posted on May 20, 2004 10:29:43 AM new
I'm not sure how it works in the U.S., but here, if you have children, you get a monthly baby bonus check for each child and major tax deductions at the end of the year. Also, If you have zero or a zillion kids, you pay the same in property taxes (to schools) - 60% of which goes to the local schools (I'm in the country so there's only 2 public and one high school.)
This is my problem. I chose not to have children so not only do I pay these families that choose to have multiple children, I also pay for them to keep having them. To be honest, it infuriates me. Are things the same in the U.S.?
[ edited by kraftdinner on May 20, 2004 10:34 AM ]
posted on May 20, 2004 12:11:53 PM new
I don't believe we have a "baby bonus check" for children, but those with children do get deductions on ttheir Income Tax.
We do pay the same taxes with or without kids.
I don't have children myself. However, I have no problem with paying taxes for schooling. As I see it, I am investing in my community's future, and therefore in my own welfare.
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We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on May 20, 2004 12:33:41 PM new
I hope this isn't too far off topic, but the Romans also decided to give incentives to "Romans" to have more children.
They realized at one point that their numbers were being usurped by the influx of foreigners and slaves.
It didn't work for the Romans.
US tax breaks for kids have actually been declining for the last half century.
The current $1250 per dependent deduction should be over $5000 adjusted for inflation since the 1950s.
posted on May 20, 2004 01:45:40 PM new
Hey Kraft
Yes we pay for schools whether we have children or not. (also roads etc, even if you never drive or get into a car) And taxes do go to welfare, if that is what you mean?
Can you elaborate more on a 'baby bonus check' Sounds strange..... Say a family in Canada makes $50k or more, they have 2 children, do they still get this bonus? Doesn't seem right.
Wait till your buddies read this. You are trying to degrade the evolution of a socialist Utopia. Because you don't have any kids, you are more in a position to contribute to society. Who the heck are you to deny people's kids the best education they can get?
Next thing you know, you'll be demanding "extra" police protection because all the cops are in the neighborhoods that pay the least.
posted on May 20, 2004 05:11:23 PM new "You are trying to degrade the evolution of a socialist Utopia"
What a dumb statement that is desquirrel. Do you consider the use of property tax to fund education, the evolution of a socialist utopia?
If you read Kraftdinner's comment carefully, you will see that her objection is to people who have more children than they can afford without regard to the burden that it may cause to other members of the community.
posted on May 20, 2004 05:28:22 PM new
If you read Kraftdinner's comment carefully, you will see that her objection is to people who have more children than they can afford without regard to the burden that it may cause to other members of the community.
Helen, where do you think the welfare money comes from in the U.S.?
Well, I've heard people here b*tch about having to pay for the 'welfare moms'.
Also, she didn't really elaborate at all on who gets this 'baby bonus check' is it like the welfare system in the U.S.? or does the Canadian gov't just send out checks to people with children regardless of their income. Do you know how it works? I don't.
posted on May 20, 2004 07:58:47 PM new
I live in Michigan on the Ontario border. In the past, I have heard Canadain women talk about their "Mother's Allowance" that was given to them by the government. I ask them what that was about, and that I have never heard of such a thing.
To know more about this, go to google.com and type in the words, Mother's Allowance Canada. There will be many pages on it.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on May 21, 2004 12:52:39 PM new
"What a dumb statement that is desquirrel. Do you consider the use of property tax to fund education, the evolution of a socialist utopia?"
No. I just find it absolutely hysterical that someone who wants government retirement money, free meds, the PHd for illegal aliens program or any other wacky "we're/they're" entitled program should complain about paying for general education, of all things.
posted on May 21, 2004 03:08:33 PM new
I can't speak for anyone else but I haven't complained about paying for general education. In fact, funding for education should be given top priority. And, education should be available to every child living in this country regardless of the immigration status of their parents.
posted on May 21, 2004 03:13:42 PM new
Nor have I, in fact I routinely vote to increase my property taxes in order to stop the fiscal hemorrhage our local school districts are suffering.
I do this as schools or lack of schools directly affect our future as a society.
posted on May 21, 2004 07:10:37 PM new
I have never complained about taxes for schools, my children had the benefit of them for years. I haven't had children in school in many years, but I won't go voting for any property tax increase
posted on May 21, 2004 08:27:28 PM new
The small amounts added on to various parcel taxes allow the schools to continue or in some cases restart many extra curricular activities (sports, music etc.) which have been discontinued due to the budget crunch. I do not have any children but feel that society as a whole (myself included) benefits from these programs and support them wherever possible.
Lack of education is the root cause of most problems including poverty and crime. Any increase in taxes that may contribute to better funding for education will benefit everyone.
posted on May 22, 2004 05:52:04 AM new
Doesn't all of this raise the issue of whether the Federal government should be responsible for education as opposed to the states? How about a flat amount of Federal dollars to the states for each registered child?
posted on May 22, 2004 06:55:22 AM new
Your question is a good one. Federal help was the goal of the No Child Left Behind program but unfortunately, after the states struggled to provide the testing which cost millions, the promised funds to remedy the situation and bring all students up to standard was not forthcoming.
Hopefully, someone with teaching experience will offer their opinion on this topic.
posted on May 22, 2004 10:26:47 AM new
Sorry for not explaining myself. I don't mind paying money to schools at all, but with 60% of our property taxes going to 3 schools, year after year after year, these schools should be gold-plated by now, but they're dumps. I pay the same as Jane Doe down the road who has 5 kids, except she gets Baby Bonus cheques for her children to off-set the taxes she pays, so in effect, she doesn't pay anything to educate her children, but I do and don't even have children. Why should I or anyone else that doesn't have children be penalized like this? - that's my beef.
posted on May 22, 2004 10:26:50 AM new
We've tested the bejeezus out of our kids this year. We've jumped through all the hoops nclb requires. We're state ranked as an "Excelling" school, the highest rank. 14 out of the 20 certified staff at my school are state recognized Master Teachers, myself included in case you were wondering.
And yet, just as many kids will receive 'F' grades as last year, at least in my classroom and others I'm aware of. Grades are based on how a child performs in my class. If a kid can't pass a real math test, I'm not going to give him a passing grade just because he met grade level on the Stanford Achievement Test...Just as many will read below grade level as before. The same kids who have refused to do any work since well before nclb will continue to take up space in classrooms. The parents who refuse to show up for conferences since well before nclb will continue to be no-shows.
There will be no raise in base pay next year. My contract, which I signed and turned in yesterday, has had the same salary on it for the last 3 years. I will receive no material benefit for being a Master Teacher with 2 graduate degrees whose class met and exceeded nclb standards.
No kids left behind? What a joke....
NCLB is nothing more than obscenely expensive window dressing. Nobody knows the needs of kids in a particular school better than local educators and elected school boards, especially not some beady-eyed necktie wearers in Washington or the state capital.
As far as the retirees who want to wall themselves off in Sun City or some other fortress, and don't want to pay for the education of today's kids, I've always wondered if they'd be willing to give up all their senior discounts so that money could go to education? I resent paying for their discounts on everything from car insurance to breakfast at Denny's.
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When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey
posted on May 22, 2004 10:36:08 AM new
kraft, I don't think we get baby bonus checks here per se, but I have heard that it benefits those on some form of welfare to have more kids. I guess they get more food stamps and bigger payments. I have a friend who has adopted 4 children, all from the same woman in Montana, who had her kids apparently for that reason alone...got all kinds of extras from the state while pregnant and when the kids were infants, then just gave em away, like old clothes.
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When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey
posted on May 22, 2004 11:04:47 AM new
You know Prof, you are surely one of the most dedicated persons here - to your farm, your family, your school - I wish I could give you a big hug right now.
Teachers here make around $75K and up, with tenure after so many years. My uncle is a physics & math Prof. at the Univ. of Manitoba and just retired with a big tenure pkg., so when I hear about the low paying teacher jobs in the U.S., I'm not surprised at the problems being faced.
And about Baby Bonus cheques - these were issued around war time. Because Canada wanted the population to increase, women that had children were issued monthly cheques. Canada has been trying to end this but the flack from mothers is too overwhelming so they whimp out.
posted on May 22, 2004 11:36:45 AM new
*blushes*...thanks KD, I just try to do what needs to be done.
75K, even in Canadian dollars is quite a bit more than most teachers make here. I think my district's entry level salary is 23,000...that for a bachelor's degree and no experience. Then, on that money, a new teacher has to turn around and begin paying college tuition and taking classes in his or her "spare" time, as a Master's degree is required before the next certificate renewal.
I got my degrees many years ago, before tuitions had skyrocketed. I don't know how these young teachers can pull it off without going into deeper debt, with our Universities nearby charging over 300 dollars per semester hour and even more for online coursework..
Our state retirement system is in good shape though, and my pension in a few years will be almost equal to my salary. Additionally, teachers are now allowed to return to the classroom after retirement and collect salaries as well as their pensions with no penalty, so that makes it pretty attractive to stay in the game after you've reached retirement age. Average teacher retirement age here is 54, so it's not all bad...
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When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey
posted on May 22, 2004 11:37:28 AM new
p.s. It's a ranch
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When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey
