kraftdinner
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posted on December 9, 2003 09:24:04 PM new
I got into a heated discussion with a friend of a friend. That person claims to be an athiest but celebrates Christmas. I pointed out the hypocracy, reminding him the celebration represents Christ's birthday and got yelled at.
What do you think?
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bunnicula
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posted on December 9, 2003 10:18:43 PM new
Japan, not a Christian nation, has embraced Christmas. Not as a religious observance, but rather as a fun, enjoyable time to decorate the house and surroundings, eat lots of food, and to exchange gifts. Many people, including athiests, around the world do the same.
No more hypocritical than Christianity itself stealing observances of earlier religions it derides and making them its own. Including Christmas....
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
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stusi
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posted on December 10, 2003 04:28:10 AM new
kraft- when you say that they "celebrate" Christmas, how do you mean? They are obviously not "practicing" Christianity by going to mass or displaying a manger at their home. If you mean they are giving gifts, is that a true "celebration" of the religious aspect, or are they just being generous? If I, as a Jewish person, give gifts to my Christian friends at this time of year am I "celebrating" Christmas? Am I a hypocrite? The commercialization of Christmas over the years begs the question: when did it first become a gift-giving event?
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Twelvepole
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posted on December 10, 2003 04:50:54 AM new
Christmas is no longer a "true" christian holiday...
Leftists liberals have seen to that....
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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Linda_K
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posted on December 10, 2003 05:01:52 AM new
My D-I-L who is Japanese has shared they don't celebrate Christmas, in Japan, as we do. It's more an event, party time, for young unmarried couples. Going out to dinner and partying is how they usually celebrate the day. They have no tree or decorations and don't exchange gifts. She says it's celebrated like our New Years Eve here is.
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I don't know KD, if they're being hyprocritical or not. They're celebrating "Santa", and the 'Hallmark' time of year by exchanging gifts, decorating the house and tree. That's why, imo, so many are actively working to take the 'Christ' out of Christmas and celebrate 'Winter Holidays'.
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gravid
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posted on December 10, 2003 05:26:20 AM new
When the Puritans came to New England one of their laws was that nobody could celebrate Christmas as they considered it a profane holiday. That was true of a lot of professed Christians at that time.
I used to work with an old Dutchman that was a Lutheran and he felt Christmas was wrong but celebrated because his second wife insisted. But he drew the line at Valentines day saying - "Now that's a pagan holiday!"
Most educated people know all the customs of yule log - tree - mistletoe - etc are pagan as is the date itself. But they simply don't care so certainly the religeous aspect of the holiday must be secondary to them if they can tolerate all that baggage.
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Helenjw
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posted on December 10, 2003 06:12:39 AM new
Few people celebrate Christmas as much as retailers and sellers of alcoholic beverages.
Actually, Christmas is celebrated all over the world, regardless of religious affiliation.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Dec 10, 2003 06:13 AM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on December 10, 2003 06:20:07 AM new
Christmas is celebrated all over the world, regardless of religious affiliation. But many countries have other names for it...not Christmas.
This year Egypt has declared Christmas a National Holiday....for their Christian citizens. Ironic that it has been said they did so to be more like the US in being accepting of religious differences, at a time when some in our country are working to remove this same religious freedom of expression for all public places.
France is considering elimating the Christmas holiday...making their workers work that day ....the government wants them to produce more. LOL
Edited to add: France is considering this because they need the money to help pay for their socialized health care...that can't adequately take care for their aging population.
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 10, 2003 06:25 AM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on December 10, 2003 06:29:13 AM new
If Christmas was only celebrated by devout Christians, just think what would happen to the U.S. economy!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on December 10, 2003 06:50:37 AM new
Since approx. 86% of this country profess to being Christian, I doubt there would be much economic damage.
But Christmas has always been both a secular and a religious holiday.
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replaymedia
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posted on December 10, 2003 07:04:33 AM new
If Christians celebrate Christmas they make God happy.
If Satanists celebrate Christmas they make Satan mad.
If Atheists celebrate Christmas no one cares one way or the other.
Let it go!
-------------------
Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
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Helenjw
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posted on December 10, 2003 07:15:19 AM new
Very perceptive, Replaymania!
AMEN
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fenix03
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posted on December 10, 2003 10:21:33 AM new
My parents have different religions which I have never known either to practice. I was brought up without religion (unless you count my period of 8 year old rebellion when I attended a southern baptist church for about a month but I think that was for the candy that we were bribed with to go). Despite that, Christmas was always a big event. Grandparents would come, friends would come over and wonderful times were had by all.
As I grew up and moved out and eventually out of state, Christmas was a time when all of us refugees (there were a couple dozen friends from home that all moved to California in about a years time, those that didn't go home for the holidays were nicknamed refugees) got together as an adopted extended family cooked, drank, watched football, embarassed each other with memories of of our time before moving, had drunken off key sing alongs and laughed all day. That group has now spread to the winds but now I get together with other friends.
I don't celebrate Christmas in the traditional manner. I don't see it as a celebration of Christ or any other religious connotation but I celebrate Christmas as what it always was to me. One day out of the year where the only obligation you have is to enjoy friends and family and the privledge of having both.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 10, 2003 10:53:10 AM new
I see no reason athiests can't 'celebrate' Christmas. Though don't they call it Winter Soltice Holiday or something (theres got to be an athiest here that knows more)
Couldn't help it, here: (if it works) 
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 10, 2003 10:55:52 AM new
ooooops sorry, that was taken from the athiests.org site
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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Helenjw
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posted on December 10, 2003 12:25:50 PM new
Probably the best greeting is Happy Holidays! That includes everyone.
I am not a Christian or a believer but I continue to celebrate Christmas along with my family.
Helen
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kraftdinner
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posted on December 10, 2003 01:19:01 PM new
I understand what you're all saying. Sure, we can celebrate along with others, and that's fine. Most people get time off work, so it's convenient for everyone and makes sense.
I'm just talking in the true sense. If I was a white supremist, and celebrated MLK Day with my friends because everyone got time off and it was tradition, I would be a hypocrit. Same goes for Christmas.
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fenix03
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posted on December 10, 2003 01:30:04 PM new
Sorry Krafty but I don't feel that I am a hypocrit because Christmas has a different meaning to me than to you. Quite honestly the only person that I have seen whose celbration traditions matches those of traditional religion is Prof who stated that most of his families gift gining does not happen until Three Kings Day in January. Modern Christianity has clumped everything into one date and the tales of Christmas and the the gits to baby Jesus tend to omit that the Kings were not right around the corner from the barn and it took a few days for them to get to there.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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akmcmc1
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posted on December 10, 2003 01:58:11 PM new
Actually fenix, it took a few years. Christ was a toddler when they arrived.
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fenix03
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posted on December 10, 2003 02:04:35 PM new
I don't doubt it. Every religious seems to have a different interpretation.... part of the reason I have never bothered to subscribe to one ; )
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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austbounty
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posted on December 10, 2003 02:39:42 PM new
Oh contraire! Linda
“Egypt has declared Christmas a National Holiday....for their Christian citizens they did so to be more like” Australia “in being accepting of religious differences.”
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Twelvepole
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posted on December 10, 2003 02:52:55 PM new
I say Merry Christmas, don't like tough...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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austbounty
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posted on December 10, 2003 03:05:16 PM new
Thank you 12,
Merry Christmas; or choke to you too.
‘The silly season’
Only 14 shopping days left.
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Linda_K
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posted on December 10, 2003 03:06:45 PM new
Merry Christmas!!!
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profe51
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posted on December 10, 2003 03:22:36 PM new
My wife still hasn't shopped. I bet it's because she's not Christian, any decent Christian would be out there spending money!!
___________________________________
The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then gets elected and proves it.
-- P. J. ORourke (Holidays in hell, 1989)
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bunnicula
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posted on December 10, 2003 03:25:24 PM new
When I was a kid, we were all jealous of the Jewish kids in school--they not only got Xmas vacation, but also time off for Hannukah some years
Hey--any time off work or school is great, regardless of what the holiday is.
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
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Linda_K
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posted on December 10, 2003 03:30:24 PM new
me too bunni.
edited to add...that I thought it was really neat they got one gift each day for eight days rather than it all being over in a couple of hours.
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 10, 2003 03:33 PM ]
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 10, 2003 03:32:30 PM new
Probably the best greeting is Happy Holidays! That includes everyone. I am not a Christian or a believer but I continue to celebrate Christmas along with my family.
But Helen, the word Holiday in itself comes from old English? meaning a Holy Day
I think. (but I've been wrong on several occasions, so correct me if wrong)
Anyway! Merry Christmas!!!!
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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austbounty
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posted on December 10, 2003 03:37:12 PM new
Yes Profe!
Save her soul!
Get the cheque book!!!!!!
And always remember!!!!!
The degree of Christian Caring is directly expressed in monetary terms as:
The value of the present ___multiplied by ___ (the value of the Giver’s X-Mass present ___divided by the value of the Givee’s X-Mass Present).
We must all pay for our sins.
Will that be cash or credit?
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bunnicula
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posted on December 10, 2003 04:33:43 PM new
But Helen, the word Holiday in itself comes from old English? meaning a Holy Day
Yes, it did. However words & their usage change over time. Take the word "awful" --it is never used as it orignally, meaning "inspiring awe" or "filled with awe." Today it is used to mean that something is disagreeable or objectionable.
Edited for UBB
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
[ edited by bunnicula on Dec 10, 2003 04:34 PM ]
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