reamond
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posted on November 4, 2003 08:32:43 AM new
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35422
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Linda_K
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posted on November 4, 2003 08:50:46 AM new
"The unit is very anxious to have this 'SOMETHING' identified,"
well....I'd guess so. If the tanks are vulnerable in this way, we sure need to find out why asap.
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reamond
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posted on November 4, 2003 09:18:01 AM new
One would think that the people who manufacture our tanks would readily know what could penetrate them.
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Linda_K
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posted on November 4, 2003 09:24:17 AM new
I choose to cut them a little slack since it was described as a 'mystery weapon'. And if our commanders in the field don't recognize it....that says a lot to me. Think they would be familiar with most type of weapons, wouldn't you?
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BEAR1949
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posted on November 4, 2003 10:30:31 AM new
The current U.S. main battle tank, the M1A2 Abrams tank is protected by armor similar to the British Chobham (composite). This armor is a mix of layers of ceramic material, DU and steel, the ceramic material is designed to shatter when hit, thus dissipating the striking projectile's energy.
High speed photography has shown that the ceramic material shatters as the HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) round penetrates, blowing up to a huge volume which then expands back out the hole and pushes the metal jet of the HEAT with it. (The HEAT round is a "shaped charge" designed to focus the explosive energy to create a very high velocity jet of metal. The jet moves at supersonic speeds of its solid material and therefore erodes exclusively in the contact area of jet and armor material. The jet material is formed by a cone of metal lining, usually copper.)
These tiles are sized a few cm to as much as a foot across and when hit they shatter. Test of impacts on previously shattered ceramic steel sandwich show a 95% resistance to AP (Armor Piercing) impacts while higher Velocity impacts could result in 90% resistance compared to unshattered ceramic targets.
Most of the tanks that have previously been disabled have had their tracks separated. (Most venerable and least protected place on a tank).
One or 2 have been disabled in the urban environment (downtown Baghdad), when struck in the engine compartment by a RPG (rocket propelled grenade). Additional armor has since been added to protect this area.
For any projectile to have penetrated the armor in the sides of the turret (the most protected area of the tank) is very curious, especially since the report indicates only minor crew injuries.
Normally any projectile that is capable of penetrating the turret would create a firestorm of damage in which the crew would be critically injured.
Very Curious & interesting....
"Another plague upon the land, as devastating as the locusts God loosed on the Egyptians, is "Political Correctness.'" --Charlton Heston
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Linda_K
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posted on November 4, 2003 10:53:43 AM new
thanks for that info, bear.
I hope we find out soon.
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austbounty
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posted on November 4, 2003 01:36:03 PM new
Advanced weapon from nation pushed to stone age??
Friendly Fire?
or twilight zone?
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miscreant
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posted on November 4, 2003 02:37:44 PM new
This may be an incendiary depleted uranium bullet. The US does have them in their arsenal but with all of the depleted uranium in the world today it is likely some country or wealthy group could develope them.
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BEAR1949
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posted on November 4, 2003 03:01:24 PM new
Not likely a conventional U.S. or Soviet weapon. The most current anti tank weapon containing DU is a Sabot round, refered to as the "Silver Bullet". The DU long rod penetrator travels @ 5200 fps & will penetrate 30 inches of armor.
The armor on the turret of the M1A2 tanks is the equilivant of 23 to 26 inches against weapons like the DU penetrator and 42 to 51 inches against HEAT type rounds.
Had this particular tanks been hit by one of these rounds, it would have killed all in the tank.
"Another plague upon the land, as devastating as the locusts God loosed on the Egyptians, is "Political Correctness.'" --Charlton Heston
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miscreant
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posted on November 4, 2003 03:24:52 PM new
The fact the article mentions that there was a yellow melted metal can point to uranium. They should run a radiation test on the stuff if they haven't already. I'm surprised this made it out to the media.
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BEAR1949
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posted on November 4, 2003 03:55:53 PM new
Again not necessarily, it can also be indicative of a shaped charge weapon with a copper core.
"Another plague upon the land, as devastating as the locusts God loosed on the Egyptians, is "Political Correctness.'" --Charlton Heston
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miscreant
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posted on November 4, 2003 04:42:22 PM new
But wouldn't a shaped charge make a cone shaped pit on the inside and it did make a 2 inch deep hole on the opposite wall inside. Two people in the tank were hit by shrapnel and it did go through a seat back. The fact the firefighting equipment went off means there was a lot of heat. I am not familar with a copper core shaped charge so it could very well be a possibilty.
The particle beam weapon mentioned is highly unlikely.
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BEAR1949
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posted on November 4, 2003 05:23:40 PM new
A shaped charge weapon, penetrates the armor by basically converting the released energy into a plasma charge (creatimg a very high velocity jet of liquid metal). This jet of plasma (extreamly high temperature) richocets inside the contained area destroying all it touches. Crew members hit by this plasma charge would exhibit severe burns in addition to shrapnel wounds.
Thus whatever imbeded itself 2 inches in the inside of the of the turret indicated to me, it was a solid material, not a plasma jet.
"Another plague upon the land, as devastating as the locusts God loosed on the Egyptians, is "Political Correctness.'" --Charlton Heston
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miscreant
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posted on November 4, 2003 06:05:56 PM new
I have just read about those shaped charged weapons. They are large and do a lot of damage. If it is a shaped charge, it is not one of ours.
Someone out there may be trying to make a smaller shaped-charged weapon one or two men can carry or combining it with a uranium projectile. It was small and would take a some knowledge and know how to make something penetrate that armor. That diagram you posted would give a good basis for some to start designing the weapons and those diagrams have been availible a long time.
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BEAR1949
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posted on November 4, 2003 06:27:23 PM new
The complete article on this incident
The area penetrated by this weapon was the most venerable of the tank. This is the are between the skirt & the turret, also known as the armpit joint, the area above the tracks and beneath the deck on which the turret sits.
A spokesman for General Dynamics Land Systems, which manufactures the Abrams, said company engineers agree some type of RPG probably caused the damage. After checking with them, the spokesman delivered the manufacturer's verdict: The tank was hit by "a 'golden' RPG" - an extremely lucky shot.
http://www.rense.com/general44/what.htm
"Another plague upon the land, as devastating as the locusts God loosed on the Egyptians, is "Political Correctness.'" --Charlton Heston
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gravid
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posted on November 4, 2003 06:35:52 PM new
There is always something new coming along.
It seesaws back and forth between who has the lead from month to month.
Pour enough flammable liquid over a tank and burn it and it will stop running. That still works as Marshall Molotov demonstrated many years ago.
Manage to toss a pebble down the gun tube and the next time they use it will be a real surprise too. Tossing a handful at a time improves the odds.
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miscreant
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posted on November 4, 2003 09:01:21 PM new
After reading that article it seems like it is still unknown what weapon did the damage. For the sake of the tank soldiers I hope it was a lucky shot and not a test.
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