posted on June 18, 2003 06:46:50 AM new
Shrinking Family Unit, Symptom of a Decaying Society???
Is there little surprise that we in the west, or those that represent us, have little respect for the wellbeing of, or even the very lives of other nation’s people; when we aren’t even prepared to give our own offspring the stability and support that comes with an extended family unit.
Sex Sin & Sadism, Sell like hot cakes, and I blame the so-called ‘conservatives’ or on the ‘right’.
Free market, take what you can, exploit all your resources.
NO FREE RIDES.
Devoid of communal spirit, devoid of compassion.
Not all who identify as being on the ‘right’, but this trait runs strong through their lines.
Where did I recently read, it explains their arrogance well.
I may slightly misquote but in essence-
“I give the poor charity and they call me a saint, I ask why they are poor and they call me a communist”
Not enough compassion to want to raise the poor from their squalor, they have their place you see.
Don’t let their kids have good ‘state paid’ education, keep em where they are, make the user pay; let them get a job,
or join the unemployed stand-by labour market, or join the armed forces perhaps.
What has income to do with a happy home they ask?
No.. nothing, nothing at all they think.
And so we breed a new generation of disgruntled little people, struggling all the way.
But in our great nations they have a political voice too.
They can promote their own political candidates by paying say… $2000 to go to a fund raising dinner, and encourage another say…10 of their friends, and they can all have say.. a hot dog or a hamburger.
Very charitable spirit!!!
I think the message they’re trying to give us is that one needs to screw everyone but themselves.
Screw me, screw you, screw your country, screw the world.
What way is that to bring up a
Next time you vote, don't be so mean, don't vote conservative, vote the right way.
posted on June 18, 2003 11:55:03 AM new
austbounty, I read our post a few times and am not quite sure what your point is. Can you explain what you mean in layman's terms for me?
(sp)
[ edited by kraftdinner on Jun 18, 2003 11:56 AM ]
posted on June 18, 2003 01:24:05 PM newNext time you vote, don't be so mean, don't vote conservative, vote the right way.
Don't you mean 'vote the leftway'?
It's funny (well, maybe not) that everyone I know that has money - money in the bank, money to invest, money to play with - are on the right. They give to charity only because it can reduce the amount of taxes they pay (with Bush's help they may not have to pay any at all). They own business where the workers are paid only enough to keep them from climbing any higher than the middle of the ladder. They belong to country clubs, buy fancy new cars every year and their children go to the best of schools. They walk around with blinders on because they don't want to see the poverty that surrounds their finely manicured lawns. They moan and groan that their taxes are too high while flying off to Europe for their summer vacation. They complain about the homeless, but offer no solution. They gripe about paying into the welfare system, but clam up when asked to pay their workers a decent wage. They send their children to fancy private schools so that they won't have to see what is really going on in the world. Another generation blinded.
The poor see no way out and neither do their children. They see no hands reaching out to help them up. They see only feet stomping them down. They see the finely manicured lawns, they watch as children get onto private school buses dressed in clothes they could never dream of having. To them summer vacation is their parents allowing them to camp out in the backyard and hoping they aren't biten by the rats or beaten up by the gangs. They see their fathers run out on their mothers. They see their mother struggle everyday to make enough money to put food on the table. They see no way out.
Until the poor can be seen as human beings each with their own hopes and dreams and until society cares enough to help them up and shows them how to reach their dreams, things won't change. The welfare system has done nothing for the poor, but keep them down because it's that same system that for years allowed the poor to lose sight of their dreams.
JMO
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Jun 18, 2003 01:25 PM ]
posted on June 18, 2003 05:42:02 PM new
In my little circle of friends, I don't know too many right wingers with money but I do know a few Bush supporters who don't have the proverbial "pot". If you ask them what George is doing for them, they don't have a clue.
posted on June 18, 2003 07:04:46 PM newIt's funny (well, maybe not) that everyone I know that has money - money in the bank, money to invest, money to play with - are on the right.
your characterization of those with money may not be very typical...around here, it's the yahoos who spend their paychecks in the bar and are always one trailer payment away from the street who have all the Bush bumperstickers...wonder how many beers they'll be able to buy with their tax cut? I guess I would be characterized by some as being "on the left", at least I have been in this forum. I have money to play with, money invested, and
literally land as far as you can see. The right has not helped me earn any of it, and has tried numerous times to take it away.
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
posted on June 18, 2003 08:09:23 PM new ...wonder how many beers they'll be able to buy with their tax cut?
If you ask them what George is doing for them, they don't have a clue.
Until the poor can be seen as human beings each with their own hopes and dreams and until society cares enough to help them up and shows them how to reach their dreams, things won't change. The welfare system has done nothing for the poor, but keep them down because it's that same system that for years allowed the poor to lose sight of their dreams.
The leftists are screwing up this country. Americans used to be proud rugged individualists but we are now becoming envious, whiney, dependent wimps. Ask not what you can do for your country but what your country can do for you!
Profe51, I find it very hard to believe that "the right" has tried numerous times to take away your ranch.
posted on June 18, 2003 08:57:03 PM newProfe51, I find it very hard to believe that "the right" has tried numerous times to take away your ranch.
I am a sheep rancher. I raise a few cattle for beef for my family and a few neighbors, but that's all. The history of sheep ranching in the southwest is one continuous story of persecution by the welfare ranching cattle industry, which has always sought to push us out.They have succeeded since this land became US property by severely restricting where sheep are allowed to graze on public land. The only truly successful sheep ranchers are those who do not depend on public lands, like me. The exact opposite is true for cattle operations. That industry, which in many minds is the personification of your "proud, rugged individualists", in actuality depends almost entirely upon the use of public lands to raise it's stock. Every single american taxpayer supports the cattle industry by allowing the use of publicly owned lands for the pursuit of private business, at very little cost, about 20 bucks per head per year. The next time you hear about a 100,000 acre cattle ranch, find out exactly how much of that land is DEEDED, and how much of it is public land. That's why I call them welfare ranches.In the west, you will find that that industry is supported by right wing representatives, and always has been. You won't find the right speaking out against ranchers, oh no. But in our case, it has very much sought to restrict and control us. I am not envious, I am not whiny, I am dependent on NO man OR government, and I must have a short left leg, because I often find myself leaning that way
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
posted on June 18, 2003 11:33:57 PM new
“Ask not what you can do for your country but what your country can do for you!”
Sounds great at first, but surely a nation only exists because of it’s people, it was created after all to SERVE the inhabitant’s interests.
It exists to make life easier.
“proud rugged individualists” Why just glamorise it; go do it, live in a rugged state, who in their right mind would want to when comforts are at hand.
Rugged individuals may have built our nations but they aren’t the ones, by and large, who own it.
The state is meant to be there for US, not visa versa.
The ‘right’ somehow misunderstands priorities and ‘natural order’.
Productivity before people, Profits before health, education and happiness.
Unfortunately in both our 2-party political systems we have dominance of the ‘right’ and the ‘more-right’.
If you were to call America’s ‘Liberals’ and Australia’s ‘Labour’ parties ‘left’ then what can we call the communist party.
I’m afraid we have the best democracy money can, and does buy.
It’s all for sale, the farm, the home, and loyalty.
Sell whatever the market will bear.
That’s how the market works, screw you for as long as you can bear it, and give you as little as you can bear.
And they let us have as little education, health, wealth and happiness as we can bear.
Not that it’s a conspiracy, it’s just how a free market works.
I caught a glimpse of the Jerry springer show today, a big bald headed, bearded and tattooed cross dresser with a giant lollypop; boy was his girlfriend “surprised”. I wonder if he was related to any great cross-dressing men that moulded our world, like J E Hoover.
We should invest in a brighter future, invest in our children, not in ‘productivity gains’.
Unless you choose to believe like 1”
$=God
posted on June 19, 2003 03:34:56 AM new
My father remembers back in the day when your loyalty to your employer meant something. You could count on retiring from you job of 35 years. Now, you are lucky if the place is open for 35 years. Older workers who have spent their lifetime slaving away for an employer are kicked to the curb before retirement in order to hire a younger less expensive model. In some instances, the older worker loses some or all of his retirement benefits.
Here's just one example: I've got 25+ years secretarial experience. I type 80 wpm, know just about every software out there, can fix a computer, can design a website and am a CPS (Certified Professional Secretary). I've worked in banking, manufacturing and newspaper publishing. I can both read and prepare a financial statement, do payroll, keep a company's books, etc. Two years ago, I was laid off from a small publishing company. The person that replaced me was a man doing the same thing I was for less money than I was getting. Never mind that he wasn't as fast at it (typesetting) nor as creative in the layout area. He was just "cheaper". Not to mention he was a "family man" who needed to job to support his family as my boss told me (I know, blatant discrimination, but that's a whole other story). No problem, I thought. With my experience and skills, getting another job in the $40+ range would be no problem. WRONG! Maybe if this had happen a year or two earlier, I would have stood a chance.
Here's what I found out. Why hire a 40+ year old for $40,000 when you can hire a 20+ year old for $25,000? I became labeled as over-qualified. Why have quality at a high price when you can have mediocre at a low price? The company and all it's upper management must be able to retain their huge bonuses even at the expense of the workers. So you kick the drones out of the hive so their is more room for the queen. Younger is not only cheaper, it is more productive. You can make more for less. All endorsed by the right wing sector of the government.
So, when people wonder why I'm working at a job that pays me $8 an hour I tell them exactly why. The skilled worker had a place in this country 4 years ago. The skilled worker has no place in this country now. They are too expensive. Profits, profits, profits no matter the cost in human lives.
My father is a democrat. My grandfather was a republican. My grandfather had money, my father did not. My grandfather had a nice white collar job, my father blue collar. My grandfather retired with a huge pension. . .my father struggles on Social Security. He was one of the older men laid off just before retirement.
Productivity before people, Profits before health, education and happiness.
Austy, you are right. That is the trend. Sad, sad, sad.
Before I end my Libra-like rambling, I have tried to talk about my views to friends I have that are Republican. They will not listen. They stop me in my tracks like they are afraid I may say something that makes sense. They do, however, expect me to quietly sit and listen to them. It seems to me they are the ones who are afraid. Afraid of the truth.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Jun 19, 2003 03:35 AM ]
posted on June 19, 2003 05:56:21 AM new
I understand your plight there Cheryl, however what you and others are ranting about is the lack of a "social" programs that makes your life easier, just because...
I think that is what makes more people afraid more than anything else is the idea of us becoming so socialistic or communistic that it is not worth the effort to any longer be productive.
You know that your job, health care, etc... are provided for; where is the incentive to work harder and to strive for more.
USSR proved that this model doesn't work.
There are 50 states in this Union, somewhere there is a job paying what you were making, the point is you probably would not move to go get it.
Yes, I have moved to other states for better paying jobs and will do so again if need be.
You have skills, I know I have seen in the paper and Monster.com, here in the NW for around that amount of money.
You have a full time job? I take it they do offer health and dental insurance?
posted on June 19, 2003 06:48:32 AM new
About this nation's "welfare" system...
I read a book called "Tyranny of Kindness" about the welfare system in New York City. The present welfare system will never end. The right-winger make way to much FREE money from it.
+ It cost $50,000 dollars a year to have a child in the Foster care system. The number one reason for children to be in the foster care system: their mothers make less than $20,000 dollars a year and can't support them. Solution: Subsidize the mothers\'s income to $20,000 and save the taxpayer literally billions per year. BUT: There are many corporation set up to service the foster care system who give millions to Republican campaigns to maintain the status quo.
+ Before the welfare checks reach the recipient, the money is filtered through many organizations and programs, each taking their little piece. If the National Government printed the checks and delivered them directly to the recipients, even if fraud tripled the cost would still be be half of what it is right now. BUT: many of these filtering organizations are run by "conservative" corporate elite.
There is one organization who receives millions of dollars from Uncle Sam, and their only purpose it to refer people to privately funded non-profit organization.
But even then, social welfare cost each American an average of $.72 per day....corporate welfare cost each American about $1.50 each day, more than twice as much. But like good corporate sheep, who are we told to vilify?
posted on June 19, 2003 07:31:19 AM new
Why do you fear having health care available for everyone, Twelvepole? The fact that over 45 Million people are without access to afordable health care is frightening to me. And as more and more people become unemployed, under the present econonic policy of bush, the number of jobless and uninsured will grow.
The fact that this country doesn't have national health care is disgraceful.
posted on June 19, 2003 07:50:41 AM new
didn't you 'hear' her 12, she tries to work and does, and charges what the market will bear.
8 BUCKS an Hour.
And you are assuming she’s getting health care thrown in; not all do.
I recently heard that 80% of ‘employed’ Australians earn under $28K/year. (Remembering that not all can get full time work). ‘Most’ Australians have a ‘net worth’ of under $7K.
Your advice is work harder and move to another state.
Why don't you explain to us 12. How is it that your country can be reaping the greatest harvest from the global economy and yet your people, the real people, the ones most like the "proud rugged individuals" glamorised by ebayauctionguy are some of the lowest paid work force in the west, with the poorest safety nets; ie. social security, health care, and education.
You may also want to give a simillar explanation to the other chat by msincognito
“Health care vs. corporate welfare” http://www.vendio.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=181557
Meanwhile the 'right', or I think 'neo-cons' conjures a more accurate image, demand more of everything, more big cars etc, etc, and cheaper too.
WAKE UP 12!!!
If it just keeps getting 'cheaper', sooner or later someone has to be getting less, or pushed aside for someone that is prepared to take less.
I heard tonight that next year USA will spend more on military than the rest of the world combined.
Unfortunately we here in Australia are heading the same way, unlike 10 years ago, our kids now also have to pay $10’s of thousands to get a tertiary education too.
Just great if you have a kid or 2 or 3 or 4 and you earn as much as a mortal and your child has to come up with 10 years wages (not savings) to buy their own house. (remember 12 and other neo-cons that about 1/3 kids are from a single parent household).
Sure, the boss man can scream 'loss of profits' or even 'negative growth' too, but having your income drop 15K from 265-250K (and even 250K is a piss in the ocean for some)
is hardly going to diminish your quality of life as a drop from 40K-25K(as for most of us).
Apparently 98% of people think they have an above average intelligence.
Talk about kidding ourselves.
Similarly we all like to think of ourselves as middle class.
And 12 even thinks that the politicians on the ‘right’ represent him, earning what you earn 12 they only think of you what you’ve been accused of here before; trailer trash.
Why don’t you be a bit more smart, like the prof, even though he seems to have a little more than most, he understands who the right are working for, and that’s only the ones with lot, lots, lots, more.
And ebayauctionguy thinks he’s represented by the right,… the average sale on ebay is about $30.00.
posted on June 19, 2003 10:17:03 AM new
FYI, twelve, I do not have health insurance or dental. Why should I have to move leaving my daughter, grandchild, son, brothers (one of whom is terminally ill - I think I'd like to stick around) and parents in order to make a decent living? I'm almost 47 years old and have no intention of leaving everything I have known for 47 years when the fact is I should not have to.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 19, 2003 11:21:34 AM new
More "silly" welfare programs....
The Government will subsidize certian agencies and wealthy families(in the way a tax breaks) to train and hire welfare mothers to act as Nannies the to children of these wealthy families. The welfare mother has to put her own children in daycare while she works, which the Government pays for. If the Government were to take all the monies from this program, cut it in half and give directly to the welfare mother, she could easier survive and TAKE CARE OF HER OWN CHILDREN! And save the taxpayer millions....
I think it was Mario Cuomo's son or nephew who was given millions in Government money to construct TEMPORARY housing for the homeless.... Now I don't know about you, but the main problem with the homeless is that they do not have PERMANENT Homes! Temporary homes mean nothing! Except profit for the construction firm.....
posted on June 19, 2003 12:07:31 PM new
You have discovered the "Grey Ceiling" an aging workforce is of little or no value to corporate America. To have to relocate geographically in order to become fully employed is totally impractical from a logistical standpoint, secondly many of the listings which are referred to in this thread do not exist for various reasons. Additionally there are ample candidates locally with an inside track as well as rising unemployment in virtually every state. The belief that somehow access to medicine for all will stymie productivity is laughable.
Many companies will hire two part timers rather than one full time worker in order to avoid paying benefits. This includes many government agencies federal, state and local.
posted on June 19, 2003 01:00:23 PM new
As most companies offer health and dental for full time employees, part time employees are part time for a reason, they either are not suitable for full time work or are foolish enough to accept it, if people would not accept part time work without benefits, sooner or later those employers would be forced to offer full time with benefits.
Yes people need to wake up, it is because we have become a nation of credit and easy money, that good work ethic has flown out the window, if the job was worth more than $8/hr it would pay more.
But in these transitory times, if you are not willing to follow the money, then enjoy what you have... even Boeing left Seattle after 86 years.
I expected your reply to be just that Cheryl and I do understand, I have a brother that is making just what you are making and complains everyday there isn't good paying work in West Virginia anymore, but he is unwilling to move.
People make choices and then expect handouts because they don't like the choice they made.
I wonder how many on unemployment would be willing to pay 10% for continued health care?
posted on June 19, 2003 03:11:16 PM newtwelvepole, I'm callin' you out.
Name me one state that has shown significant job growth in the "liveable wage" category. My information is that the few states that have shown any job growth - like my own - have only seen growth in the low-paying service sector, and when you get right down to it, the growth has been in large part due to the fact that many people who used to support themselves at one job now work two or three.
I'll even make it easy for you. Federal poverty guidelines say that a family of four making less than $18,400 is officially poor. Children whose parents make less than 150 percent of the federal poverty level are eligible for subsidized health insurance - that's $ 27,600 a year. Split the difference - $23,000 a year. Find me one state that's shown job growth (measured against population) in jobs paying more than $23,000 annually, and specify which sectors those jobs are in.(If you go to Hawaii or Alaska, the FPLs are higher there so add a few thousand bucks.)
Just one.
And I won't even make you subtract out the cost of an interstate move, which is about $5,000 and would put our little family right back under the poverty line.
I'll even give you a head start. Most states report a crying need for nurses and teachers. You can assume, if your brain can stretch to cover it, that all these ne'er-do-wells lazing about with their $8-an-hour jobs have valid nursing AND teaching certificates. Right, Cheryl?
And by the way, your little screed on "go where the jobs are" kind of flies in the face of all that conservative Republican "family values" dogma, doesn't it? Because anyone who's even brushed up against a sociology book understands that one of the biggest contributors to family breakdown is the degradation of the communities around them, caused in large part by an increasingly mobile society.
So come on, babe. Show me whatcha got.
------------------- We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
posted on June 19, 2003 05:16:30 PM new
Only worth $8 an hour. Twelve, you must be joking. Here's what I do:
Insurance billing, payroll, payroll taxes, all typing, forms creations, newletter creations, website design and maintenance, accounts payable, accounts receivable and supervise the reception staff. INO - I'm the office manager. I am FULL TIME. In fact, I'm full time and work extra hours at home doing what couldn't be done in an 8 hour day. The company cannot afford to offer benefits. Who do I work for? I work for a non-profit that offers alternative health services to the poorest residents of our city. That's who I work for. A company that good old Uncle Sam could give a #*!@ about because we don't have to pay him any taxes.
Don't even tell me that job is not worth more than $8 an hour. It's all that they can afford to pay me. You see, since 911 people aren't giving to charities very much anymore. The economy is in the dumpster and we are the ones suffering for it. Don't dare say I look for a handout.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 19, 2003 05:46:26 PM new
12pol1 “they either are not suitable for full time work or are foolish enough to accept it, if people would not accept part time work without benefits, sooner or later those employers would be forced to offer full time with benefits.
Yes people need to wake up, it is because we have become a nation of credit and easy money, that good work ethic has flown out the window, if the job was worth more than $8/hr it would pay more. “
12, you’ve got no idea, or you are a liar.
If you ‘need’ to put food on the table, and I’ve got the capacity to give it to you, then I can screw you and you will grin and bear it.
Necessity never made a good bargain.
Don't you understand the rules of suply and demand.
posted on June 19, 2003 06:06:13 PM new
The Republicans have traditionally fought any attempt to raise the minimum wage as well as to require employers to provide any medical benefits.
The Republican health care system: Don't get sick!!!
posted on June 19, 2003 06:06:41 PM new
quote
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Labor/SweatshopBlues.html
We said to them, "What label do you make?" They reached into their pockets and took out a label Liz Claiborne. The jacket cost $198 and the women in El Salvador were paid 84 cents to sew it. What's significant is that for the last two years the Liz Claiborne company has co-chaired the White House Task Force to eliminate sweatshop abuses. It says a lot about how far we have to move from the theory of ending sweatshops to the reality.
Sounds to me like deception all the way.
It should be called the 'shaft force' not 'task force'.
posted on June 19, 2003 06:14:47 PM new
"People make choices and then expect handouts because they don't like the choice they made."
The only handouts I see in the US is to Corporate America. Never mind direct hand outs; I'm talking about the accounting system and the ability of companies to write of items rather than pay fair tax.
If corporate America paid tax then there'd be no problem paying for basic medical coverage for everyone.
All of these monies belong to the PEOPLE. The same groups get their same cronies into power and then they spend the PEOPLE's monies in ways that would scare any CEO! It certainly scare anyone who has to live on a paycheck. And they get away with this and will continue too.
posted on June 19, 2003 06:18:27 PM new
USA "38.7 million people- including 8.5 million children - were without health insurance in the year 2000"
" Real wages in the US are now 12% less than they were in 1973."
"The US and the Russian Federation incarcerate more people than anywhere else in the world - by a huge margin."
"In February 2000, the US prison population reached 2 million. This represents 25% of the entire prison population of the world - from just 5% of the world's population."
"The US spends more on its armed forces than the rest of the world put together."
"Half the working population has no pension provision."
"The 'gini co-efficient' contrasts the income of the richest 10% of the population with the poorest 10%. Zero represents perfect equality and 100 perfect inequality. In the late 1990s the US was the 71st most unequal out of 112 countries - the same as Turkmenistan."
posted on June 19, 2003 08:37:18 PM new
msincognito, I will concede that if you are unskilled labor without any formal education, your job outlook is exactly as it should be, poor.
As you yourself pointed out,there are at least 2 areas that are needed and also included in the mix are programmers and web developers, some IT specialties also.
But as you pointed out, joe schmuck the rag man who got all the way to the 6th grade will not be seeing any "job growth" nor should they... $5.15 is good enough.
I am not hard line "republican" and do not subscribe to the "sitting" on my a$$ complaing about my low wage job because I won't move syndrome....
There are programs available for worker retraining and the sad truth is most people do not take advantage of them... why?
Cheryl, non-profit is all you had to say... but then again, you have chosen to work there.
posted on June 19, 2003 09:12:05 PM new
Could you name one of these programs and the field they are currently retraining workers to enter? I am unaware of them as are 100's of thousands of currently unemployed people. I did see mention of a career oportunity on the screen of my local cinema, they seem to need ushers.
posted on June 19, 2003 09:33:15 PM new
12
I think we all here acknowledge that it is understandable and that we are willing to accept a ‘poorer’ outlook for those less skilled workers, but we are not willing to accept what you condone;.. a ‘poor’ outlook.
And so the children of the poor are largely doomed to stay within their ‘cast’, because not only don’t they have equality of condition, they don’ even have equality of opportunity.
Bush, the son, would be rich and so would his children, regardless of how dumb or lazy they may be.
Let someone on $8/hour send their child overseas to avoid military duty.
You’d say, let them swim and eat fish on the way.
The rich get richer and the poor get the picture.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Brecher/Race%20to%20Bottom_GVGP.html
“Three hundred companies now own an estimated one-quarter of the productive assets of the world. Of the top 100 economies in the world, 47 are corporations each with more wealth than 130 countries. Their interests are global as The New York Times noted in 1989, "Many American companies are shedding the banner of national identity and proclaiming themselves to be global enterprises whose fortunes are no longer so dependent on the economy of the United States.''
"In rich and poor countries alike, economic insecurity, disruption, and poverty have undermined human relationships, traditional lifeways, and social values. A California lawyer recently wrote,"
" I am a criminal defense lawyer, not an economist, but I wish to reinject into the discussion what strikes me as self-evident The lack of decent-paying work for our unskilled and semi-skilled workforce is a major cause of United States crime and social decay. The bulk of my clientele falls into the chronically unemployed and the newly laid off or chronically under-employed. The gainfully employed mostly do not commit crimes. The remaining, and growing, portion, who are not securely employed or decently paid need solid factory jobs to work their way out of poverty, and those jobs don't exist anymore. Why? Because they've been moved...Now we cannot employ all our people at a living wage, and as a result, our nation is suffering a catastrophic decline in living standards with an unraveling of our social fabric. "
posted on June 20, 2003 01:21:59 AM new
Cheryl - I feel your pain even if Twelve does not get it. When I got out of high school I got a job as a typesetter for $8.00 an hour. I moved to LA, I increased my proficiency, became a photoshop expert, became Art Director as well as handling Marketing, Operations and for a few years bookkeeping for a division of a company that I originally used to stop in to help out friends with as they were starting up. After almost 10 years of 7 days a week, up to 18 hours a day I burned out (the head honcho of our parent company said that he was shocked that I had lasted as long as I had and gave me a trememndously generous severence deal). When I left, I was making about 50k a year in salary and bonuses.
After a year of rediscovering the world beyond my office I decided it was time to go back to work. I cannot find a job in this town. One interviewer I was talking to told me that by noon on the first day their ad ran they had 75 resumes faxed to them. I have been told by at least 20 different interviewers that they feel that I am
a) over qualified for their job
b) going to eventually resent settling for their offered pay (usually under $10 an hour) and move on
or my personal fav
c) find my design responsibilities boring and unchallenging compared to former works and want to eventually move on.
It's much easier to hire a recent grad that has no experience and no idea what good design work is worth.
And Twelve - I'm not whining - I'm stating the facts. I'm not seeking a hand out, or even a hand up - I am putting my skills and experiences to work for myself.
I am using my marketing and design skills to build an ecommerce venture that I will run from Mexico starting next year where I also hope to work with Mexican web developers to assist Mexican manufacturers and artisans become more accessible to english speaking markets. (Wish me luck - more manufacturing means less need for emmigration)
And I could not let this one pass....
:::There are programs available for worker retraining and the sad truth is most people do not take advantage of them... why? :::
Because they are most not made aware of eligibility and because even whe they are they are, the programs are improperly administrated. I have a friend that was a systems devoloper for IBM & Gateway with a Masters in computer science. He was injured at work picking up a computer and was placed on disability and put into a retraining program... he is now attending one of these one year IT programs and being paid to do it. It's sad, it's pathetic and its a complete joke. He has still has yet to hear why he is considered too disabled to be a devoloper but not to be an IT tech.
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
[ edited by neonmania on Jun 20, 2003 01:29 AM ]
I took the job because by the time that offer came around I was out of work for 6 months. So are you saying that instead of taking that job I should have been looking for handouts??? I send out resumes all the time In the last couple of years the lob loss rate for this area has been high:
In the latest figures for the fourth quarter of 2002, Cuyahoga County lost -15,879 jobs, a job growth rate of -2.0%. The eight county Cleveland-Akron-Lorain metropolitan area lost -12,742 jobs, a growth rate of -0.9%. The one year job losses have built upon jobs lost last year. During the last two years, Cuyahoga County has lost -49,806 jobs, a -6.2% job growth rate. The fact that Cuyahoga County has lost more than 6% of its employment is a local economic emergency.
The rates of job loss in the Cleveland metro area in the 2000-2002 recession have been faster than the same rates of job loss that were experienced in the 1990's recession. Thus, it is clear that the current 2000-2002 recession is deeper than the 1990's recession was.
Cuyahoga County has 14.7% of all jobs located in the state of Ohio. But, during the last two years, 24.6% of the net job losses in Ohio have been in Cuyahoga County.
Cuyahoga County remains the only Ohio county where job growth has been below the Ohio statewide average during 46 of the last 49 quarters. During favorable business cycle conditions, Cuyahoga County's job growth has been below the Ohio average. During recessions, Cuyahoga County's job losses exceed the Ohio average. The situation is worse in manufacturing employment, where Cuyahoga County is the only Ohio county whose manufacturing job growth has been continuously below the Ohio average for all consecutive quarters during the last eleven years. These continually sub-par job growth rates, particularly in blue collar industries, remain the primary engine causing growth of low income populations in Cleveland and many of its inner ring suburbs.
Comparing March 1994 with April 2003, Cuyahoga County welfare payments to low income families have been cut by -$330 million annually. Cuyahoga County has ceased releasing the data by census tract, terminating a decades old service. It is therefore no longer possible to calculatethe size and distribution of this massive cut in transfer payments to poor families by neighborhood. The annual rate of families cut from cash welfare benefits rose to an all-time record figure of 27.8% per year in April 2001. During all 29 months following the October 2000 enforcement of Ohio’s three year cash welfare time limits and during all 28 months of the current economic recession, Cuyahoga County’s cash welfare case loads have been cut. Local cash welfare case loads fell during a recession while the county was losing jobs, in sharp contrast towel fare case load increases during all previous recessions. Despite the ongoing recession, Cuyahoga County’s OWF/TANF cash welfare case load fell by –5.2% in the most recent April 2003 figures, even though Cuyahoga County continues to lose tens of thousands of jobs.
Yes, we're swimming in jobs here as you can see. Clinton had his faults but at least we were working.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
