posted on June 10, 2004 03:09:59 PM new
The liberal media is trying to scare us into believing that all of our jobs are being moved overseas. But only 2% of workers were laid off because their jobs were moved to a foreign country. Only 2%. I repeat, only 2%. You read it right, only 2%. Two friggin' percent!
Outsourcing Causes 9 Pct. of U.S. Layoffs
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The bulk of outsourced jobs never leave U.S. shores, the government said on Thursday in a new report suggesting concerns over American workers losing jobs to cheaper foreign labor may be exaggerated.
Nine percent of non-seasonal U.S. layoffs in the first quarter were due to outsourcing, but less than a third of the work was sent overseas, the U.S. Labor Department said in releasing new figures on mass layoffs and outsourcing.
"In more than seven out of 10 cases, the work activities were reassigned to places elsewhere in the U.S.," the Bureau of Labor Statistics said in its report on mass layoffs for the January-to-March period.
Organized labor, critical of the administration's record on jobs, has promised to make outsourcing an issue in this year's presidential election.
While the figures offer the first official measure of the impact of outsourcing on U.S. employment, they count only layoffs at companies where at least 50 people filed for unemployment insurance during a five-week period and the layoff lasted more than 30 days.
That restriction means the figures do not capture the impact outsourcing has had on small businesses.
In the first three months of the year, 4,633 U.S. workers were laid off because their jobs were moved to a foreign country, the BLS said. That represents less than 2 percent of the mass layoffs that totaled 239,361 during that period.
When seasonal and vacation-related mass layoffs are excluded, the proportion of workers who lost their jobs due to overseas outsourcing rises to about 2.5 out of 100.
Another 9,985 workers lost their jobs because the work moved to a different location within America, BLS said.
However, the report showed outsourcing had a huge impact on whether work sites were permanently shut-down or just temporarily closed. Fifty-one percent of mass layoffs caused by outsourcing were permanent closures of the work site, compared to just 17 percent of total layoffs.
A large proportion of mass layoffs in America are due to seasonal factors -- such as winter layoffs in agriculture or summer shut-downs at manufacturing plants -- and about two-thirds last less than a month.
posted on June 10, 2004 03:43:13 PM new
Yes, when this first started being discussed as a campaign issue, I posted an article that said almost the exact same thing. My article didn't give the exact numbers quoted those 'in-the-know' who were maintaining the %'s were much lower than we were being led to believe by the dems. Now we have numbers. Still won't keep the 'I don't believe anything our government tells us group' from believing it's not true. They don't 'buy' what the Department of Labor says....unless they like what they are saying. lol
posted on June 10, 2004 04:03:00 PM new
i dont know about this 2 %??
many of us have received phone calls from india,you figure if you and i have all received phone calls from someone in india working for amex etc,thats upsetting.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 10, 2004 04:17:50 PM new
I don't know, stopwhining, since kerry's wife has companies in India, among other countries [listed below] maybe those jobs were lost by Americans....and sent to India. Maybe those who run her holdings in India just hired workers there:
Kerry is concerned about jobs lost overseas??? Really??
The Free Republic:
Posted on 03/29/2004 6:48:25 AM PST by Gopher Broke
Kerry does not like off shore companies: Oh Really?
Just came across a bit of information regarding Kerry and his claim of the Bush administration sending jobs abroad.
Well, it seems that the Heinz Corporation, owned by Kerry's wife, has 79 plants where it manufacturers products and 57 of the 79 are located in countries outside of the U.S. How many U.S. jobs are lost here?
Factories located at:
Taipei,Taiwan; Dublin,Ireland; Paris,France; Dovarmenez, France; Lisbon,Portugal; Madrid,Spain; Milan,Italy; Monguzzo,Italy; Athens,Greece; Warsaw,Poland; Pudliszki,Poland; Wodzislaw,Poland; Miedzychod,Poland; Moscow,Russia; Georgievisk,Russia; Cairo,Egypt; Tel Aviv,Isreal; Haifa,Isreal; Elst,The Netherlands and 6 other plants there; Brussels,Belgium; Dusseldorf,Germany; Turnhout,Belgium; Rovereto,Italy; Chateaurenand,France; North York, Ontario,Canada; Wheatley,Ontario,Canada; Caracas,Venezuela; San Jose,Costa Rica; Johannesburg,South Africa; Gaborone,Botswana; Harare,Zimbabwe; Cheguta,Zimbabwe; Wellington,South Africa; Melbourne,Victoria, Australia; Republic of Singapore; Auckland, New Zealand; Tokyo,Japan; Guangzhov, People's Republic of China; Qingdao, People's Republic of China; Inchon, South Korea; Bangkok,Thailand; Mumbai, India; Jakarta, Indonesia; Surabaya, Indonesia; Manila, Philippines; Wanchai, Hong Kong.
Think of the conflict of interest a President would have who's wife owns business interests in all of these countries and others.
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posted on June 10, 2004 04:47:52 PM new
Linda here is what Kerry has said about the outsourcing of jobs and what he plans to do:
Addressing Outsourcing by Requiring Companies to Fully Disclose Their Plans to Send Jobs Overseas
“Under this Administration, America’s middle class has been abandoned – its dreams denied, its Main Street interests ignored and its mainstream values scorned by a White House that puts privilege first,” said John Kerry. “Middle class Americans don’t ask for special favors, they just want basic fairness, and a President who fights for that ideal.”
“Next November, we can change all that,” Kerry continued. “Because in a Kerry Administration, if you are doing your part and doing what’s right – whether you’re a CEO in the corner suite or a worker in an office or on the factory floor – you’ll have a President who honors you, respects your contribution, and who will fight for you and your future everyday.”
Priorities
Give Workers Notice
Kerry will require companies to inform affected workers, the Department of Labor, state agencies responsible for helping laid off employees, and local government officials; and
Kerry will require companies to provide employees at least 3 months advance notice.
Keep Jobs in America
Use Government Contracts for U.S. Workers. Some states have begun outsourcing government contracts. For example, New Jersey has outsourced government services to help move people from welfare to work. The idea of using taxpayer dollars to send entry-level service jobs overseas to administer a program aimed at finding domestic entry-level service jobs for welfare recipients makes no sense. John Kerry believes that U.S. Federal contracts where possible should be performed by American workers. He will direct his Cabinet Secretaries to look at procurement policies and assure wherever possible Federal contracts are not being outsourced overseas.
Stop Giving Government Contracts to Corporations Breaking the Rules. John Kerry will also make sure the Federal government does not give lucrative contracts to companies that have a record of accounting fraud – like WorldCom – or are moving offshore.
Consumers “Right to Know” on Call Center Workers. In today’s economy, consumers increasingly use the telephone or Internet to buy goods and services, inquire about transactions and bills, and get technical support or other information. More than 70 percent of customer interaction occurs in call centers and an estimated 6 million Americans work in call centers. In recent years, many call centers have shifted operations overseas, to places like India, Vietnam, and the Philippines. The US has lost 250,000 call center jobs since 2001. John Kerry wants to keep jobs on the booming call center market here in America, and help provide a measure of security for telephone and Internet consumer transactions. He believes that consumers should have a right to know where they are calling. The Federal Trade Commission enforces standards to ensure commercial compliance with “Made in USA” labeling. Kerry believes a “consumer’s right to know” should also apply the same principles of disclosure to telephone- and Internet- mediated customer service transactions.
End Every Single Tax Credit That Gives Corporations Breaks for Moving Jobs Offshore. John Kerry will close every single loophole that gives companies incentives to move jobs abroad, including stopping American companies from setting up virtual headquarters in foreign countries just to avoid paying U.S. taxes and stop tax breaks for companies that move jobs abroad.
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/outsourcing.html
Re-defeat Bush
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June is Gay Pride Month
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Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
posted on June 10, 2004 08:54:30 PM new
"Kerry will require companies to inform affected workers, the Department of Labor, state agencies responsible for helping laid off employees, and local government officials; and
Kerry will require companies to provide employees at least 3 months advance notice".
He must have thought long and hard about that because
I think they have to do that now. At least when a company goes out of business there has to be a 3 month notice so nothing will change there and retraining is offered at government expense.
When Chrystler left Kenosha many workers had a chance to either stay in Kenosha, take jobs in other parts of the Country or early retirement. They got a decient severance payout and also had a chance for retraining all expenses paid.
Johnson Wax also did downsizing (approx. 1997) but didn't lose any employees because of loss of job. They asked employees with x amount of years of service who could or would retire if they wanted to. A very good severance package was offered along with retirement and benefits. So if you think this is something new it isn't. It has been around longer than Pres. Bush.
What Kerry is suggesting is already in place in Wisconsin so this is nothing new.
Retraining is a high priority here and people are taking advantage of it.
Many are going into the health care field as there is a shortage of almost any profession.
posted on June 10, 2004 09:18:45 PM new
Libra - could you find that rule becuase there are many stories of people coming to work only to find out that their company has shut it's doors. Three months notice is definately not the norm. Try two weeks if you are lucky.
BTW - Most of the jobs being lost are not union jobs as opposed to the ones that you described so comparing the two is apples and oranges. The unions can sue the company for violation of their contracts.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Jun 10, 2004 09:19 PM ]
posted on June 11, 2004 12:26:12 AM new
"How can it be good for America to have all these Indians doing our white-collar jobs?" I asked 24/7's founder, S. Nagarajan.
Well, he answered patiently, "look around this office." All the computers are from Compaq. The basic software is from Microsoft. The phones are from Lucent. The air-conditioning is by Carrier, and even the bottled water is by Coke, because when it comes to drinking water in India, people want a trusted brand. On top of all this, says Mr. Nagarajan, 90 percent of the shares in 24/7 are owned by U.S. investors.
This explains why, although the U.S. has lost some service jobs to India, total exports from U.S. companies to India have grown from $2.5 billion in 1990 to $4.1 billion in 2002. What goes around comes around, and also benefits Americans.
Let's hope. Today, Virginia has another column arguing that internal free trade has made the United States rich, and that global free trade will do the same thing for the world. Again, let's hope.
That, of course, hasn't stopped some people from denouncing the process -- and doing it all the way to the bank:
Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, frequently calls companies and chief executives "Benedict Arnolds" if they move jobs and operations overseas to avoid paying U.S. taxes.
But Kerry has accepted money and fundraising assistance from top executives at companies that fit the candidate's description of a notorious traitor of the American Revolution.
Executives and employees at such companies have contributed more than $140,000 to Kerry's presidential campaign, a review of his donor records shows.
Additionally, two of Kerry's biggest fundraisers, who together have raised more than $400,000 for the candidate, are top executives at investment firms that helped set up companies in the world's best-known offshore tax havens.
Hey, he's keeping the money in the country! At least until they start outsourcing political jobs. Then, all of a sudden, you'll see a lot of interest in outlawing the practice for real, and nobody will care whether it's good for the economy or not. . . .
posted on June 11, 2004 12:35:46 AM newThe Outsourcing Bogeyman
According to the election-year bluster of politicians and pundits, the outsourcing of American jobs to other countries has become a problem of epic proportion. Fortunately, this alarmism is misguided.
Outsourcing actually brings far more benefits than costs, both now and in the long run.
Foreign Affairs warns that, should critics of outsourcing succeed in provoking a new wave of U.S. protectionism, the consequences would be disastrous—both for the U.S. economy and the workers supposedly at risk. ______________________
"The Outsourcing Bogeyman," Foreign Affairs, 83 (3): 22-34 (May/June 2004)
David W. Drezner (University of Chicago, Illinois, USA)
When a presidential election year coincides with an uncertain economy, campaigning politicians invariably invoke an international economic issue as a dire threat to the well-being of Americans.
Speechwriters denounce the chosen scapegoat, the media provides blanket coverage of the alleged threat, and legislators scurry to introduce supposed remedies.
The cause of this year's commotion is offshore outsourcing—the alleged migration of American jobs overseas. The depth of alarm was strikingly illustrated by the firestorm of reaction to recent testimony by N. Gregory Mankiw, the head of President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers.
No economist really disputed Mankiw's observation that "outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade," which makes it "a good thing." But in the political arena, Mankiw's comments sparked a furor on both sides of the aisle.
Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry accused the Bush administration of wanting "to export more of our jobs overseas. . . ."
But believing that offshore outsourcing causes unemployment is the economic equivalent of believing that the sun revolves around the earth: intuitively compelling but clearly wrong. . . .
Outsourcing creates jobs in the United States, keeps prices low for consumers, and benefits every American. The negative impact of outsourcing on the economy and employment has been greatly exaggerated, and the benefits of outsourcing almost entirely ignored.
And there are so many myths...
DOL - Offshore Outsourcing Is Rare
06/10/04 02:22 PM
Finally, the Labor Department has issued an official study of the impact of "outsourcing" today. Just over 4,600 U.S. workers lost their jobs due to offshore outsourcing in the first quarter of 2004, according to a new study by the Department of Labor out today.
This number is less than 2 percent of all U.S. private nonfarm workers who were out of work for more than 31 days in the quarter.
Critics will rightfully note that the absolute number is lower than the actual jobs likely shipped overseas, since the study was limited to mass layoffs of 50+. But the ratio of 2 percent is solid, and probably a high estimate of all gross job losses since most outsourcing events described to date involve one-time factory and call-center shut-downs.
It should also be noted that very few layoffs involve job relocations of any kind. Of the 16,000 job moves in Q1, the majority were within the company domestically, just to a different plant. Very few went overseas, and even fewer went to other U.S. firms.
Bottom line: outsourcing is a non-event that has not had any significant impact on the economy.
The one problem with the Labor figures is that it continues the one-sided perspective that haunts this issue. In Labor's defense, the study is limited to mass layoffs, and the efficiency gains of outsourcing which creates jobs and growth in the U.S. is beyond the scope or ability of their data to illuminate. But those gains should at least be acknowledged, since the only mainstream macroeconomic study suggest that every job outsourced leads to growth of two jobs in the U.S.
posted on June 11, 2004 01:08:28 AM new
'The Outsourcing Bogeyman' is right. The liberal media has been reporting foreign outsourcing so much that even I was starting to get concerned. CNN spends hours on the subject with their "Exporting America" or "Outsourcing America" segments. But they never said that only 2% of US job layoffs were outsourced overseas. Two percent is hardly anything! Those SOB's misled us!
"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
posted on June 11, 2004 01:13:54 AM new
This one made me think of you logansdad.....since you're always saying as time goes on things change.
The Economics of Progress
By George F. Will
Friday, February 20, 2004; Page A25
It is difficult to say something perfectly, precisely false. But House Speaker Dennis Hastert did when participating in the bipartisan piling-on against the president's economic adviser, who imprudently said something sensible.
John Kerry and John Edwards, who are not speaking under oath and who know that economic illiteracy has never been a disqualification for high office, have led the scrum against the chairman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, N. Gregory Mankiw, who said the arguments for free trade apply to trade in services as well as manufactured goods.
But the prize for the pithiest nonsense went to Hastert: "An economy suffers when jobs disappear."
So the economy suffered when automobiles caused the disappearance of the jobs of most blacksmiths, buggy makers, operators of livery stables, etc.?
The economy did not seem to be suffering in 1999, when 33 million jobs were wiped out -- by an economic dynamism that created 35.7 million jobs. How many of the 4,500 U.S. jobs that IBM is planning to create this year will be made possible by sending 3,000 jobs overseas?
Hastert's ideal economy, where jobs do not disappear, existed almost everywhere for almost everyone through almost all of human history. In, say, 12th-century France, the ox behind which a man plowed a field changed, but otherwise the plowman was doing what generations of his ancestors had done and what generations of his descendants were to do.
Those were the good old days, before economic growth.
The disappearance of whole categories of jobs can be desirable for reasons other than economic rationality.
The economist Irwin Stelzer recalls that John L. Lewis, the fire-breathing leader of the United Mine Workers of America from 1920 to 1960, said that he hoped to see the day when no man would make his living by going underground.
For the highly competent workforce of this wealthy nation, the loss of jobs is not a zero-sum game: It is a trading up in social rewards. When the presidential candidates were recently in South Carolina, histrionically lamenting the loss of textile jobs, they surely noticed the huge BMW presence. It is the "offshoring" of German jobs because Germany's irrational labor laws, among other things, give America a comparative advantage. Such economic calculation explains the manufacture of Mercedes-Benzes in Alabama, Hondas in Ohio, Toyotas in California.
As long as the American jobs going offshore were blue-collar jobs, the political issue did not attain the heat it has now that white-collar job losses frighten a more articulate, assertive social class.
I know EAG....it's so frustrating for me that the liberal media can so easily pick and choose what 'facts' they want the public to hear. And those 'left out' facts could influence voters decisions. And many do, rightly, worry that this job loss is out of control.
But there are many links showing that for the jobs lost.....it is creating more jobs here in the US....just like the one above mentions. The Cato Inst. also has a right-up on this issue. There are just too many to post.
posted on June 11, 2004 06:16:44 AM new
Personally, I would like to see all government call centers, state and local, relocated overseas. If we are going to outsource jobs can we at least use the practice to start saving some tax dollars?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on June 11, 2004 06:26:43 AM new
I find it funny that you guys are suddenly making this a liberal vs conservative issue. Everyone has been on this issue, In fact, I've heard more conservatives complain about it than liberals.
Regarding the numbers... did you guys really think that they were staggeringly high in terms of completely outsourced jobs? Really? Was there thought behind that assumption or was it just a random acceptance?
If you watched the news you certainly knew about all of the plant shut downs and massive layoffs. You had to have known that they were going to be a large percentage of the issue.
I think that the worry regarding job exporation has more to deal with the obvious fact that it is a growth industry as opposed to it's current size. More jobs are going to leave. More fiscally responsible CEOs are going to see the advantage of moving menial labor (aka call centers) off shore and rather than sitting back on our heels and bemoaning the fact this coutry needs to get off it's duff and learn to adapt and grow.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Jun 11, 2004 08:39 AM ]
And many do, rightly, worry that this job loss is out of control.