths, punctuated by a call from Egypt's foreign minister for an end to the armed Palestinian struggle, gave the international peace roadmap its first real test and was followed by Palestinian mortar fire and fighting in the Gaza Strip.
Arafat's criticism came as hardliners on both sides indicated they could fiercely oppose the pledges made at Wednesday's Aqaba summit by the right-wing Sharon and his moderate Palestinian counterpart and Arafat rival, Mahmud Abbas.
posted on June 9, 2003 01:24:46 PM new
Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon have it within their power to break the cycle that has destroyed previous peace talks. So far in the current round, it's looking promising - Abbas is apparently making it very clear that he won't be backing down, and Hamas leaders said today that they would reconsider their particpation in peace talks.
Abbas is in a tough spot. If President Bush had to deal with a group like Hamas, he could just order their arrest and prosecution. If Abbas does that, his fledgling government will likely be overthrown.
If he manages to bring this one to fruition, President Bush deserves a lot of credit.
posted on June 9, 2003 04:59:13 PM new
What I'm looking for is the link mlecher referred to in his post.
Thanks for the new link, helen.
The alleged "ambush" against "some" terrorist group (two groups claim it was their people who were killed)might be interesting if it wasn't in an obscure online source (Independent Online) which has the following disclaimer at the bottom of its article:
"Independent Online is a wholly owned subsidiary of Independent News & Media. Reliance on the information this site contains is at your own risk"
I don't believe I've read that one on any credible news agency's site.
posted on June 9, 2003 05:43:38 PM new
I'm not having any luck...Maybe Mlecher has a better link.
If you go to google headlines and sort by date, you may find what you are looking for. There were several news sources reporting the same story.
http://news.google.com/
posted on June 10, 2003 08:57:18 AM new
another attack.....
In this image made from television a car is struck by missiles fired from Israeli helicopter gunships Tuesday June 10, 2003, in Gaza City. An Israeli missile strike injured a Hamas leader, Abdel Aziz Rantisi, in the right leg and killed two bystanders Tuesday in Gaza City, doctors said. (AP Photo/APTN)
Bush 'Deeply Troubled' by Israeli Strike
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush scolded Israel on Tuesday for a helicopter attack on a senior Hamas leader that killed a bystander and a bodyguard, warning that such a strike "does not contribute to the security of Israel."
The strike came less than a week after Bush launched the "road map" toward Middle East peace he helped craft at a summit with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas.
"The president is deeply troubled by the strike of helicopter gunships that reportedly killed at least two persons and wounded 20 others," White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said. "The president is concerned that this strike will undermine efforts by Palestinian authorities to bring an end to terrorist attacks, and it does not contribute to the security of Israel."
.............After the attack, Hamas threatened revenge "that will be like an earthquake."
"We will continue with our holy war and resistance until every last criminal Zionist is evicted from this land," Rantisi told the Arab TV satellite station Al-Jazeera from his hospital bed.
Abbas accused Israel of trying to destroy the "road map" plan to get out of its commitments.
posted on June 10, 2003 09:02:55 AM new
I read that article today too and find it troubling.
Israel needs to explain what this particular attack was about, and their explanation better be coherent . . .
Hamas refuses to talk to new Palestinian PM
Abbas made too many concessions to Israelis and will come to a dialogue with cuffed hands, says militant group leader
GAZA CITY - The Islamic militant group Hamas said yesterday that it would not hold talks with the new Palestinian Prime Minister on halting attacks, in a fresh blow to the United States-led peace plan for the Middle East.
And on Thursday, Israeli forces shot and killed two Palestinians in the West Bank, in another sign that the 32 months of violence which Washington had hoped to end would continue.
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Hamas had decided not to engage in a dialogue with Palestinian Premier Mahmoud Abbas, said group leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi, even though it was only a day earlier when Hamas officials announced they were ready to listen to his proposals.
Mr Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, has been trying to persuade militant groups to end shooting and bombing attacks, and was to have held a new round of talks with the leaders of Hamas and other militias this weekend.
Mr Rantisi suggested that the Prime Minister made too many concessions to the Israelis in his speech at a Middle East summit held earlier this week in Jordan under the auspices of US President George W. Bush.
At the summit, also attended by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Mr Abbas called for an end to the 'armed intifada', or uprising, against Israel.
'Abu Mazen closed the door to dialogue by himself,' Mr Rantisi said in halting English.
'He committed himself in front of Bush and Sharon to what Palestinians refused, so there is no way now in front of any Palestinian organisation to open dialogue with Abu Mazen, because he will come to a dialogue with cuffed hands,' he added.
Under the US-backed peace plan, the so-called 'road map' to Palestinian statehood by 2005, Palestinians are to rein in militias that have killed hundreds of Israelis in months of fighting.
Mr Abbas, however, has a lot on his hands.
In a village near the West Bank city of Tulkarm, Israeli soldiers on Thursday entered a home to arrest three armed Palestinians who ignored calls to surrender, opened fire and killed two people, military sources said.
Israeli security sources said the Palestinians were Hamas group members who were planning a suicide attack against Israel. -- AP, Reuters
---------------------------------------
Israel SAID........Not the reporter. Of course you realize reporters are shot on sight in Palestinian territory.
Bumper Sticker seen on Air Force One
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[ edited by mlecher on Jun 10, 2003 05:47 PM ]
posted on June 10, 2003 07:20:21 PM new
A second Israeli attack today, with tanks and helicopters kills a 16 year old girl and two 19 year old men.
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Israeli helicopters fired a barrage of missiles into a crowded intersection Tuesday in a bloody assassination attempt on a senior Hamas leader that gravely wounded the fragile Mideast peace process.
Two Palestinians were killed and 35 were wounded in the airstrike, including a 7-year-old girl who was hospitalized in critical condition. Later Tuesday, Israeli tanks and helicopters fired again, this time on a Gaza refugee camp, killing two 19-year-old men and a 16-year-old girl. Thirty other Palestinians were injured.
posted on June 10, 2003 07:28:27 PM new
It's probably not a good idea to hang around too close to a Hamas leader. To the Israelis, I say nice shot. Keep picking off those terrorist leaders until they surrender or they're all gone.
posted on June 11, 2003 07:06:35 AM new
The Israelis will do as they please because the Zionist (not recognised by MS Spell check) Lobby is well represented in the US powerhouse, even as Bush claims to be 'Deeply Troubled'.
WASHINGTON (AP) President Bush scolded Israel
ROFLMAO
posted on June 11, 2003 07:54:51 AM new
mlecher - I don't think that's the source you were basing the following comments on
"Hamas was really willing to at least listen to the Palestinian Prime Minister. The meeting was set and then Israeli Soldiers went in and MURDERED two "suspected" terrorists AFTER Sharron made promises.... The conclusion, Israel wants Hamas to disarm so they can kill palestinians at will."
The source you have provided;
1) makes no reference to Sharon promises.
2) makes no reference to "murder."
3) makes no conclusion that "Israel wants Hamas to disarm so they can kill Palestinians at will."
As for yesterday's helicopter attacks, it seems to me the first one was out of line, and Sharon is catching heat for it, both from within Israel and from the Bush administration. Sharon's move needlessly undermined the Palestinian PM's credibility with his own people.
The second helicopter strike, in response to rockets being fired at Israel, seems to be a reasonable defensive move.
