snowyegret
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posted on February 3, 2004 08:05:28 PM new
""Congress must censure President Bush
for misleading the country
about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.""
The petition is here at moveon.org.
Posted elsewhere. Thanks.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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plsmith
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posted on February 3, 2004 08:38:51 PM new
Censure, as applied by the House in the past, is nothing more than a politically expedient hand-slap that allows the slapee to avoid the fact-finding process of a trial and the slappers to cluck that they did "something".
There's a process that was established and outlined in our Constitution over 200 years ago: impeachment. House gathers facts, determines if there's enough evidence to impeach (indict) and if there is, they send it along to the Senate.
The House of Representatives, by voting on the articles of impeachment, rather than acting as judge and jury via censure, would be correctly adhering to the impeachment process as set forth by the Constitution. If a majority vote is attained, the adjudication of the articles of impeachment will be properly referred to the Senate for trial as set forth by the Constitution. If a majority vote is not attained, the impeachment process will end at that point as set forth by the Constitution.
If the articles of impeachment are referred to the Senate, the President, as in any trial, will be afforded the opportunity for a full and fair hearing presided over by the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. If the Senate fails to find the President guilty by a two-thirds vote, he will be vindicated of his alleged violations of law. If the Senate finds the President guilty, the arguments over his violations of law will be settled.
Regardless of the outcome in the Senate, the House of Representatives, by choosing impeachment over censure would reaffirm for future generations that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, that no one is above the law and that everyone is equal before the law.
Nevertheless, it's always a good idea to email our representatives in Washington. They really do read the ones we take the time to write ourselves...
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snowyegret
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posted on February 3, 2004 08:46:01 PM new
Pat, I would prefer impeachment, but it can't hurt to let our elected reps know the feelings of the people they represent.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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Helenjw
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posted on February 3, 2004 08:56:23 PM new
I would prefer regime change. Thanks for posting that, Snowy.
Helen
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snowyegret
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posted on February 3, 2004 09:00:42 PM new
I don't know, Helen. Some <gasp> foreign army coming in, knocking out the elctric and water, hard to find gas and food, losing my job, military occupation, just to put in some provisional government of their choice?
I'd stick with impeachment.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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Helenjw
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posted on February 3, 2004 09:09:10 PM new
You should know that I was not serious.
Helen
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snowyegret
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posted on February 3, 2004 09:18:40 PM new
I was making a point about what happens with regime change, and how little anyone here in the US would like it.
(I knew you weren't serious).
I'd be glued to the TV if Bush was impeached, but then I couldn't say reality TV sucks. Might be better than Watergate. 
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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plsmith
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posted on February 3, 2004 09:36:15 PM new
Yeah, Snowy, I know that "something" (censure) is better than nothing, but it pissed me off when that became the natural order of things. Censure does lead to a broader awareness of wrongs committed, but it doesn't change the status quo. Bill took his censure before it was made -- he stipulated to it!
I'd just like to see our guvmint representatives treat the Constitution they swore to uphold with "something" that looks like sincerity and not just a nasty nod and wink.
"I'd be glued to the TV if Bush was impeached, but then I couldn't say reality TV sucks. Might be better than Watergate."
I thought Iran-Contra/Ollie North was pretty good... 
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CBlev65252
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posted on February 4, 2004 04:31:58 AM new
The only problem (and it's a BIG one) with impeachment (or regime change as we all know it would be) is that it leaves Chaney in charge. I shudder to think. Just let Bush keep on talking. . .and keep on putting his own foot in his mouth. Anyone else excited about seeing Bush have to debate with someone who is actually intelligent? Should be loads of laughs! Without a script in front of him, he's lost.
Cheryl
http://tinyurl.com/vm6u
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gravid
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posted on February 4, 2004 04:45:08 AM new
Just hold on to your hat. When Rice gets through testifying to the 9/11 commission it may break things open. She strikes me as the sort that if anything was going to stick to her would rat out everyone connected to her in a heartbeat.
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Helenjw
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posted on February 4, 2004 06:10:37 AM new
Yes, gravid...in a heartbeat
Snowyegret,
Good point! I'm glad that my silly comment gave you the opportunity to make it.
Helen
ed. to remove an errant "r"
[ edited by Helenjw on Feb 4, 2004 07:08 AM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on February 4, 2004 07:48:48 AM new
Censure Bush
[ edited by Helenjw on Feb 4, 2004 07:49 AM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on February 4, 2004 08:09:54 AM new
Going to be pretty hard for our Congress to either censure or impeach President Bush....since they are the one's that voted to give him this war power. What are they going to use as an excuse...."I didn't take the time to study our intelligence reports for myself?" hahaha What a laugh....dream on.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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plsmith
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posted on February 4, 2004 10:14:55 AM new
Interesting observation about Rice. If one can believe previous interviews of her, "Condi" is often the only guest George takes on his Camp David retreats.
If indeed there's something to blab about 9/11, she may just go the way another president's friend did when he knew too much; everyone remember Vince Foster?
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gravid
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posted on February 4, 2004 10:16:11 AM new
No things like that don't happen from the direction you are expecting.
Just like Watergate was from Nixon's own stupidity when he didn't have to give them that handle on him.
The fact Rice has held out and gotten what amounts to virtual immunity for her testimony tells me she sees a need to have done so.
She just may hand them more than they have the nerve to use though.
If there is any squealing to be done the first person foreward gets the rewards for ratting. Being second or third doesn't buy you much. And if she sees a problem coming and has any doubt which way the election is going she will save her own little butt before her protectors lose their power.
She is brilliant and cunning and everything I look for in a lawyer when I hire one. I think she has as much raw intelligence as Bush and Cheney and Rummy all put together. The equal of two smart men and sixth grader.
If she wanted to be the first woman AND black President I'd put my money on her in a minute - but she probably sees easier ways to wield power than that office.
I think if you tried to pull a Foster on her she might send the hit man back gift wrapped with his family jewels taped inside his mouth and his weapon pushed up where the sun don't shine.
[ edited by gravid on Feb 4, 2004 10:20 AM ]
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Twelvepole
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posted on February 4, 2004 10:23:01 AM new
Good observation Linda, that point alone makes things moot... of course being cenusred doesn't really do anything... but then again he won't care after this election, can only be president twice...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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gravid
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posted on February 4, 2004 11:03:31 AM new
Unless you have a constitutional amendment when you call a convention to make an amendment to outlaw gay marraige or declare a state of national emergency after the next big terrorist attack......
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Bear1949
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posted on February 4, 2004 11:29:53 AM new
Moveon.org. Now that's a true non partisan site run by a bunch of lib loosers. Same site that sunk to such lows as to compare Pres Bush to Hitler.
CBS refused to run their adds during the superbowl, they were so low.
Where were they when Clinton dishonored the White House. Should have compared Clinton to Larry Flynt...or the Mitchell brothers.
"If you believe you can tell me what to think, I believe I can tell you where to go. Not all of us are sheep....."
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