posted on August 21, 2003 12:00:14 PM new
I can think of a million better ways to use this wasted money. Like feeding & housing & training for the homeless.
Another great reason to close the souther borders.
States pay $7.4 billion to educate illegals
By Stephen Dinan THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Educating illegal immigrants in public schools costs states at least $7.4 billion annually, according to a study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform that argues American children are being hurt by the drain on resources. "Illegal immigration is no free lunch," said Dan Stein, executive director of FAIR. "It's about shifting burdens — lowering labor costs at a tremendous cost not only to American taxpayers but to American kids." California spends an estimated $2.2 billion annually — more than any other state — to educate illegal immigrant children. Texas and New York rank second and third, respectively. The report's authors used the Urban Institute's estimate of 1.1 million illegal immigrant schoolchildren in the United States, then broke that down by state using the Census Bureau's estimate for illegal immigrants per state. The costs are based on per-pupil averages and don't account for extra costs of providing English as a second language classes, nor do they account for disparities of per-pupil costs in different counties in a state. Mr. Stein said the money used to pay for illegal immigrants' education should be used to meet the needs of children here legally, and the report detailed how individual states could use the money to offset current budget shortfalls. Melissa Lazarin, education policy analyst at the National Council of La Raza, an advocacy group for Hispanic-Americans, said FAIR's estimate for illegal immigrant children is "really a very small slice" of the overall cost of education, which the Department of Education figures is more than $700 billion annually. "We just don't feel this is something we should be quibbling over," she said. "We actually feel it behooves us to invest in the education of these children because we feel we have a much better return on this small investment. "These are students that grew up in this country, that consider themselves American, that speak English, that have the persistence to go on to college, that want to give back to their communities," she said. Jim Ferg-Cadima, legislative staff lawyer at the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, said the issue of immigrants' rights to education has been settled. "Regardless of what the dollar figure is, these children have a right to an education," he said. "The issue was litigated all the way to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court decided on the issue." In the 1982 decision, Plyler v. Doe, the court said the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment means that if schools offer public education to any student they must offer it to all students. The court also ruled that students have no control over their immigration status and can't be punished for their parents' decisions to move illegally. Mr. Stein said he believes the 5-4 decision was wrong, but beyond that it is being misinterpreted by many schools to justify shielding families of illegal immigrant students from detection. The solution, he said, is for the federal government to enforce immigration laws. Several states have sued the federal government to try to force it to pay for costs associated with illegal aliens, including education and incarceration. They argued that the federal government is responsible for failed border enforcement and immigration policies. In 1999, the president of the school board in Anaheim, Calif., proposed sending a bill to Mexico for illegal immigrants who attended schools in the jurisdiction. Hispanic activists and other opponents called the move political grandstanding and accused the school board president of racism. They filed dozens of lawsuits against him for violation of children's civil rights and misuse of tax dollars. The board did not pursue the policy after being told it violated international conventions.
posted on August 21, 2003 12:39:53 PM new WHY DID YOU LEAVE OUT ARIZONA WE HAVE 40% OF THE b@#$%^&S COMIMG ACROSS OUR BOARDERS. WHERE IS SENIOUR BUSH WHEN THIS HAPPENS WITH HIS HEAD UP HIS A$$ LIKE ALWAYS.
posted on August 21, 2003 01:11:31 PM new
Since most of these kids will undoubtedly eventually become citizens, do you really want them to be uneducated citizens?
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on August 21, 2003 02:13:39 PM new
I'm sure if you are not Native American somebody was saying - there goes the neighborhood when YOUR people came over. Of course that's different because they weren't one of those shiftless lazy races you hate.
posted on August 21, 2003 02:32:33 PM new
The reality is that if people are not educated there are less opportunities open to them and they have the potential to be a drain on society. Education is an investment in our future. We have wasted more dollars on our failed foreign policies in the past six months than the 7.4B you seem concerned with.
posted on August 21, 2003 02:35:24 PM new
Funny how you point out how money was spent to educate people, mostly poor, but mention nothing about how your President has spent $500 billion dollars (yes, half a trillion) of your hard earned cash - this year alone!
posted on August 21, 2003 04:06:02 PM new
People outside the country seem to have a better understanding of what's happening in the U.S. than American citizens.
posted on August 21, 2003 08:53:01 PM newThere is none so blind as they who will not see
Why Liberals Should Oppose Illegal Immigration
Friday, August 22, 2003 By Matt Hayes
Liberals have historically been the voice of those who have no voice, fighting for the rights of those on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder.
They have campaigned relentlessly against cuts in AFDC , Medicaid and Medicare . Even now, the expansion of Medicare to include prescription drugs has become a crusade of liberal advocacy groups. To hear Robert Reich , former President Clinton's first Secretary of Labor, one would think that the primary duty of a president is to create jobs, something that a substantial number of economists believe is not even possible under normal economic conditions.
But there is nothing noble in importing hundreds of thousands of unskilled people to do our dirty work. So it is ironic - hypocritical, even - that many of the same liberal advocacy groups that worked so hard to insure safe and fair working conditions for Americans should also work so hard to pave the way for illegal immigrants.
While the government of Spain recently ordered a massive mobilization of law enforcement to remove the estimated 500,000 illegal immigrants in that country, the U.S., without blinking an eye, absorbs between 300,000 and 500,000 new illegal immigrants every year, almost every one of them an unskilled laborer crossing our southern border to earn money.
If people wonder why they see groups of idle men standing on street corners during warm months, it is because they were all unsuccessful in competing for the same $2.00 an hour lawn-mowing job.
Arguing that illegal immigration should be tolerated because those coming here seek only to work is to argue that we should foster a massive, exploitative, underground economy whose workers spend every day teetering on the brink of destitution. Those who believe that the U.S. should welcome all illegal workers, no matter how unskilled or unneeded, also seem to think that an immigration amnesty or guest worker program is a silver bullet that will automatically cure all the other problems that piggyback on uncontrolled immigration.
There is currently talk on Capitol Hill about a guest worker program that would allow its participants to earn residency. Some members of Congress have made concrete proposals. Senator John Cornyn, R-Texas, has proposed that participants in a guest worker program be given individual investment accounts, funded by payroll taxes, over which the worker would have complete control (a power that even American citizens do not have). Under some proposals, participants in guest worker programs would have their health care, and that of their family, paid for by the federal government.
A guest worker program has been tried before, in the agricultural industry. Best known as the Bracero program, its effects were so detrimental to wages in the agricultural industry that Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., commented that it was thought of as a national shame. The effects of foreign workers on other areas of the agricultural industry have been well documented. Indeed, guest workers are already displacing American workers and lowering their wages and working conditions, as has been amply shown by their effects on agriculture and the information technology industry. In agriculture, migrant workers have displaced native workers in the melon industry, the peach industry, the cucumber industry, and the apple industry, among others. Many of the workers displaced were union members.
In the IT field, multiple studies have found that guest workers are paid between 15 to 33 percent less than native workers. This fact has spread like wildfire among the management of IT companies, and now each month hundreds of American IT workers are laid off and forced to train their foreign replacement or lose their severance package.
Even unions, which have historically resisted illegal immigration and foreign workers, are getting in on the act and openly courting the membership of people who have no legal immigration status in this country. "At this stage, it's difficult to see what unions can really do for these people except take their dues," said Vernon M. Briggs Jr., of the School of Industrial and Labor Relations at Cornell University .
In what is probably a first in our history, members of the right and left have a common interest in encouraging illegal immigration and imported labor. For many Republicans, illegal immigrants and imported labor are sources of cheap labor. For many Democrats, they are a cheap source of votes (from members of the extended family with citizenship or through voter fraud). The person paying the price is the American worker.
Matt Hayes began practicing immigration law shortly after graduating from Pace University School of Law in 1994, representing new immigrants in civil and criminal matters. He teaches at Berkeley College, and is author of The New Immigration Law and Practice, to be published in October.
"The Democratic Party is the party of this popular corruption. The heart of the Democratic Party and its activist core is made up of government unions, government-dependent professions (teachers, social workers, civil servants); special interest and special benefits groups (abortion rights, is a good example) that feed off the government trough; and ethnic constituencies, African Americans being the most prominent, who are disproportionately invested in government jobs and in programs that government provides. The Democratic Party credo is 'Take as much of the people's money as politically feasible, and use that money to buy as many of the people's votes as possible'. Tax cuts are a threat to this Democratic agenda. Consequently, Democrats loathe and despise them." --Semi-reformed Leftist David Horowitz
posted on August 21, 2003 09:27:06 PM new
Even now, the expansion of Medicare to include prescription drugs has become a crusade of liberal advocacy groups.
A program which serves nothing save elderly retired US Citizens.
posted on August 21, 2003 09:47:21 PM newA program which serves nothing save elderly retired US Citizens. And in a detrimental way, imo.
Should this prescription benefit pass, it's my opinion that the majority of senior citizens are NOT going to benefit from it down the [probably short] road.
My republican friend has been writing op-ed piecs for our little town's newspaper. He's researched and found that 76% of retired seniors already have drug prescription benefits through the insurance their past employers currently provide.
And his position is that **IF** this bill should pass, it most likely will result in employers cancelling the retiree's drug payment plan and suggesting the retiree just use the Medicare benefit instead. So his position is this will be a negative result at a cost of millions of tax dollars.
In his op-ed pieces, he's suggesting a lesser amount of tax dollars be provided ONLY to those who have no drug coverage.
posted on August 21, 2003 10:02:52 PM new
I agree TXPROUD....
and here's an article today that I read about how many immigrants are now working as firefighters, having graduated from farming.
Read the joke at the end of the article. Maybe English speaking firefighters are the one's who's lives may be in danger because they can't speak Spanish.
The article doesn't say whether these people are here legally or not. But as with the farm workers, day workers, etc. I'd place my bet that most aren't here legally.
posted on August 21, 2003 10:14:49 PM newSince most of these kids will undoubtedly eventually become citizens, do you really want them to be uneducated citizens?
Undoubtedly? Not if they're deported like they're suppose to be under our laws.
You liberals want to change the laws, have open boarders? Why don't you just work towards that rather than continuing to support the breaking/ignoring of our laws?
What I really want is for all illegals to be sent back to where they came from. No money of any kind should be spent on any illegal. Our own children need those funds going towards their education. Our own poor need those funds going towards health care. Our own un-employeed need the jobs these illegals are taking.
And neither the democrats nor the republicans seem to have the guts to do anything about this financial drain on our economy.
posted on August 21, 2003 10:34:24 PM new
Completely untrue. They can apply for supplemental insurance in the private sector, it is both costly and subject to underwriting with regard to any preexisting conditions. As to health programs through employers most corporations have been denying benefits to retired workers by whatever means including but not limited to bankruptcy. This includes promises made and not kept to US Military Veterans by our government.
As to the narrow viewpoint of your republican friend I can only say that is what is wrong with this country. The narrow republican viewpoint which you share.
posted on August 21, 2003 10:42:30 PM new
Dave - Who is THEY??
If the 76% of retirees should lose their drug benefits, then yes they too can use these medicare funds to help them. But the argument is why sent up all this money, and these amounts are only the beginning of what we're going to be asked to pay, when it's only needed by 24% who really need it. His position is this will enable employeers to stop paying for their retirees drug benefits.
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying. I'm saying these benefits aren't necessary for those who already have this benefit....through their previous employers. Why add them to the whole drug package when so many less are really the one's in need?
posted on August 22, 2003 04:39:59 AM new
Thanks for the article Linda, now that is something that is scarey and I took the time to inform his superiors about his little sarcastic remark... hopefully Mr. Torres will soon be looking for a different kind of work.
Non-english speaking people in this country are becoming real problems and are not very good workers if they cannot speak or write english.
Fortunately the last company I worked for gave a written test in ENGLISH, and those that could not pass it, were not hired.
I do not hire non fluent english speakers... it is MUST for my employees... but then again I don't hire non-college grads either, for what it is worth...
I also agree they should be deported as soon as possible, so there should be no need for educating them. Those here legally and becoming citizens learn english.
posted on August 22, 2003 09:02:37 AM new
Yes, thanks Linda. Several years ago I was in the Nome, Alaska airport waiting for a flight back to Texas. While sitting there I kept hearing mexican spoken, it wasn't Spanish (there is a difference). The longer I sat there the more I noticed it. I finally asked a cop that was walking the area about it. He told me that Year round they had Mexicans comming up there to work (at the time some 200 of them) and none of them that he knew of spoke English and all work as custodians / janitors.
posted on August 22, 2003 09:34:33 AM new
::You liberals want to change the laws, have open boarders? Why don't you just work towards that rather than continuing to support the breaking/ignoring of our laws? ::
Actually Linda - I am taking a different tact. I am moving to Mexico with the intention of starting a new business that will, at least for some people, relieve the need to leave to survive. But that is just me. I do not actually believe that the borders will ever be completely opened and I think that the best way to combat illegal immigration is to elimiate the need for it. The funy thing is that if Twelve had his druthers, this would not happen either.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on August 22, 2003 11:41:36 AM new
Fenix, if the neo-con had their druthers, they would have Mexico declared part of the axis of evil, attack it and take their oil and destroy the infrastructure. Then Haliburton would be "appointed" to do the rebuilding.
posted on August 22, 2003 01:29:08 PM new
Twelve - no - it's not my crap that will be sent back here. It will the products of manufacturers and individual artisans who will be web enabled and working together with small retailers and such in the US and hopefully other countries to strengthen each others economies. Stick with your made in the US products Twelve, I don't think you are culturally open enough to appreciate the products anyway.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on August 22, 2003 01:35:38 PM new
BTW - I would like for you to introduce me to the us makers of alebrijes, talevera tiles, and other indiginous art forms that will be put out of work. Or are you also into trying to protect the US from outside cultural influences as well?
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
WHY DID YOU LEAVE OUT ARIZONA WE HAVE 40% OF THE b@#$%^&S COMIMG ACROSS OUR BOARDERS. WHERE IS SENIOUR BUSH WHEN THIS HAPPENS WITH HIS HEAD UP HIS A$$ LIKE ALWAYS.
