posted on March 13, 2004 09:37:32 AM new
I thought this was an interesting article on how Europe views America.
Across a Great Divide
By PETER SCHNEIDER
New York Times
Published: March 13, 2004
BERLIN, March 12 — The war in Iraq has made the Atlantic seem wider. But really it has had the effect of a magnifying glass, bringing older and more fundamental differences between Europe and the United States into focus.
These growing divisions — over war, peace, religion, sex, life and death — amount to a philosophical dispute about the common origins of European and American civilization. Both children of the Enlightenment, the United States and Europe clearly differ about the nature of this inheritance and about who is its better custodian.
posted on March 13, 2004 10:09:34 AM new
What an excellent article!!! There is wisdom in every paragraph.
Will America become Democratic again? With Bush in control, we certainly aren't headed in that direction. Hopefully it really is "5 minutes to 12 for George W. Bush".
posted on March 13, 2004 04:03:53 PM new
I couldn't give a rat's ass about what Europeans think. These are the folks who brought us communism, fascism and the worst genocide in world history. Just in the last century, they were responsible for at least 100 million deaths. Think about that, 100 million people killed. And misery for hundreds of millions more.
posted on March 14, 2004 01:01:25 AM new
That will be the downfall of America if there are many like you who don't give a rat's ass about the rest of the world or what they are thinking.
Because of my job I get a chance to meet people that travel from all over the world and I hear first-hand their opinions of Canada and the US. The young people from Germany are tired of being blamed for things that happened many years ago. How long can you continue to blame other countries for the things done in the past yet support your own government that does similar things?
America cannot remain a world power in this day and age if they remain ignorant about the rest of the world and what the rest of the world is thinking about them.
posted on March 14, 2004 12:07:41 PM new
Many Canadians feel that way about Americans too, Kiara... the U.S. is a "ME" society perpetuated by narrow-minded people, such as the current leader. That's why it was so laughable (as in: you've got to be kidding) when the U.S. asked for help from other countries in Iraq.
If the U.S. doesn't need help from anyone, why is it losing the war in Afghanistan and Iraq?
posted on March 14, 2004 12:41:24 PM new
For many years now Americans have come into my shop to buy Canada flag decals for their luggage, Canada t-shirts and caps to wear and Canada pins to stick on their jackets for when they or their friends or family members travel overseas because they don’t want others to know they’re American.
Other travelers in the airports smile because they KNOW that these people are Americans and not Canadians. And if I told you why or how they know, some of you would be angry with me.
I have friends and relatives that live in the US, I see things from both sides and I’m not saying that all Americans are ignorant because they’re certainly not. I truly believe that America has some of the most intelligent people worldwide.
But there is an attitude among many, such as comments here where you almost pride yourself in your ignorance in what the rest of the world thinks about you, that doesn’t help the way that others worldwide view your country. How long do you think you can go around forcing your ways on other countries before they all join together and look at you with disdain because they want their own cultures, governments, religions and other beliefs that they take pride in?
posted on March 14, 2004 12:48:57 PM new"How long do you think you can go around forcing your ways on other countries before they all join together and look at you with disdain because they want their own cultures, governments, religions and other beliefs that they take pride in?"
Good point. Don't you think that's already happening, Kiara? That's why the U.S. needs a foothold in the Middle East. Their oil will insure the U.S.'s future so no country will try to do that.
posted on March 14, 2004 01:51:13 PM new
You think the U.S. is winning, Twelve? Winning what? Both Afghanistan and Iraq are in total shambles thanks to your President, who by the way, doesn't mind his own country going to shambles while he pushes ahead. Innocent people from all countries are being sacrificed, for what? What's been won? And please don't make me laugh by saying freedom.
posted on March 14, 2004 02:41:57 PM new
How are we losing kraft?
Come one show me how we are losing?
Only losing I see is by having your soldier in Afghanistan and nothing getting done... or are you just trying to overlook that?
Iraq is coming along and contrary to ignorant belief it does take a awhile to get democracy in action... We started in 1776 and didn't finish until 1789 along with changes along the way throug today...
We all can't live in a country where the Monarchy decided to let you be indpendent... but then maybe that's why you don't understand.
posted on March 14, 2004 03:58:24 PM new
You're losing because you are fighting a war based on your OWN opinion about what's right and wrong. As Kiara said, each country is entitled to do and think the way they want and not be beholden to any other country for approval. The Afghanistan war was understandable because of 911. But Afghanistan's back to the way it was pre-911. What was won there? The Iraqi war wasn't understandable. Now it's in ruins because the U.S. didn't like Saddam. What was won there? Who else is on the list? While Bush is busy campaigning, another 10,000+ people will lose their jobs. How is that winning? If you think this is all kosher for your country, then I'd have to disagree.
We are "losing" because you have to remember these people are flooded with the wacko COMMENTARY of the websites and publications they frequent. Kind of like asking Goebbels about the Allies new offensive in 1943.
If you look at more factual mainstream papers etc, you find 100% of Iraqs electric power restored, hospitals and schools repaired and opened, oil pumping and defining these items as successes as opposed to somebody blowing up a local police station as an illustration of "utter failure".
Lefties have to pray their country fails to salve their psyches and be true to their theories of how the world should be, after being in denial of the vipers in paradise.
posted on March 14, 2004 04:25:28 PM new
You're missing the point desquirrel. In some people's (countries) opinion, Iraq should have never been attacked to begin with. All this to get rid of one man and his country full of womd? At what cost to the American people?
posted on March 14, 2004 04:39:00 PM new"We are "losing" because you have to remember these people are flooded with the wacko COMMENTARY of the websites and publications they frequent. Kind of like asking Goebbels about the Allies new offensive in 1943."
desquirrel, What are the publications and the websites that you "frequent". If Goebbels were alive today, he would heap praise upon the publications and websites that have led people such as you to believe that the U.S is winning the war in Iraq and that all is lovely in Baghdad.
Please tell us so that we can avoid such distorted influence.
posted on March 14, 2004 05:48:33 PM new
"You're missing the point desquirrel. In some people's (countries) opinion, Iraq should have never been attacked to begin with. All this to get rid of one man and his country full of womd? At what cost to the American people?"
The war had nothing really to do with getting rid of 1 man or WOMD.
It was, however, a master stroke.
Iraq was a haven of support and funds for every Arab terror organization in the book. Just like Syria, just like Iran, just like Libya. Iraq was the easiest nut to crack, given the refusal to follow the UN decries etc. and provided a means to establish something we vitally needed, an American military presence in the Mideast.
So much more than one little dictator and his haven, we have now neutralized Syria, given we control the illegal pipeline from Iraq that feeds them. And you thought they've been more "cooperative" because they wanted to be nice.
Libya now seems to want to be a friend to the world.
We can now more easily funnel support to the moderates in Iran, and have no reason to be beholding to the Saudis anymore.
Jordan no longer has Iraq to prop up its support of the Palestinians.
Depending how much we can suppress the arms and training given Palestinian terrorists, we can probably look toward progress in the Israeli/Palestinian tinderbox also.
posted on March 14, 2004 08:04:58 PM new
Well said desquirrel.
It looks like the terrorist attack in Spain was a huge success. Today, they elected the socialists who are going to pull their troops out of Iraq. That is EXACTLY what the terrorists wanted. The Spanish pretty much surrendered to the terrorists demands. That is why I have no respect for Europeans.
