posted on June 1, 2004 01:50:35 PM new
Monday, May 31, 2004 10:53 p.m. EDT
Kerry 'Flips Off' Vietnam Vet
Democratic senator - and certain presidential nominee - John F. Kerry gave the middle finger to a Vietnam veteran at the Vietnam Memorial Wall on Memorial Day morning, NewsMax.com has learned.
Ted Sampley, a former Green Beret who served two full tours in Vietnam, spotted Kerry and his Secret Service detail at about 9:00 a.m. Monday morning at the Wall. Sampley walked up to Kerry, extended his hand and said, "Senator, I am Ted Sampley, the head of Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry, and I am here to escort you away from the Wall because you do not belong here."
At that point a Secret Service officer told Sampley to back away from Kerry. Sampley moved about 6 feet away and opened his jacket to reveal a HANOI JOHN T-shirt.
Kerry then began talking to a group of schoolchildren. Sampley then showed the T-shirt to the children and said, "Kerry does not belong at the Wall because he betrayed the brave soldiers who fought in Vietnam."
Just then Kerry - in front of the school children, other visitors and Secret Service agents - brazenly 'flashed the bird' at Sampley and then yelled out to everyone, "Sampley is a felon!"
Kerry was referring to an incident 12 years ago when Sampley confronted Sen. John McCain's chief aide, Mark Salter, in a Senate stairwell after McCain repeatedly offended POW families at a Senate POW hearing. Sampley, whose father-in-law at that time was MIA in Laos, followed Salter into the stairwell and, when they emerged, Salter had a bloody lip and a broken nose.
Sampley's group, Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry, has garnered huge national attention and has been featured in the New York Times, the Washington Post and on MSNBC's "Scarborough Country." Tens of thousands of Vietnam vets have registered their opposition to Kerry through Sampley's group.
Clearly Sampley has gotten under Kerry's skin once again.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on June 1, 2004 02:13:47 PM new
Bear - does this mean that you endorse the completely classless and harrassing actions of Sampley at that if continually pushed you would not act accordingly? This is an abusive criminal hutcase and it is quite telling that NewsMax would write an article slanted in his favor. Hell I'm surprised that they didn't accuse Salter of viciously running into his fist.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on June 1, 2004 02:30:35 PM new
It's just an example of Kerry showing his lack of poise & exibiting his single digit I.Q. Kerry accuses Ted Sampley of being a felon but when in fact Kerry himself has admitted war crimes where he killed innocent Vietnamese civilians.
Where is the proof Sampley has been convicted of assulting anyone.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on June 1, 2004 02:57:36 PM new
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-vietnam.html
Bear, You are misinformed about Kerry's statement before the Senate. He was there to represent the veterans of Vietnam who had admitted to war crimes.
You can read Kerry's testimony here...He begins by stating...
I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....
posted on June 1, 2004 05:54:29 PM new
I am highly suspicious of this article. Outside of NewsMax and a blog or two that took NewsMax's story as gospel, it doesn't appear anywhere else.
Despite one blogger's statement of According to Newsmax (You didn't think the AP was going to cover actual news, did you?), the fact is that if a politician at any level, much less one running for President & constantly in the spotlight, flipped a bird at anyone it would make the news everywhere. But there's not a whisper of it anywhere but NewsMax.
Atleast please try to quote credible sources, Bear.
BTW, in one respect I have to thank you. As a result of your post I did a little reading on Sampley. And discovered that he's a nutcase.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
Bunni, just because you don't approve of the source does not mean it didn't happen.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on June 2, 2004 07:19:48 PM new
Bear, the complete transcript of Kerry's testimony before the House Foreign Relations Committee, April 22, 1971. The transcript can be found here...
http://www.pbs.org/greatspeeches/timeline/j_kerry_s.html
Kerry did not say the words that you have linked to in the audio clip produced by "freepnet".
As I stated before, he began his testimony by saying,
Thank you very much, Senator Fulbright, Senator Javits, Senator Symington and Senator Pell.
I would like to say for the record, and also for the men sitting behind me who are also wearing the uniforms and their medals, that my sitting here is really symbolic. I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of a group of 1,000, which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table, they would be here and have the same kind of testimony. I would simply like to speak in general terms. I apologize if my statement is general because I received notification [only] yesterday that you would hear me, and, I am afraid, because of the injunction I was up most of the night and haven't had a great deal of chance to prepare.
I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago, in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis, with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit--the emotions in the room, and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.
They told stories that, at times, they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam,in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation. The term "winter soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine's in 1776, when he spoke of the "sunshine patriots," and "summertime soldiers" who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.
posted on June 2, 2004 07:41:53 PM new
The only problems with that picture are: a) that's not the same suit he was wearing Monday, according to other pictures of Kerry that day; b) it has been tampered with in such a way that one can't tell if he's flipping the bird or making another gesture entirely; and c) the alleged incident still hasn't been covered by anyone other than Sampley, a few blogs & Rush taking Sampley as gospel.
Even FoxNews, no Kerry fan by a long shot, has not reported this "news." No credible news source has at all. And no, Limbaugh is not credible, given some the the crap he spouts on a daily basis.
edited to insert "not"
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
[ edited by bunnicula on Jun 2, 2004 07:51 PM ]
I just found the source of your quote. It wasn't from the House Foreign Relations Committee testimony but from an interview on NBC's Meet the Press April, 17, 1971.
As described in the book, Tour of Duty by Dougllas Brinkley....
Poised and clearly confortable under the camera's glare, Kerry complained about how the Department of Defense was trying to undermine VVAW. When asked about the winter soldier phenomenom-- I.e., confessing to atrocities--Kerry boldly proclaimed that he had violated the understood law of warfare. "Yes, 'kerry told moderator Lawrence E. Spivak. "I committed the same kinds of atrocities as thousands of others in that I shot in free fire zones, fired .50-caliber machine bullets, used harass and interdiction fire, joined in search and destroy missions, and burned villages. All of the acts are contrary to the laws of the Geneva Convention, and all were ordered as written, established policies from the top down and the men who ordered this are war criminals."
posted on June 2, 2004 10:43:34 PM new
"Today, Senator Kerry appeals to veterans in his quest for the White House. He invokes his Vietnam service at every turn. But . . . how can he? If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service. Who can be proud of committing war crimes of the sort that Kerry recounted in his 1971 testimony? But if he is proud of his service today, perhaps it is because he always knew that his indictment in 1971 was a piece of political theater that he, an aspiring politician, exploited merely as a "good issue." If the latter is true, he should apologize to all the men who served in that war, for slandering them to advance his political fortunes."
— Mackubin Thomas Owens, a contributing editor to National Review Online, is a professor of strategy and force planning at the Naval War College in Newport, R.I. He led a Marine infantry platoon in Vietnam in 1968-69.
posted on June 2, 2004 10:49:09 PM new
Sounds to me like if Kerry did flip that guy off, he had it coming. His behavior doesn't sound like it will go very far in promoting his group's viewpoint. Telling children Kerry doesn't belong at the wall. What a moron. Last I heard, the wall was a public memorial open to all....this is just another example of how deeply divided this country really is...
___________________________________
When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey
posted on June 3, 2004 12:28:54 PM new
Helen your defense of Kerry is admirable in spite of your lack of military experience and underrstanding.
All of us that served in Vietnam knew of free fire zones.
Yet as every other combat participant in Vietnam knew, the crazy rules of that war demanded that we obtain radio clearance from higher authority before we could fire on the enemy. The enemy often escaped as we waited for clearance. Dangerous areas of constant enemy infiltration were declared free-fire zones, meaning we had the freedom to use our own judgment on when to fire. Anyone who intentionally killed non-combatants, whether in a free-fire zone or not, would be guilty of a war crime. Any officer who knew of and did not stop such action would be derelict in his duty at a minimum.
As every other combat participant in Vietnam knew, harassment and interdiction fire is an accepted practice of warfare to fire artillery or other weapons at known or suspected enemy positions to interrupt their sleep and otherwise make the enemy’s life miserable. That does not in any way mean intentionally killing non-combatants
As every other combat participant in Vietnam knew, search and destroy missions were exercises in finding the infiltrating enemy by inducing them to fire on us, then striking and destroying them. That does not in any way mean intentionally killing non-combatants as Kerry has admitted doing.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on June 3, 2004 12:33:54 PM new
Two words: Mai Lai
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on June 3, 2004 01:02:51 PM newHelen your defense of Kerry is admirable in spite of your lack of military experience and underrstanding. All of us that served in Vietnam knew of free fire zones. Yet as every other combat participant in Vietnam knew...
Well said Bear. Your response directly to helen appears heartfelt and well thought out. Unfortunately, the correct use of apostrophes and flawless spelling in the above post leads to the conclusion that the words are not yours. Why don't you give credit to the actual author of that statement?
"An Open Letter to John Kerry"
prepared by someone interestingly enough called "Beartracks", apparently associated with VVAJK, your mentors.
There's no excuse for plagiarism. It makes you look like you don't have any ideas of your own.
___________________________________
When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey
[ edited by profe51 on Jun 3, 2004 01:03 PM ]
posted on June 3, 2004 02:18:48 PM new
Bear, you don't need to resort to copying someone elses words to reply to me.
"Helen your defense of Kerry is admirable in spite of your lack of militaryexperience and underrstanding."
"All of us that served in Vietnam knew of free fire zones."
"Yet as every other combat participant in Vietnam knew, the crazy rules of that war demanded that we obtain radio clearance from higher authority before we could fire on the enemy. The enemy often escaped as we waited for clearance. Dangerous areas of constant enemy infiltration were declared free-fire zones, meaning we had the freedom to use our own judgment on when to fire. Anyone who intentionally killed non-combatants, whether in a free-fire zone or not, would be guilty of a war crime. Any officer who knew of and did not stop such action would be derelict in his duty at a minimum."
"As every other combat participant in Vietnam knew, harassment and interdiction fire is an accepted practice of warfare to fire artillery or other weapons at known or suspected enemy positions to interrupt their sleep and otherwise make the enemy’s life miserable. That does not in any way mean intentionally killing non-combatants"
"As every other combat participant in Vietnam knew, search and destroy missions were exercises in finding the infiltrating enemy by inducing them to fire on us, then striking and destroying them. That does not in any way mean intentionally killing non-combatants as Kerry has admitted doing."
posted on June 3, 2004 06:56:15 PM new
Whether my words or someone else's, makes no difference. Those were rules to be obeyed.
Speaking from experience HELEN, those were the rules we lived & died by in Vietnam.
I know for a fact I never fired into a free fire zone at anyone that was unarmed, I also never fired on a wounded unarmed enemy combatant. (also known a Charlie, VC, Cong or NVA), unlike Kerry who had admitted to chasing and killing an UNARMED WOUNDED VC. That was a war atrocity that KERRY admitted to. In case you conveniently forgot, "Kerry beached his boat & carrying a M16, chased into the village a wounded unarmed VC that had fired a B-40 rocket at his boat. After catching & killing the VC, Kerry returned to his boat".
And if I'm not mistaken he was awarded a Silver Star for those actions?
Right, get a medal for committing a atrocity..
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on June 4, 2004 05:55:05 AM new
Bear, I don't doubt for a second that you never fired into a free fire zone at anyone or that you never fired on a wounded enemy in Vietnam or anywhere else.
Kerry's bravery stands. Unpatriotic attempts such as yours to denigrate war medals while using someone elses words as your own is pathetic to say the least.
posted on June 4, 2004 08:24:05 AM new
helen - That takes the cake....calling a Vet unpatriotic and 'wrapping' yourself in our flag. And it's not like you haven't used words others have written without giving credit to them. Before throwing stones...you might want to look into your own mirror.
posted on June 4, 2004 10:39:21 AM newUnpatriotic attempts such as yours to denigrate war medals while using someone else's words as your own is pathetic to say the least.
Helen, you wouldn't know a Viet patriot if he kicked you in the azz. Your blindness of Kerrys faults are caused by your pathological hatred of true Viet vets and lack of military experience. Whether my words or someone Else's (that I failed to italicize) the fact remains. Kerry is not supported by the MAJORITY of Vietnam vets.
While I may not have been awarded the medals Kerry was, I can proudly say I served my entire tour and didn't take the easy way out and saw a hell of a lot more action than Kerry did. Real face to face action where you didn't have the chance to rely on a speeding boat to remove you from danger.
You can irresponsibly defend Kerry to your last breath but you cannot (you will probably will anyway) never understand the breach of trust & camaraderie Kerry committed with is anti Viet activities & his support of Communisum.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on June 4, 2004 11:09:17 AM newYou can irresponsibly defend Kerry to your last breath but you cannot (you will probably will anyway) never understand the breach of trust & camaraderie Kerry committed with is anti Viet activities & his support of Communisum.
Well said, bear, and so very very true. Hopefully more of the public will be made aware of this support in the upcoming five months. That's how far left kerry leans.....and all should know it before making their decision on who to vote for in the Nov. election.
I don't know if I've ever thanked you for your service to our country, bear. But if I haven't I want to be sure to do so now. You guys lived through hell....and this country owed you a LOT more respect than you've ever been given. We won't ever forget the sacrifices you all made to fight the spread of communism.
posted on June 4, 2004 12:00:06 PM new
Linda, in reply to your comment earlier, I haven't "wrapped myself in the flag" as you and Bear have. That's why it's so strange that you would both denigrate Vietnam military awards and by doing so cast aspersions on the officers who awarded them. Is that patriotic in your opinion?
And, I never use others words as if they were my own. Go back and check Bear's reply to me. Profe's post includes a link to the source.
You should also include links to the source in all of your copy pastes if you expect anyone to read them. I certainly don't want to waste my time reading Drudge reports.
posted on June 4, 2004 12:55:00 PM new
LOL helen - I just noted your TWO reversals from your normal positions. You're always accusing others of 'wrapping themselves in the flag' and using Patriotism when they support our country... when you approve of our flag being burnt and refer to a Vet as being unpatriotic. Just struck me as too funny.
And yes, you have posted words without links. But you take care of how you post....and I'll take care of my own posts. I always mention where my info is from...or link. And if you don't like how I post....you know where the ignore button is I'm sure.
posted on June 4, 2004 01:20:13 PM new"wrapped myself in the flag" denigrate Vietnam military awards and by doing so cast aspersions on the officers who awarded them. Is that patriotic in your opinion?
I dam sure have EARNED the right Helen with my BLOOD, MORE than you EVER will
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on June 4, 2004 01:34:35 PM new ..."when you approve of our flag being burnt and refer to a Vet as being unpatriotic. Just struck me as too funny."
Hey! All vets are not patriotic vets. In fact, some who call themselves vets are not vets at all.
You need to expand your thinking, linda beyond the mundane. Seriously, try thinking outside the box for a change. You are too bogged down in the status quo and as a result, not receptive to new ideas.
posted on June 4, 2004 03:02:53 PM new
And you need to come back to reality a little more often...get back inside the box...so to speak. Stop defending the enemies of your own country all the time...and start noticing the good it has done.
And it's not like you haven't used words others have written without giving credit to them. Before throwing stones...you might want to look into your own mirror.