posted on May 5, 2004 12:01:15 PM new
John's dirty little secret has finally come to light. Appears the scratch he claims occured in combat was self inflicted, caused by a terminal case of dumbass and should have earned him a place on the Darwin Awards list.
Still waiting on him to release his medical records but guess that won't be happening any time soon.
----------------
Kerry Purple Heart Doc Speaks Out
The medical description of his first wound.
By Byron York
Some critics of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry have questioned the circumstances surrounding the first of three Purple Hearts Kerry won in Vietnam. Those critics, among them some of Kerry's fellow veterans, have suggested that a wound suffered by Kerry in December 1968 may have made him technically eligible for a Purple Heart but was not severe enough to warrant serious consideration, even for a decoration that was handed out by the thousands. Whatever the case, Kerry was awarded the Purple Heart, and, along with two others he won later, it allowed him to request to leave Vietnam before his tour of duty was finished.
Kerry was treated for the wound at a medical facility in Cam Ranh Bay. The doctor who treated Kerry, Louis Letson, is today a retired general practitioner in Alabama. Letson says he remembers his brief encounter with Kerry 35 years ago because "some of his crewmen related that Lt. Kerry had told them that he would be the next JFK from Massachusetts." Letson says that last year, as the Democratic campaign began to heat up, he told friends that he remembered treating one of the candidates many years ago. In response to their questions, Letson says, he wrote down his recollections of the time. (Letson says he has had no contacts with anyone from the Bush campaign or the Republican party.) What follows is Letson's memory, as he wrote it.
I have a very clear memory of an incident which occurred while I was the Medical Officer at Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay.
John Kerry was a (jg), the OinC or skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night.
The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy action.
Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.
That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.
What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.
I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.
The wound was covered with a bandaid.
Not [sic] other injuries were reported and I do not recall that there was any reported damage to the boat.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on May 5, 2004 12:44:31 PM new
There's only one problem with this report-- the doctor who makes these claims is not the treating doctor for the wound in question.
BTW Bear- you're quite the patriot debasing a hero's war record while supporting a military deserter and liar like Bush. If everyone was like Bush, we couldn't even field an army in Vietnam or Iraq.
You also have to wonder what kind of people these veterans are that support a deserter like Bush and try to smear a war hero like Kerry. These guys probably did kill innocent women and children and torture people while in Vietnam.
posted on May 5, 2004 01:06:22 PM new
Bear,
Does your repeated posting of threads such as this mean that you have no respect for the bronze and silver medals either. It seems to me that by discrediting the awards that you are being disrespectful not just to Kerry but to all the troops who have received the awards and also to the army officials who made the decision to award them.
I would like to know how you feel about those medals.
posted on May 5, 2004 01:38:06 PM new
I believe that Bear is living in his own uninformed little world and has no idea of the bigger picture. That doesn't make him a bad person. He is just very confused and uninformed. I hope that someday soon he will become better informed and realize THE WORLD NEEDS A NEW U.S. PRESIDENT.
posted on May 5, 2004 01:39:28 PM new
It was a symbolic toss, Nearthesea in a valiant effort to end the Vietnam War. Rather than review that subject again, I can give you a link. I'm interested in Bear's feelings about the medals that Kerry received...both the bronze and silver.
WASHINGTON
ON THE WAY to the fence where he threw some of his military decorations 33 years ago, I was 4 or 5 feet behind John Kerry.
As he neared the spot from which members of Vietnam Veterans Against the War were parting with a few of the trappings of their difficult past to help them face their future more squarely, I watched Kerry reach with his right hand into the breast pocket of his fatigue shirt. The hand emerged with several of the ribbons that most of the vets had been wearing that unique week of protest, much as they are worn on a uniform blouse.
There couldn't have been all that many decorations in his hand -- six or seven -- because he made a closed fist around his collection with ease as he waited his turn. I recall him getting stopped by one or two wounded vets in wheelchairs, clearly worried that they wouldn't be able to get their stuff over the looming fence, who gave him a few more decorations. Kerry says he doesn't remember this.
It is true that Kerry was one of the veterans group's "leaders," but in this eclectic, aggressively individualistic collection of people who had been through a pointless war, there were no privileges of rank. Kerry was in the middle of a line of perhaps 1,000 guys -- only a third or even less of the total who had assembled on the Washington Mall that astonishing week.
At the spot where the men were symbolically letting go of their participation in the war, the authorities had erected a wood and wire fence that prevented them from getting close to the front of the US Capitol, and Kerry paused for several seconds. We had been talking for days -- about the war, politics, the veterans' demonstration -- but I could tell Kerry was upset to the point of anguish, and I decided to leave him be; his head was down as he approached the fence quietly.
In a voice I doubt I would have heard had I not been so close to him, Kerry said, as I recall vividly, "There is no violent reason for this; I'm doing this for peace and justice and to try to help this country wake up once and for all."
With that, he didn't really throw his handful toward the statue of John Marshall, America's first chief justice. Nor did he drop the decorations. He sort of lobbed them, and then walked off the stage.
Some people have written secondhand accounts of that day stating that Kerry at that moment also threw "medals" that had been given to him by a couple of vets who were not there. I remember Kerry doing that later in the day after the event had broken up. He was in the company, for part of that time, of a small group of Gold Star Mothers (who had lost sons in the war). In addition to the events involving the military decorations, the veterans also held a tree-planting ceremony near the Capitol and attended congressional hearings on civilian casualties of the conflict.
From what I could observe firsthand about Friday, April 23, 1971, Kerry did not make even the slightest effort to pretend that he was throwing all of his military decorations over that fence. He did what he did in plain view, and in my case in the view of someone close enough to kick him in the shins.
It was clear to me that Kerry had arrived here with only the ribbons he wore on his shirt -- which, by the way, were referred to as "medals" by the late Stuart Symington of Missouri, one of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee members present for his famous antiwar statement.
While the idea of turning back decorations had been talked about prior to that week, there was no clear plan when the veterans arrived. The night before, the men had had a long, loud argument about whether to throw their stuff or simply place it on a long table in front of the Capitol. I watched Kerry argue for the less dramatic approach and lose.
It was clear from our conversations back then and ever since that Kerry made no distinction among his various decorations, though others have. Some in the military don't either. I remember once asking my father (who was awarded a Bronze Star in the Pacific during World War II), what he called the ribbon and lapel ornament he received in addition to the star; he said they were all the Bronze Star.
I have always found the political junk served up by Kerry's detractors to be undignified as well as largely inaccurate.
I write now because the political junk is much higher profile now, though no less misleading -- and not, by the way, because in her fourth job in the public arena, my daughter just joined Kerry's staff. I just happened to be there that long-ago day. I saw what happened and heard what Kerry said and know what he meant. The truth happens to be with him.
posted on May 5, 2004 03:20:55 PM new
Now that distraction is out of the way.
Bear, As you pointed out on another thread, "The purple heart is the most commonly awarded commendation in the military, they are given out by the handful. So plentiful that they are considered a joke by those who have them and it doesn't mean a thing. All it proves is that you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Until you have actual knowledge & experience in military life your opinions are only useful as fertilizer"
John Kerry never made a big deal out of purple hearts either...it's just a part of his military record. So, I wonder about your obsessive focus on this...as you call it "fertilizer"
And how do you feel about the other medals that were awarded to Kerry...the Bronze and the Silver Star? Surely you must agree that those medals are impressive.
posted on May 5, 2004 03:28:41 PM new
......sorry was cleaning the bathrooms, the maid didn't show up .....
thank you Helen, for finding that.. sounds like the guy really likes and admires Kerry. And the fact that his daughter is working on the Kerry campaign, the whole family does.
Well, some don't want Kerry as Pres. some do. Some want Bush, some don't.
There is going to be this sparring all the way to Nov. its going to get old.
I now, do not care about eithers past. What I want to see is a President who is willing to 'stay the course' (sorry, is that Kerry's phrase) and for ME, that is George Bush. For you? It looks like its going to be Kerry. Sorry Dean didn't make it, from what I remember (and NO HELEN, I am not putting words in your mouth) you wanted Dean. I personally thought Lieberman would be good, really. So its a split. whaddya do?
__________________________________ In cyberspace, you can't hear a liberal scream.
posted on May 5, 2004 03:42:11 PM new
"There's only one problem with this report-- the doctor who makes these claims is not the treating doctor for the wound in question"
According to the LA Times, the person who signed the form in question was a medical corpman working under the doctor who is being quoted and who removed the splinter with his trusty tweezers.
Looks like out of the 100 people in the unit, 97 seem to be besmirching the great one's honor and 3 seem to be rabid defenders.
posted on May 5, 2004 03:46:57 PM new
Bear, you're forgetting about the history of the leader you already have in charge. How can you go after Kerry when Bush has this in his history?
SERIAL LIAR BUSH FINALLY GETS CAUGHT
By Bill Gallagher
"Many of these politicians have put exclamation marks where we put question marks." -- Former Chief UN Weapons Inspector Hans Blix.
That astute remark came in an interview in which Dr. Blix also offered his belief that President Bush's re-election campaign would contort and distort his reports on Saddam Hussein's arsenal of weapons to justify the brutal and unnecessary war in Iraq. Asked if the Bush crowd would attempt to alter the meaning of his findings, Dr. Blix said flat-out, "I'm sure they will."
People in the Bush administration belittled and vilified Blix and his work in Iraq. Time has shown the value of his efforts, and his assessments of Iraq's capabilities were honest and forthright and far more accurate than anything that the Bush administration claimed with dramatic exclamation marks.
The simplicity of Blix's political punctuation insight is intriguing and most instructive when applied to just about anything that comes out of the Bush administration. Whatever the president and his minions declare with a great exclamation mark, just apply a question mark and you'll be much closer to the truth.
Last May, Bush told Polish reporters, "We found the weapons of mass destruction!"
Really?
Those phantom weapons, of course, were the primary justification for the war, and each day more Americans and Iraqis die because of the bogus claims. His cockiness went even farther when he assured the Polish journalists that "we'll find more weapons as time goes on!"
When?
The evidence Bush pointed to at the time was "mobile labs to build biological weapons."
He dismissed critics who questioned his assertions and said, "For those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We have found them!"
Where are they?
Eight months after George W. made those bold claims, the world now knows they were simply not true. The evidence Bush was so certain about turned out to be trailers used to store helium for weather balloons.
The ploy now is to blame intelligence agencies and lying Iraqi defectors for the bad information, but let's never forget the words Bush and his cadre of warmongers used to convince the American people war was imperative for our national survival.
The words and arguments were loaded with exclamation marks, never a question mark. There was no doubt, only certainty, about Saddam Hussein's weapons arsenal and his evil intentions toward the United States. The threat from Iraq was "immediate," "significant," the "most dangerous threat of our time," "real and dangerous" and, yes, "imminent."
CIA Director George Tenet made a belated attempt to distance his agency from the notion that Iraq posed an "imminent threat." Remember the use of the word "imminent" came right out of the White House communications office and the flacks there used it several times. It was deliberate and calculated and had the desired effect of scaring the hell out of people. It was also a monumental lie!
On NBC's "Meet the Press," Bush told Tim Russert, "I got an honorable discharge and I did show up in Alabama!" Is that so? Bush also claimed his military records had been released and scrutinized during the 2000 campaign. Six days later, the White House released the records the president said had already been reviewed four years ago.
The more than 300 pages of records provide no more documentation about why Bush skipped months of required drills in Alabama and Houston between May 1972 and May 1973 and how he got away with it. Bush's superior in Alabama says he never saw him. The White House claims payroll records and evidence that he might have had his teeth cleaned once in Alabama prove he fulfilled his military duties.
But another pilot who was stationed at Dannery Air National Guard in Montgomery says he never saw Bush there and he was actually looking for him. Bob Mintz told the Memphis Flyer he was looking forward to meeting the young pilot from Texas who got a transfer to Alabama so he could work on the U.S. Senate race of one of his daddy's pals.
Mintz said he assumed that Bush "changed his mind and went somewhere else." The folksy Mintz, now a FedEx pilot, said the Texan would have stood out. "There's no way we wouldn't have noticed a strange rooster in the hen house, since we were looking for him," Mintz insists. He notes that pilots and their crews were tight. "If he did any flying at all, on whatever kind of craft, that would have involved a great number of supportive personnel. It takes a lot of people to get a plane into the air. But nobody I can think of remembers him."
There were only about 25 pilots at the Alabama base. Mintz said, "I talked to one of my buddies the other day and asked if he could remember Bush at drill at any time and he said, 'Naw, ol' George wasn't at the Pit, either.'"
The "Pit" was The Snake Pit, a favorite local watering hole for the squadron's pilots, who gathered there after hours. Imagine, if you possibly can, George W., in his admitted wild drinking days, skipping cocktails with the guys!
After years of searching, the Republicans finally produced some retired National Guard lieutenant colonel who claims he did see Bush on the base. The problem is, the old officer placed Bush in Alabama when he was assigned to a base in Texas. Nice try!
Far more significant than Bush's absence from drills is his failure to undergo a physical examination required for pilots. The records state that "failing to accomplish annual medical examination 1st Lt. George W. Bush is suspended from flying status."
Why has he never explained why he skipped his physical? Bush's records show he thought of "making flying a lifetime pursuit," but after the taxpayers spent $1 million training him to fly, he gets himself grounded. Explain that.
Two retired National Guard generals told the Boston Globe that "it was unheard of for a military aviator to miss an annual flight physical" and that regulations would have required an investigation of Bush's failure to show up for his physical.
"I did my duty. I was honorably discharged!" Bush proclaimed, as though that proves anything. Keep this in mind. Convicted D.C. sniper and serial killer John Muhammad served in the Louisiana National Guard from 1978 to 1985. He was twice court-martialed, once for striking an officer, another time for stealing. He was AWOL and spent time in the jail. Muhammad left the National Guard with an honorable discharge.
George W. brought this on himself with that shameless (and expensive for the taxpayers) aircraft landing stunt. He drew attention to his military record and deserves all the heat he's now feeling. It is refreshing to see many in the big, corporate media who were literally gushing over Bush's flight suit photo op finally asking the tough questions and giving George W.'s murky military service the attention it richly merited long ago.
George W. Bush was eager to send young men and women to die in Iraq for a war of choice. When he had a chance to fight, he chose to serve in the National Guard. He was lax, at best, in fulfilling his obligations there. His entire life reflects a pattern of privilege and protection from responsibility.
"We continue to build prosperity and economic security for our people!" We often hear that glowing exclamation from the president. What about the millions of jobs we've lost during his term? How's it feel to be the first president since Herbert Hoover to preside over a net loss of jobs during your term of office?
What about the record $500 billion deficit and fiscal trainwreck conductor Bush has us on? What about his reckless spending and refusal to include the cost of war in his budget?
When he spoke about "economic security," Bush must have missed the fact that the U.S. trade deficit reached a record $490 billion, and that translates directly into the loss of more jobs.
Robert Scott, a trade scholar at the Economic Policy Institute, tells The New York Times, "As a consequence of the trade deficit people are being pushed out of well-paying jobs with benefits in manufacturing and into poor-paying service jobs often with no benefits."
But that's a good thing, according to Bush's top economic adviser. Sending U.S. jobs to Mexico, China and India is positive for our economy, according to Gregory Mankiw, who chairs George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers.
Mankiw trumpeted the value of the exodus of U.S. jobs, saying, "Outsourcing is a growing phenomenon, but it's something that we should realize is probably a plus for the economy in the long run."
Tell that to the 2.8 million people who've lost manufacturing jobs since Bush took office. Mankiw quickly back-peddled, whining that his comments were "misinterpreted." That pitiful, lie-spewing automaton, White House spokesman Scott McClellan, defended Mankiw and blew off calls for his resignation. "That's kind of laughable," McClellan said. "Our economic team is doing a great job helping the president work to strengthen the economy even more. The president is committed to creating jobs here at home!" The only thing laughable in all this is the Bush administration's disgraceful record in creating jobs.
George W. Bush has made the world a far more dangerous place, we are stuck in a bloody mess in Iraq and our nation is less secure! George W. Bush's tax cuts benefit the richest Americans at the expense of the middle class and corporations are paying the lowest taxes since the 1930s! George W. Bush should be run out of office on a rail!
Will the American people wake up and send him packing?
Bill Gallagher, a Peabody Award winner, is a former Niagara Falls city councilman who now covers Detroit for Fox2 News. His e-mail address is [email protected].
Nearthesea, I often said that any Democratic candidate other than Lieberman would be a move in the right direction. I did like the way that Dean was able to energize the democratic party. Since he was the leading candidate for awhile the neocons here were attacking him at every opportunity and of course, I defended him. So you may have the impression that Dean was my only choice but that's not the case.. The new president will come with a new administration and that's what we desperately need. We'll be rid of Ashcroft, Rove, Cheney and Bush all in one fell swoop!
posted on May 5, 2004 05:18:23 PM new
NTS - kerry hasn't been able to decide if he threw his medals or his ribbons.......latest is they're the same.
---------------
I LOVE it bear.....hope this gets out to more people so they too can enjoy a good laugh.
-----------
You have that right, desquirrel.
--------------------
gosh KD - Wasn't it you that I read was calling for people not posting links of other people's words....why didn't they speak for themselves....or weren't they capable of doing so? Maybe I mis-read that....I'll go re-check what you said.
edited to add: Yep....I took what you said in your first three posts to this thread correctly. Changed your mind now?
posted on May 5, 2004 06:02:40 PM new
All this time when addressing Helen, I knew the "handle" Helen was just that a "handle", never did I until now realize that Hanoi Jane had assumed the roll of Helen.
Never the less.
Helen, your ignorance is forgiven, since you know so much about "Duty, Honor & Country" and camaraderie among fighting men at war. Tell us again, how many Purple Hearts you won. What do you know of heroics.
Redmond
There's only one problem with this report-- the doctor who makes these claims is not the treating doctor for the wound in question.
You don't know that because Kerry refuses to release his medical records.
The records submitted for the 1st heart do not include these medical records as the medical records are entirely separate from the personnel records.
If Kerry were the HERO you WISH HIM TO BE he wouldn't have deserted his men, wouldn't have his Commanding officers to call his a "loose cannon", and wouldn't have SOLD OUT the Amrerican fighting men to a communist based protest group and wouldn't be using those "hearts" as a stepping stone for his political career.
It's really supprising he wasn't fragged but that may be the real reason he left VietNam so soon.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on May 5, 2004 06:50:35 PM new
Linda, I hardly ever post articles but this particular one seemed fitting. Did you read it? It's a brief summary of Bush's main lies. To pick on someone that hasn't lied as much as Bush has is hyprocritical when trying to prove a point.
posted on May 5, 2004 06:56:31 PM new
Oh...I see...different rules for different players.
If you agree with the persons position they can give links, post long posts, and even highlight some of the words and no one mentions it/complains about it/makes comments about their abilities.
But if you don't agree with the position of the person doing the same....then it's really annoying and should be changed.
posted on May 5, 2004 07:08:00 PM new
I often said that any Democratic candidate other than Lieberman
Helen, Why not Lieberman? Was he too 'conservative' for you? He is a Democrat, heck, he was Gores choice for V.P.
I wouldn't have voted for Lieberman, but if I was a 'liberal Democrat' he certainly would be my choice. He seems stable, knows his issues (if anyone would give him a chance) is a very calm person. (unlike the other candidates)
__________________________________ In cyberspace, you can't hear a liberal scream.
posted on May 5, 2004 07:10:12 PM new
Huh? I said I wished people would put what they've read into their own words instead of posting all these long articles. You can look up every post I've ever made and see that I've only posted articles about 10 times since I joined, so I don't think I would qualify. It was just a suggestion.
Do you feel you need to link everything to provide justification for your thoughts??
I doubt she meant that we should never post links at all.
Kraft seldom posts a link to support her point of view and if you notice she didn't take it upon herself to bold within each paragraph several times and make it difficult to read.
Besides, Krafty's ONE link has more value in it than about 1000 or so links that a few others have posted in the last month or so.
posted on May 5, 2004 10:46:53 PM newThe new president will come with a new administration and that's what we desperately need.
What will we get Kerry, who stands for abortion, partial birth abortion. Fonda who is a traitor and Fuzzy Wuzzy.
My hustand got 10 Purple Hearts last Saturday. He hasn't been in a war since 1962. Can anyone guess how?
posted on May 6, 2004 05:37:30 AM new
Kerry is a known flip-flopper.. President Bush sticks to the path...
I wouldn't trust Kerry to empty a latrine...
Of course the Baghdad 3 support Kerry... what better way to disgrace the US...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
posted on May 6, 2004 07:02:57 AM newPresident Bush sticks to the path...
Bush "sticks to the path" like Michael Jackson sticks to adult women.
I remember the Bush campaign path stating the military is not for nation building and would not be used for nation building.
I remember the Bush path to Iraq was filled with WOMDs.
Then the path was to get rid of Saddam.
Then the path was to bring democracy and freedom to Iraq.
Now the path is to stabilize Iraq and leave.
I remember Bush stating that the "path" of American freedom comes from god, not the constitution path he is swore to uphold.
Then we have Bush's nut job Attorney General that tries to stem freedoms at every corner.
Then we have Bush's path to "serve" his country during time of war by getting into a National Guard unit that could not go to Vietnam and was over staffed when he amazingly got in.
Then he went on a mystery path in the NG where no one could find him for a year. If your father isn't rich and powerful, its called the desertion path.
If Bush is known for anything, he is known for changing paths.
