posted on May 13, 2004 04:41:23 PM new
Hello All, now that we have all looked at low ranking American troops torturing Iraq prisoners. My question is how many of you think these low ranking troops came up with this idea all on their own? Or are these troops going to be the fall guys and gals for higher ups.
posted on May 13, 2004 04:46:49 PM new
Good question Bigpeepa. I saw the girl that's in all the photos (last name is England - forget her first), and she doesn't accept any responsibility, from what I saw. She said she was told by a higher-up to pose for these pictures.
posted on May 13, 2004 04:56:46 PM new
Yeah, I agree with the lefties. The ones who abused the prisoners are scapegoats and victims:
LEASH GAL'S SEX PIX
May 13, 2004 -- WASHINGTON - Shocking shots of sexcapades involving Pfc. Lynndie England were among the hundreds of X-rated photos and videos from the Abu Ghraib prison scandal shown to lawmakers in a top-secret Capitol conference room yesterday.
"She was having sex with numerous partners. It appeared to be consensual," said a lawmaker who saw the photos.
And, videos showed the disgraced soldier - made notorious in a photo showing her holding a leash looped around an Iraqi prisoner's neck - engaged in graphic sex acts with other soldiers in front of Iraqi prisoners, Pentagon officials told NBC Nightly News.
"Almost everybody was naked all the time," another lawmaker said.
Many members of Congress left the 45-minute viewing session early, thereby missing the porno performance by England, but there were enough other images of torture, humiliation and intimidation to sicken anyone.
"It was pretty disgusting, not what you'd expect from Americans," said Sen. Norm Coleman (R-Minn.). "There was lots of sexual stuff - not of the Iraqis, but of our troops."
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who also characterized the photos as "disgusting," agreed, noting, "It's hard to believe that this actually is taking place in a military facility."
The shocking photos and videos, provided on computer disks by Pentagon officials, showed attack dogs snarling at cowering prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners tied together on the floor, senators revealed as they emerged from the heavily guarded conference room.
"It was significantly worse than I had anticipated," said Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore). "Take the worst case and multiply it over several times."
"I don't know how these people got into our Army," said Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-Colo.), who reported seeing "several pictures of Iraqi women who were disrobed or putting their shirts up."
Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) described the images as "more detailed and more graphic than the pictures that have been released publicly," referring to the disturbing photos of Iraqis being abused at Abu Ghraib prison that surfaced two weeks ago, and which Islamic terrorists claim led to this week's revenge beheading of American Nick Berg.
"Normally, I side with disclosure and openness, but in this case, these photos are evidence," Schumer said, indicating that he favors keeping the lid on the alarming pictures, as Vice President Dick Cheney and Sen. John Warner (R-Va.) have urged.
Rep. Jane Harman (Calif.), ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said she was most appalled by a video of a handcuffed prisoner beating his head against a wall in an apparent bid to knock himself unconscious to escape abuse.
In another video clip, she said, a group of men were shown masturbating.
Before the pictures of England's sex romps were shown to Congress, the 21-year-old reservist from West Virginia tried to portray herself as a reluctant participant who was just following orders.
"I didn't really, I mean, want to be in any pictures," England told a Denver TV station.
"I was instructed by persons in higher rank to 'stand there, hold this leash, look at the camera,' and they took picture for PsyOps [psychological operations]," she told KCNC-TV.
England acknowledged "it was kind of weird" when she was photographed smiling, with a cigarette in her mouth, as she leaned forward and pointed at the genitals of a naked, hooded Iraqi at Abu Ghraib prison.
England has refused to identify who gave her the orders, saying only that they came from "persons in my chain of command."
England faces a military court-martial that includes charges such as conspiracy to maltreat prisoners and assault consummated by battery.
She could face punishment ranging from a reprimand to more than 15 years in prison.
posted on May 13, 2004 05:02:47 PM new
I think its a combination of many factors. Psychologists have known for a long time that when people are placed in a position like that of prison guards that they will likely become sadistic. Since this is common knowledge, the guards should have been well trained and supervised. Instead, there was little training and no supervision. In fact, there is some evidence that they were encouraged by superior officers to commit these horrific acts. So, no...I would not scapegoat the troops. I believe that the fault lies very high in the Bush administration.
posted on May 13, 2004 05:10:33 PM new
Typical liberal response, not holding people responsible for their actions. And so the abusers are actually the victims!
"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
posted on May 13, 2004 05:16:13 PM new
Ms. England should be punished along with her superiors who are responsible for her and anyone else in or taking the pictures. She appeared like she was enjoying it all, unless her superiors also told her to "act like she was having fun", which I doubt. I also doubt she would have been punished by her superiors if she refused to be in those pictures, unless she was the only woman there. (??)
posted on May 13, 2004 05:19:35 PM new
The responsibility should be shared with those who failed, either intentionally or not, to plan for the welfare of prisoners of war. To leave these individuals untouchable would be very wrong.
posted on May 13, 2004 06:02:19 PM new
Near, don't you think soldiers are a different breed? They are so finely tuned to do their job that their real feelings are sometimes supressed. This can lead to feelings of pressure to do things you might normally not do, and to act out in agressive ways you normally wouldn't do. Whatever the reason for their behaviour, they should be punished imo.
posted on May 13, 2004 06:20:27 PM new
Yes, the guilty should be punished, let there be inquists, hearings and trials, but all this psycho babble about expierments in prisons is bs.
__________________________________ In cyberspace, you can't hear a liberal scream.
"Taguba said that when control of the prison was turned over to military intelligence officials, they had authority over the military police who were guarding prisoners. But Stephen Cambone, the Pentagon's undersecretary for intelligence, said that was incorrect, that authority for the handling of detainees had remained with the MPs. "
What is going on here is that Taguba is giving an honest and faithful account of what happened. He says that the militiary intelligence guys got command control of the MPs. Cambone knows that this is against army regulations and should be denied, not openly admitted. Either way, Taguba is right that this is what happened.
Juan Cole
posted on May 13, 2004 06:54:51 PM newQuestion: How Would Sadaam Have Handled This?
Sadaam would have put suspects into sexually compromising positions..
Sadaam would have murdered suspects and videotaped them.
Sadaam WOULD NOT have taken a knife and while four others held him down, have applied a six to eight inch knife to the neck of the victim and sawed off his head!
posted on May 13, 2004 08:32:35 PM new
For all you people that call me a lefty and liberal. I enjoy being a open minded lefty liberal its a whole lot better then being a nothing.
posted on May 14, 2004 06:12:45 AM new
who is that lady soldier who was rescued from the iraqui hopsital??
i heard there are some pictures of her carousing with her colleagues .
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
