bunnicula
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posted on December 16, 2003 05:18:56 PM new
I didn't want to hijack Bear's thread so I started a different one 
OK. Celebrity statements in the field of politics. Bear started a thread containing an article written by SF writer Orson Scott Card, a celebrity in his field. The fact that he posted it, and highlighted parts of it for emphasis, indicates that he agrees with what Mr. Card had to say.
But what Mr. Card said has nothing to to with this thread. The question here is why is this celebrity's viewpoint more valid than any other's? Just a few months ago Bear & others who share his political ideology were vilifying other celebrities for having the audacity to state their political viewpoints. It was snarled that those celebrities have no "expertise" & therefore no right to have their opinions made public. But...neither does Mr. Card have any "expertise." He is a science fiction writer, not a political expert of any kind. Yet here he is, his views being touted on this board.
And there we come to the real crux of the matter, don't we? Celebrities who espouse the political views of the right are "good," while those who don't are "bad" in the eyes of some & should therefore keep their mouths shut as they have no right to express their viewpoints &, in so doing, influence the public in any way. But I guess Mr. Card can influence folks all he wants...
BTW--I am a big fan of Orson Scott Card's books & own them all.
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replaymedia
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posted on December 16, 2003 05:29:14 PM new
Card is a writer. His books often involve politcs and warfare. I'm sure he has given a lot of thought to politics. He makes logical arguments in his articles. No one is going to call him ignorant or stupid.
Unlike your typical MTV star who probably couldn't point out Iraq on a map. and wants to end the war because "war is a bad thing" or honestly believes the "Bush is a Fascist."
There is nothing wrong with celebrities giving their opinion, if they are intelligent and educated opinions. Celebrities who just spit out opinions without a thought in their head deserve to go the way of the Dixie Chicks.
One example from not too long ago is Mike Farrell. I disagree with nearly everything he believes in, but I do respect his opinion because he actually believes in his opinions and tries to act on them.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
[ edited by replaymedia on Dec 16, 2003 05:30 PM ]
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bunnicula
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posted on December 16, 2003 05:32:12 PM new
His books involve imaginary politics bearing little resemblance to reality as we know it. He does a good job ofimagineering worlds, but still...
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
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BEAR1949
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posted on December 16, 2003 05:46:07 PM new
Just more proof that you non believers cannot accept criticism against the demo party.
I love Barbra Streisand;s singing voice & music, none can compete. But I throughly dislike he political stance. To tell you how long it has been since I purchased a album of hers it was a LP (not too many of you will remember what that is).
Replay, exactly my point....
"Another plague upon the land, as devastating as the locusts God loosed on the Egyptians, is "Political Correctness.'" --Charlton Heston
[ edited by BEAR1949 on Dec 16, 2003 05:47 PM ]
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bunnicula
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posted on December 16, 2003 05:52:39 PM new
Um...as I have stated before, I am not a Democrat. I really don't care if they're criticized or not. Same with the Republicans. I am just struck by the hypocrisy that says some celebrities have the right to speak but others don't.
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 16, 2003 06:06:47 PM new
I plead total ignorance on this writer, as in the other thread shows it and I'm a Sci Fi fan!
But as replay states, the guy is a writer, and deals with 'political' writing, albeit imaginary, you do have to research on politics to write well, be it real or imagined.
Still it is his opinion, but *maybe* a little more educated one than say the Dixie Chicks?
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 16, 2003 06:09:18 PM new
bear, I know what an LP is, unfortunately
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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replaymedia
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posted on December 16, 2003 06:33:46 PM new
NearTheSea;
Check out "Ender's Game". It is one of the all-time great sci-fi books. Especially if you were ever a smart teenager!
"How To Write Science Fiction and Fantasy" by him is also a lot of fun.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
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Linda_K
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posted on December 16, 2003 06:49:39 PM new
LOL - NTS
The question here is why is this celebrity's viewpoint more valid than any other's?
I didn't know who this guy was, nor that he is a celebrity. I thought SF meant he was another ultra liberal from San Francisco, proving they weren't all nuts. 
But I always appreciate reading articles like that when it's a more moderate democrat who is also concerned about where those on the 'angry left' are taking their party. Many less radical democrats share Mr. Card's views.
Imo, Bear's article is no different than *any* of the other op-ed articles that we have discussed before.
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Helenjw
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posted on December 16, 2003 07:32:37 PM new
When the tables are turned, the opinions differ...as Linda states....
"Sean Penn - who knows...maybe he'll turn out to be this generation's Hanoi Jane."
"Celebrities do have a lot of influence on their fans. Some celebrities think they're so important and they're going to lead their following to the 'right way of thinking'. Sad part is it will work on many."
Helen
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Linda_K
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posted on December 16, 2003 07:44:51 PM new
As I said helen....I didn't know who Mr. Card was....BIG difference. I was agreeing with the views stated in an op-ed article.
And as I said, UNLIKE you I stand behind the statements I make in my posts. If Sean Penn were a nobody...he wouldn't have gotten the news media attention he got when he traveled to Iraq.
As far as I am aware, Mr. Card hasn't made a trip to Iraq.
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 16, 2003 07:46 PM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on December 16, 2003 07:49:31 PM new
???
The question concerns the hypocrisy that some celebrities have the right to speak but others don't.
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Linda_K
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posted on December 16, 2003 07:52:18 PM new
Shoo fly...
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profe51
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posted on December 16, 2003 08:15:06 PM new
I stated my opinion in the other thread bunni. You're right, it is hypocritical to give more credence to one celebrity's opinion over another's, just because you happen to agree with it. To say that Mr. Card's opinions on politics or warfare are more valid because he writes about politics and warfare on other planets and in other dimensions is laughable at the very least. His opinion holds as much validity as anyone's. If he believes it, good for him. Good for the Dixie Chicks, good for Sean Penn...they're using their celebrity to put forth their views...they are lucky to be able to do that, and I say more power to them....doesn't have a thing to do with whether I agree with them, or (in Card's case) think they're bozos.
___________________________________
The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then gets elected and proves it.
-- P. J. ORourke (Holidays in hell, 1989)
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 16, 2003 08:29:30 PM new
Replay, I'll have to check him out. Right now I'm reading the 'Best of' Sci Fi for 1995! And then I have boxes! of 'Analog' mags, that are old, I really like the older SF writers, but read new too
Sorry OT
But I really like the 'shoo fly' post
LOL!
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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Helenjw
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posted on December 16, 2003 08:59:23 PM new
Yes, That was brilliant when you consider the source.
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 16, 2003 09:21:40 PM new
no, it was funny
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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Twelvepole
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posted on December 17, 2003 04:45:57 AM new
As was previously pointed out these celebrities do have the right to free speech, but their "fans" have that right also, the difference is that Dixie Chicks fan base was not "left" by any stretch of the imagination and that is why they no longer do country music...
Sean Penn's fan base is more liberal... so no back lash of the fans free speech will be forth coming...
It is ok to have celebrity views, but the celebrities shouldn't #*!@ when their fans show their views...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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Helenjw
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posted on December 17, 2003 06:38:06 AM new
shoo fly was funny?
Think about what attracts flies, nearthesea.
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desquirrel
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posted on December 17, 2003 09:03:23 AM new
Norman Schwartzkopf is a "celebrity". I would much rather hear his ideas regarding a proposed Afghan invasion, than listen to Sean Penn tell me how it will be terrible and our troops will be massacred like the Russians.
Mind you, the Dixie Chicks (any of them) can talk to me for hours about tuning a guitar.
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Helenjw
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posted on December 17, 2003 09:35:09 AM new
"Norman Schwartzkopf is a "celebrity". I would much rather hear his ideas regarding a proposed Afghan invasion, than listen to Sean Penn tell me how it will be terrible and our troops will be massacred like the Russians."
So you want to hear fine tuned dixie chicks and a bullshitting general. Rumsfeld will fill the bill but Schwartzkopf is not your man. He will tell you the truth. -- that the battle will be terrible and troops will be killed.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Dec 17, 2003 09:36 AM ]
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 17, 2003 10:02:47 AM new
Helen said the BS word
(how did that get by the censors?)
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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Helenjw
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posted on December 17, 2003 11:04:20 AM new
Maybe the same way that word that you used once upon a time got by. LOL
Helen
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 17, 2003 11:30:58 AM new
the same word the *I* *ME* used, no way, I would never, ever......
plus it had to have been over 2 years ago..... IF true....
and it was probably someone that hijacked my name
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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Helenjw
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posted on December 17, 2003 11:36:23 AM new
By comparison to YOUR word, MY word is tame.
Helen
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Helenjw
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posted on December 17, 2003 11:39:55 AM new
It's true. And, of course, I can prove it.
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 17, 2003 11:43:57 AM new
ok, before you attempt to prove this, tell me, how long ago was this?
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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Helenjw
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posted on December 17, 2003 11:47:59 AM new
I wouldn't post anything here unless you wanted me to, Nearthesea...I was just responding to your little dig about the censors.
The year was 2001.
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NearTheSea
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posted on December 17, 2003 11:56:59 AM new
2001... hmmmmm I thought it was in 99, boy the years sure go by fast huh?
it wouldn't be posted to another poster who's name began with a P would it?
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
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Helenjw
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posted on December 17, 2003 11:59:00 AM new
No...It was a K
That's why I remembered.
Hahaha
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