posted on June 4, 2004 07:27:26 AM new
Sharon Sacks Two Cabinet Foes to Pass Gaza Plan
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon sacked two far-right ministers on Friday, ensuring a cabinet majority for his Gaza pullout plan at the risk of a political crisis that could bring down his government.
Sharon ejected Benny Elon and Avigdor Lieberman of the pro-settler National Union party, staunch opponents of his U.S.-backed proposal, to avoid having to water down his plan or else face defeat in a vote on Sunday, political sources said.
The move should secure narrow cabinet approval of Sharon's four-stage blueprint to "disengage" from conflict with Palestinians by evacuating 21 Jewish settlements in Gaza and four of 120 enclaves in the West Bank by the end of 2005.
Sharon's decision came after he failed to reach a face- saving compromise with Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other rebellious members of their rightist Likud party who oppose ceding land Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East war.
A poll in the Haaretz daily reinforced the view that most Israelis -- 59 percent -- support withdrawal from Gaza's hard-to-defend settlements, where 7,500 Jews live cloistered from 1.3 million Palestinians. But Likud rejected his plan in a May 2 referendum as rewarding "Palestinian terror."
A source close to Sharon said there was still a chance of a last-minute resolution of differences before Sunday's vote. The dismissals would not officially take effect for 48 hours.
"I didn't ignore the attempts to reach a compromise but there were some things I couldn't give in to and I didn't," said Sharon, a former general with a taste for political brinkmanship. "I need a majority on Sunday," he told Haaretz.
Sharon first summoned the ministers to his office but when they refused he sent messengers to deliver dismissal letters, each consisting of one line, without any reason given.
Accusing Sharon of trying "to create an artificial majority," Tourism Minister Elon opted for hide-and-seek. In a bizarre twist, he told Israel Radio he wanted to avoid receiving official notice so he would still be eligible to vote on Sunday.
Lieberman, the transport minister, received his letter while working out at a Jerusalem health club, Army Radio said.
Their aides called their firings "anti-democratic."
Before sacking them, Sharon had 11 cabinet members supporting his plan and 12 opposing it. The dismissals now guarantee him a one-vote victory.
COALITION IN DANGER
The fate of Sharon's government will now rest on a second small ultra-nationalist coalition partner, the pro-settler National Religious Party (NRP), which together with the National Union bloc had threatened to bolt if the Gaza plan was passed.
That could leave Sharon shy of a parliamentary majority, opening the prospects of a "national unity" partnership with the center-left Labour Party or a call for early elections. A Sharon confidant said the prime minister hoped to avoid a national ballot.
NRP officials voiced anger at the ministers' dismissals but gave no immediate word on their intentions.
Talks on a compromise collapsed on Thursday over hard-liners' demands for Gaza settlements to continue receiving construction funds even after the pullout plan was approved.
Sharon and dissident ministers had been working toward a deal that called for the cabinet to approve his plan "in principle," while agreeing to hold off on any settlement evacuation until a second vote in six to nine months.
But Sharon -- who had called off a vote last Sunday when his defeat appeared inevitable -- now looks certain to seek approval for his full plan, as demanded by the United States.
Each stage is expected to require a separate cabinet vote, but the timetable for phased implementation remains unclear.
Palestinians would welcome withdrawal from any of the land they seek for a state, but they suspect Sharon's unilateral plan is just a ruse to strengthen Israel's hold on chunks of the West Bank where the bulk of Jewish settlements have been built. (Additional reporting by Ori Lewis)
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on June 4, 2004 09:53:11 AM new
Linda - don't go getting technical .
I was referring to what would happen if Bush could fire members of congress and the senate that were going to vote against him on bills in order to guarantee approval of them.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Jun 4, 2004 09:56 AM ]
posted on June 4, 2004 10:23:25 AM new
I know, NearTheSea, there's soooo much riding on the upcoming election....we're all taking our frustration out on each other. Well not all....but you know what I mean.
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Was just foolin' around fenix....yes, I know what you meant. What I don't know and maybe you could explain to me - is Sharon's cabinet the same thing to their government as a president's cabinet is to him? Or is their cabinet equal to our congress where they're elected?
posted on June 4, 2004 11:26:50 AM new
Their cabinet is more closely compared to our congress. Sharons greatest political rival is Netanyahu who has been leading the charge against this current plan and is also part part of this cabinet. Netanyahu was in fact the deciding vote against last time this plan was brought before the cabinet.
I have to wonder hhow are government justifies proping up a world leader currently under investigation on at least two different corruption charges who fires leaders in order to manipulate policy?
If Sharon was the leader of any nation but Isreal, we would be trying to organise an overthrow.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on June 4, 2004 11:34:14 AM new
Near - I always joke around here and expect that otehrs do too.
If you watch the different thread you will often find that I may be embrpoiled in a bitter debate in one thread with Linda and joking around with her in another.
BTW- Sharons political affiliations don't affect the way I think of him. I just abhor the way he operates. I would like to see this plan go thru - I think it's a good one and can have positive results and to be honest I think do think he is better than Netanyahu would ever be i the job but I still believe that they are both glorified terrorists, it's just than one is less hardline than the other.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on June 4, 2004 12:31:22 PM newcheck it out! he switched from socialist party to the Democratic party!!!
A jail-bird is still a jail-bird....no matter which party accepts him. There are OTHER socialists in the democratic party too....I believe the only reason they're there is because they know they wouldn't stand a chance of winning IF they ran under the Socialist or Communist Party platform.
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TENSION???? WHAT TENSION???? [shake]
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Their cabinet is more closely compared to our congress. Thank you, I understand that. What I'm asking to find out is who puts them in their cabinets? Say...did Sharon put these cabinet people in his own cabinet....or were they put their by others voting them in?
posted on June 4, 2004 12:54:42 PM new
Linda - here is a basic Israeli government 101 that came out prior to the elections there last year.
The Knesset, Israel's parliament, consists of 120 members who reflect the wide range of parties and points of view throughout society, including Jews, Christian and Muslim Arabs, Druze, immigrants and women.
The main parties in Israel's January 28 elections are (in order of projected size):
Likud - right-of-center (Ariel Sharon)
Labor - left-of-center (Amram Mitzna)
Shinui - anti-religious platform (Tommy Lapid)
Shas - Sephardi religious (Rabbi Ovadia Yosef)
Meretz - ultra-leftist peace platform (Yossi Sarid)
Yisrael B'Aliya - immigrant rights' platform (Natan Sharansky)
National Religious Party (Effie Etam)
United Torah Judaism - Ashkenazi religious
National Union - pro-settlement platform
United Arab List - one of 3 Israeli Arab parties
Israel's governmental system is based on the principle of separation of powers with checks and balances. The executive branch is subject to oversight by the Knesset, Israel's legislature, and judicial review by an independent supreme court.
The Knesset must be elected every four years, but may dissolve itself sooner and call for early elections. Elections to the Knesset are based on a vote for a political party rather than an individual. Knesset seats are assigned in proportion to each party's percentage of the total vote. Parties choose their own candidates through competitive primaries. The largest party represented in the Knesset selects the Prime Minister of Israel.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on June 4, 2004 02:12:18 PM new
NearTheSea - What GREAT news!!!!
Congradulations GRANDMA!!!
How absolutely wonderful. And life goes on...as it should.
Told you you'd better be saving for that wedding. I'm so happy for all of you.
Tell Mike I said 'Congratulations Grandpa' too.
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quick little funny memory. When we told my inlaws that we were expecting...his mother was elated - jumping for joy and his father said, "I don't mind being a grandpa, just not too sure how I feel about sleeping with a 'grandma'. They were in their very early forties at the time.
posted on June 4, 2004 02:24:09 PM new
LINDA, you said the 'G' word!!!
well, they are getting married, now it will most likely be a Vegas wedding, but they are. I talked to her guy last night, he told his parents, and they are happy, his parents still have kids at home in school!!!! I feel so old! He is 25 and she is 22. Still young, but he makes enough money, and....... Mike is asking the neighbor down the road about a house that he was talking about putting up for rent, so they will be right here, they even want it that way. She is being a little whiney, she's been calling every 10 minutes, asking me 'is this normal' or 'I going to be sick' LOL, I really think at 5 1/2 weeks its all stress
yeah Mike is not thrilled about being a Grandpa, and well, I can't even say the 'g' word myself yet ack!!!!!!
Yep, and watch, knowing her, she always has to do everything in such a big way, it will be twins, since her bio dads side, he has 3 sets of twin uncles YIKES!!!!!!!!
posted on June 4, 2004 02:38:40 PM new
Linda - you are correct about my hopes for the conflict. i would hope that there can be a way that these people can lern to live next door to each other without the pall of death and violence.
You are correct about my feelings in Sharon - I think he is nothing but a sanctioned terrorist (sorry but blowing up half a residential block to kill one man that may or not be there at the time is the act of a terrorist.) I do agree with the current plan and the proposed withdrawal from Gaza and hope that the whole thing is successful - I mean what the hell... even the blind dog sometimes finds a bone
Hey Near - Congrats Grams!! Don't sweat the off topic - do we actually have threads here that stay NO topic anyway?
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on June 4, 2004 02:59:03 PM new
I don't understand why we should support Sharon's terrorism. Besides controlling Iraq's resources and establishing a base of operation there, another major goal is to protect the interests of Israel.
posted on June 4, 2004 05:23:49 PM new
Ha! easy for you all to say, they're already saying 'gramps and granny'!!!
the ingrate children/adults
maybe having them live 2 blocks away isn't such a good idea, now that I think about it...... BABYSITTING will be the first thing........... oh god........
posted on June 4, 2004 05:56:33 PM new
NearTheSea - Sure it is...close enough but not in the same house.
You're going to LOVE being a Grandma. It's like you felt when you had your own....without all the same work and worry.
I kind of envy them....just starting out on their journey together...getting married...starting a family. I remember those days so well....and so fondly. Almost makes me wish I could do it all over again. Almost
posted on June 4, 2004 06:25:06 PM new
Congrats, NTS!
Haven't you noticed that Grandmas are getting younger looking all the time now? Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's the Mom or the Grandma with the little ones.
posted on June 4, 2004 06:53:37 PM new
It still feels funny......but its not about me, its about her. And she's got her first OB appt for the 18th, geez she'll be like a whole 2 months! LOL!
I remember going to the ob at like 4 months!
But he (the father) is really happy, she is, but she's already getting on my nerves (calling about every little thing)
the sorta downside to this, is he just re-enlisted, he did 6 years in the reserves, and re enlisted. I talked about that to him, he wants to go if he is called. His brother is in the Marines, did a year in Iraq. His whole family is military...
But he's a good kid (geez is 25 a kid?) to me it is
Yeah, I can babysit, and then send kid home to its parents!
posted on June 4, 2004 06:57:35 PM new
Geez talking about grandmothers looking young, how bout Jane Seymour, isn't she in her 50's now, and had her twins at 50? wow, she looks so young, almost timeless.....
posted on June 5, 2004 10:38:40 PM new
Yes, granny! Jane S. is truly timeless.
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As I've matured, I've learned . .
#2. . . that the people you care most about in life are taken from you too soon and all the less important ones just never go away. And the real pains in the butt are permanent.
