posted on April 17, 2004 02:23:24 PM new
now we will see if the rich kids go in the military, NOT...it will be your kids, and grand kids,of the common citizen, and for those so called Bush patriots, now you will taste what it means to lose a child.......and come back and tell me if it was for honor or for corperate profits.....
posted on April 17, 2004 04:07:16 PM new
When the draft begins, as it surely will, there will be massive protests similar to those during the Vietnam War. This is another problem that was unanticipated by the Bush administration. In fact, Rumsfeld admitted Thursday that he had not expected U.S. troops to continue facing fierce fighting more than a year after the invasion. The volunteer and reenlistment rate will not be sufficient to carry on this battle.
I suspect that the draft notices are ready to mail.
posted on April 17, 2004 04:56:56 PM new
Yes, I think the draft may be soon unless there is a miracle.
Military officers have admitted that they weren't prepared for the sophistication and organization of the insurgents when it comes to blowing up bridges and blocking roads. They now admit they needed more troops at the beginning and that they need them now.
I remember when some here were giggling about the looting a year ago and I knew back then that things were out of control. Whenever any of us mentioned that they needed more troops and that they needed to take control of towns, roadways, etc we were laughed at. We were told that we didn't know what we were talking about and that Bush and his buddies had full control of the situation. There wasn't anything to laugh about back then and it's a sadder mess now.
posted on April 17, 2004 05:10:01 PM new
What, you guys think we have ALL our troops over there? If they need more, we'll send more.
We have an army of how many tens or hundreds of thousands? Anyone actually know? As far as troops killed, there have still "only" been a few hundred. This is bad, but statistically not a large number. We aren't close to running out just yet
I'm sure re-enlistment has fallen. All the ones who signed up for a free education are getting out as soon as they can. That's only logical. I don't think that's really the kind of soldier we want in a war zone anyway. We need the heroic ones who volunteered right after 9/11. Surely some of them must be left?
We don't need the troops that badly, and even if we did, do you think Bush would even think of mentioning it in an election? It would be obvious political suicide.
As far as the letter on your website goes, even if it is real, I'm sure there is a logical explanation. We've always had to sign up for selective service- certainly there must be someone actually assigned to a draft department to do something with all those names, even in peacetime.
And once again, I'll mention that Kerry said he would "stay the course," because "abandoning Iraq now would be the worst possible mistake."
So your vote WON'T make a difference. Not that you have one anyway, Skylite.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on April 17, 2004 05:33:36 PM new Replay, you are right about the reluctance of George Bush to even suggest a draft before the election. But apparently there is a draft in the plans...undisclosed but there.
20,000 Troops Extended in Iraq/Kuwait
WASHINGTON – About 20,000 soldiers now in Iraq and Kuwait will serve at least 90 days past their originally scheduled tours of duty, according to the American Forces News Service.
The total period of Iraq-Kuwait troop extensions could go up to 120 days, if redeployment times and leaves are factored in. Most troops had received one-year tours in the region. About 11,000 are from parts of two brigades of the 1st Armored Division based in Germany. About 3,100 to 3,200 are with the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment from Fort Polk, La. Some smaller units of 200 personnel or less drawn from Fort Bragg, N.C., Fort Drum, N.Y., and Fort Lewis, Wash., also are affected. About 6,000 guardsmen and reservists from more than 20 states are part of the extension.
UNITED NATIONS, April 16 (UPI) -- The U.S. ambassador, speaking before the U.N. Security Council Friday, called on members of the United Nations to contribute troops for a new multinational force dedicated to protecting the world organization in Iraq.
Negroponte, U.S. ambassador told reporters, "There's no specific draft on the table. There's some thinking that's being done both in our government and in others. I don't expect anything to surface in the very near future. I'm sure over the next several weeks this is an issue we're going to have to address."
Our vote will make a difference because it will rid this country of the bungling deceptive and corrupt administration represented by George Bush.
posted on April 17, 2004 08:09:05 PM new
There has been a military "stop loss" order in effect for nearly a year. There are service men and women in Iraq who should have been discharged and out of the military, some should have even been retired last year.
For all intents and purposes a Draft has been in operation for quite a while now.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A new report from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office says that under current policies, the U.S. military can maintain current troop strength -- 180,000 in and around Iraq -- only until March 2004.
After that time, the report said, a U.S. occupation force numbering between 38,000 and 64,000 personnel could remain in the country indefinitely -- at a cost of up to $12 billion per year.
The report was done at the request of Democratic Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia, a harsh critic of how the Bush administration has conducted the war and subsequent occupation in Iraq.
In a statement, Byrd said the report is "quantified evidence that the long-term occupation is straining our forces close to the breaking point."
The CBO analysis notes that about 180,000 U.S. military personnel are involved in the occupation -- about 150,000 in Iraq itself. It says the CBO made no assumptions about how long the occupation might last or about the size of the force that might be necessary, but instead "focused on determining how large an occupation the U.S. military could sustain in Iraq indefinitely while still maintaining acceptable levels of military readiness and not jeopardizing the quality of the all-volunteer force..."
The CBO analysis states: "The active Army would be unable to sustain an occupation force of the present size beyond about March 2004 if it chose not to keep individual units deployed to Iraq for longer than one year without relief (an assumption consistent with DoD's current planning)," the report says.
"In the six to 12 months after March, the level of U.S. forces in Iraq would begin to decline as units that had been deployed for a year were relieved and were not replaced on a one-for-one basis. After the winter of 2004-2005, the United States could sustain --indefinitely, if need be -- an occupation force of 38,000 to 64,000 military personnel using only combat units from the Army's active component (and some support units from the reserves), the option that constitutes the base case in this analysis."
With a force of that size, the occupation would cost $8 billion to $12 billion per year, CBO estimates. A larger force of 67,000 to 106,000 troops could be sustained in Iraq, the report concludes, if the Pentagon employed Marine Corps units, Army Special Forces groups and combat units from the Army National Guard -- at a cost of $14 billion to $19 billion a year.
The report states that by increasing the overall size of the Army -- by adding two new divisions, for example -- the United States could sustain an occupation force of 85,000 to 129,000 personnel, at a yearly cost of up to $29 billion.
The Pentagon opposes adding new divisions and is predicting the need for U.S. forces in Iraq will decrease as the security situation improves, other countries contribute soldiers and Iraqis take over military and police duties.
posted on April 17, 2004 09:23:58 PM new
replay - kerry's statement about staying the course doesn't matter to them. It's just another way for them to vent against this President.
Kerry's saying 'we're staying' never phases them. They're counting on kerry's past anti-war history [working with Hanoi Jane during vietnam - accusing American soldiers of war crimes - thowing away someone elses medal/ribbons] and voting record to be his TRUE position, and they're expecting him to flip-flop once again IF elected. [but he won't be]
posted on April 17, 2004 10:34:35 PM new
Sky you don't have to worry about being drafted. If it does happen they will only take able bodied men & women, not mental midgets like you.
'We have dispatched Dr. David Kay...to search for the bio-warfare agents we believe hidden in Senator Kerry's forehead. If Senator Kerry has used botox as part of a wrinkle enrichment program, he is in violation of UN Resolution 752. Upon receiving Dr. Kay's report, the weapons of mass destruction that Senator Kerry so adamantly insists do not exist...may well be above his very nose.'" --Dick Cheney when asked whether John Kerry has had Botox treaments
"kerry's statement about staying the course doesn't matter to them. It's just another way for them to vent against this President."
"Them" didn't deny Kerry's statement. I am confident that John Kerry is qualified to handle Bush's colossal foreign policy debacle and that when he "stays the course" he will be on a course with a goal that Bush in his Wyatt Earp mindset cannot even imagine. That goal is peace.
Helen
ubb ed.
[ edited by Helenjw on Apr 18, 2004 07:05 AM ]
posted on April 18, 2004 11:42:40 PM new
"Them" didn't deny Kerry's statement. I am confident that John Kerry is qualified to handle Bush's colossal foreign policy debacle and that when he "stays the course" he will be on a course with a goal that Bush in his Wyatt Earp mindset cannot even imagine. That goal is peace"
John Kerry is not even qualified to be Senator of a out house let alone be Commander of the Arm forces. Give me Wyatt Earp Bush anytime. Now that is a straight shooter !!. Fast quick action. Not a I did and then I did not.
posted on April 20, 2004 12:06:34 PM newSenator says US may need compulsory service to boost Iraq force
WASHINGTON (AFP) - A senior Republican lawmaker said that deteriorating security in Iraq may force the United States to reintroduce the military draft.
"There's not an American ... that doesn't understand what we are engaged in today and what the prospects are for the future," Senator Chuck Hagel told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on post-occupation Iraq.
"Why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?" Hagel said, arguing that restoring compulsory military service would force "our citizens to understand the intensity and depth of challenges we face."
The Nebraska Republican added that a draft, which was ended in the early 1970s, would spread the burden of military service in Iraq more equitably among various social strata.
"Those who are serving today and dying today are the middle class and lower middle class," he observed.
posted on April 21, 2004 06:36:38 AM new
Senator says US may need compulsory service to boost Iraq force
WASHINGTON (AFP) Apr 20, 2004
A senior Republican lawmaker said Tuesday that deteriorating security in Iraq may force the United States to reintroduce the military draft.
"There's not an American ... that doesn't understand what we are engaged in today and what the prospects are for the future," Senator Chuck Hagel told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on post-occupation Iraq.
"If that's the case, why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?" Hagel said, arguing that restoring compulsory military service would force "our citizens to understand the intensity and depth of challenges we face."
The Nebraska Republican added that a draft, which was ended in the early 1970s, would spread the burden of mililitary service in Iraq more equitably among various social strata.
"Those who are serving today and dying today are the middle class and lower middle class," he observed.
The call to consider a imposing a draft comes just days after the Pentagon moved to extend the missions of some 20,000 US troops in Iraq.
Some critics of the US-led occupation complain that military planners used too few troops to subdue Iraq, and insist that more military muscle will be needed to restore order.
are any of the rich warmongering politicians kids' going to be drafted ????????
posted on April 21, 2004 09:21:12 AM new
" are the middle class and lower middle class"
No kidding.
The benefits offered, such as college tuition generally aply to the lower ends of the income scale. Why would a rich kid WANT to join the military?
This isn't some big conspiracy against the poor, it's just the way things are.
Although I still say a Draft is political suicide for those involved, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Kids today NEED some discipline.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on April 21, 2004 09:47:21 AM new
No Child Left Unrecruited: Army Recruiters Target High Schools
The U.S. occupation of Iraq has descended into chaos. Over 700 U.S. troops have now been killed in Iraq since the beginning of the invasion, 100 of them in April alone. The past 14 days have reportedly been the deadliest two-week span for US troops since October 1971 during the Vietnam War.
In the face of overwhelming Iraqi resistance, the Pentagon has been forced to extend the stay of some 20,000 soldiers who were scheduled to leave soon for home. Over 130,000 U.S. soldiers remain stationed in Iraq.
But the American military empire stretches far beyond the Middle East. The U.S. maintains a vast network of bases on every continent except Antarctica spanning some 130 countries around the world and the government is continually looking for ways to replenish its overstretched military.
One place it is focusing its attention, is American high schools. Since 2001, the Bush administration has been requiring high schools to disclose student records to military recruiters or risk losing federal aid.
Under a mandate authorized by the Bush administration's No Child Left Behind Act, recruiters are entitled to get the names, addresses and phone numbers of high school juniors and seniors, unless parents or students sign a form requesting that the data be withheld. Districts that don't comply stand to lose millions in federal funding. As one Pentagon spokeswoman told the Los Angeles Times, the policy “Allows the Department of Defense to recruit from a much broader, diverse and more representative group of the youth of America."
Yesterday in Santa Barbara I spoke with Michael Cervantes, an Army veteran with Veterans for Peace who is campaiging against Bush's policy to target high school students for military recruitment. Cervantes fought in the Vietnam war after being drafted out of high school. I asked him what actions he had taken against the policy.
Michael Cervantes, an Army veteran with Veterans for Peace who is campaiging against a Bush administration policy that requires high schools to disclose student records to military recruiters or risk losing federal aid. He fought in the Vietnam War after being drafted out of high school.
AMY GOODMAN: Yesterday in Santa Barbara, I spoke with Michael Cervantes. He is an Army veteran who is now with Veterans for Peace, who is campaigning against Bush's policy to target high school students for military recruitment. Michael Cervantes fought in the Vietnam War after being recruited right after high school. I asked him what actions he has taken against the policy?
MICHAEL CERVANTES: We started with P.T.A. meetings, and they were real polite and they told us thanks for visiting with us, and letting us know your concerns. This was about the names, addresses and phone numbers being released to the military now. But they said nothing more. So, I made an appointment to talk with the Board trustees at the Oxnard Junior High School District, with two other organizations, the Citizens for Peaceful Resolutions and the ACLU. We asked the Ventura Chapter President to be there. So, we presented for about 20 minutes to the Board, and they were real quiet with us. They really didn't even respond, and it was like -- next. They had someone else to present after us.
AMY GOODMAN: What were you trying to tell them? What were you asking?
MICHAEL CERVANTES: Well, we wanted them to notify the parents, actually. I knew by intuition that the school district had not been notifying the students, and it turns out that I was correct. We had been working with a district staffer, and we found -- I found out through her. She said yes -- the big question is, are you releasing the entire student body of the 11th and 12th grade students out to the military, and the answer to that is yes. So, you have a school district who is doing that and not notifying parents, which is a requirement of the law. So, little by little, we're doing it step by step, trying to maybe even educate the Board. We came back to the Board a second time and presented, and still no -- no one opening their mouths on the Board to us. The best we could get from them was that we have a public administrator that you can talk to about your questions, and -- that's been about it. The most publicity that I can get so far is from the -- can I say the names of these magazines? V.C. Reporter did us real well. They published a two-page letter of mine in their weekly, and then the Ventura County Star published an article from me, and then now the "LA. Times" article just Sunday.
AMY GOODMAN: You did, though, succeed in getting the school to send letters home to parents?
MICHAEL CERVANTES: Right. Now, we have been successful. They have told us that they would attach to the front of a -- of the parent-student handbook that's made up every year, and sent out in the summertime. It's a 63-page booklet. Now, attached to the front of the booklet will be an information page informing the parents that release can be made to the military, and that if you want to prevent that, if you want to block that release, you have to sign a consent form. That consent form is found in the parent-student handbook. Unfortunately, it's the very last page, and it's not perforated. It doesn't look like something you want to separate from –
AMY GOODMAN: The parent is opting out, then, for the kids, saying, I don't want my kid's name to be sent to the military, and if they don't do it, it is automatically sent, boy or girl, high school or -- high school student, young woman or young man?
MICHAEL CERVANTES: That is correct.
AMY GOODMAN: Why did you feel so strongly about this? Why are you concerned about kids' names being sent to the Pentagon?
MICHAEL CERVANTES: Well, it's a matter, actually of students' rights. It's privacy rights. We want students' names to stay at the district, and also I'm concerned about the war, Amy. I don't -- you know, we don't need to have the students think that, you know, they have to go out and participate in this foreign policy. They're going to be pressured by recruiters, and it's not necessary for them to be pressured like that right now. They should think about getting their education. They should not have to be bothered at the high school level.
AMY GOODMAN: You're also doing an interesting action at the beach on Sundays. You can describe that?
MICHAEL CERVANTES: Yes. I'm really happy with that. It's a special action. For me, I view it as a memorial. It's an innocent hologram. I like to describe it that way, because you can take it away with you since you have seen that. We are placing one cross for each killed Iraqi soldier -- I'm sorry not Iraqi soldier, American soldier in the Iraq war. When the project started, I believe it started with 275 crosses back in November, and this past Sunday, we placed 691 crosses out at the beach, and we have had very close relations, memorialized fallen soldiers in the past several weeks.
AMY GOODMAN: How many of you do this?
MICHAEL CERVANTES: We have a core of about 9 to 12 town hall activists and Veterans for Peace members participating.
AMY GOODMAN: What kind of reaction to you get?
MICHAEL CERVANTES: It's varied. It is really varied. Most of it is approval. For me, personally, people will ask what it is out there, and then after having explained, as I just explained, they'll walk away saying, what a waste, the war is stupid. For me, that's the majority of the -- of what's been communicated to me. People are positive. They think we’re doing good work by doing that. And we’ll get an occasional person who will not think it’s a good idea to be using the dead as a promotion to political thoughts.
AMY GOODMAN: What is your response to that?
MICHAEL CERVANTES: Well, actually, we try not to give that type of a person a stage at the wharf. It's a very busy wharf. There are a lot of tourists out there. And I usually -- I usually don't stay and speak to a person too very long. I'll tell them that I have been at a war, and to me, that this is what our project represents, something good, and through seeing such a tragedy as all of that, you just have got to think that it's not right, but why are we having our sons and daughters perish like that, for what?
AMY GOODMAN: Michael Cervantes. Vietnam Veteran, who is taking on the Pentagon and trying to make sure that parents of high school students know that their kid's information is given to the Pentagon unless they proactively tell the high school not to pass on that information
posted on April 21, 2004 10:00:09 AM new
The eastern world it tis explodin',
violence flarin', bullets loadin',
you're old enough to kill but not for votin',
you don't believe in war, what's that gun you're totin',
and even the Jordan river has bodies floatin',
but you tell me over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.
[but he won't be]
