posted on June 11, 2004 12:01:43 PM new
I can just see it happening now. The protests. The threatened lawsuits from the ACLU. They decry "you are denying his civil rights", "you're discrimionating agains him just because he is suffering from Alzheimers.
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Alzheimer's patient ordered to mental hospital Family, lawyers can't keep him from driving
Associated Press
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- A man who has Alzheimer's disease was ordered locked up at a mental hospital for criminals after he continued to drive despite a judge's order to stop. The man thinks he's a salesman and wants to go to work, his lawyer says.
Albert Brenner, 75, was being held without bond at the Broward County Jail while waiting for space at the hospital. He has previously been ordered to give up his driver's license and car keys, and the man's family and lawyers have tried to keep him from driving.
Judge Geoffrey D. Cohen said in his order Wednesday that Brenner should be held at the hospital until his mental health can be "restored," enabling him to be tried on battery charges.
His lawyer said Brenner's ability to reason can never be improved. Alzheimer's causes a deterioration of mental ability and worsens over time. Former President Reagan, who died Saturday, had the disease, and the Alzheimer's Association says it afflicts 4.5 million Americans.
Caseworkers have testified that Brenner's condition has worsened in recent months.
"Everything that has brought Mr. Brenner to this place is a manifestation of his Alzheimer's," said Howard Finkelstein, Broward's chief assistant public defender. "Are we going to start locking up our grandparents?
The public defender's office is asking another judge to reconsider Cohen's ruling at a hearing today.
Cohen initially ordered Brenner not to drive as a condition of being released from jail after he was arrested twice in 2002 on battery charges involving his companion, Irene Kaplan, then 86.
A case worker later reported that Brenner was driving, and last month he was picked up after locking the keys in Kaplan's car.
Despite efforts to get him to stop driving, Brenner continues because he believes he is a salesman of '70s-era rotary telephones, another lawyer, Betsy Benson, said. Friends, lawyers and family members have been unable to convince him that he no longer has to drive to work.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on June 11, 2004 12:25:21 PM new
That was my first thought as well. Where are this man's caretakers? If he has no caretakers, than he needs to be put into care. Not jail.
Oh, wait, I forgot. One of Reagan's legacies was to put folks like this out into the streets...
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on June 11, 2004 12:39:50 PM new
Like how ludicrous Bunni! Telling a person with Alzheimer's that he shouldn't drive and relying on him to remember that. Good grief!
posted on June 11, 2004 12:47:18 PM new
In my opinion any one older than 70 shouldn't be allowed to drive.
Re-defeat Bush
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June is Gay Pride Month
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Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
posted on June 11, 2004 12:50:54 PM new In my opinion any one older than 70 shouldn't be allowed to drive.
Can't agree with that. It should be taken on a case-by-case basis.
There are 70+ year-olds out there that are much safer drivers than many younger drivers.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on June 11, 2004 12:53:56 PM new
I don't agree with that Logan. Nowadays, many people over 70 are more fit and with-it than some of the people my age. Driving should be based on capability, not age imo.
This is a good example of what Helen was talking about. Reagan gets Alzheimer's and get 10 years of the best care. This guys gets Alzheimer's and they want to put him in jail.
posted on June 11, 2004 01:04:21 PM new
While I agree that all reasonable effort should be put forth to stop this man fom driving, I do not agree that a hospital for the criminally insame is reasonable. Certainly there must be a more humane way answer to this problem.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on June 11, 2004 01:12:43 PM new
I can certainly understand the law getting involved. If he were taking a loaded gun around with him it would be no different. You generally can only shoot one or two people before you get caught. Remember the old guy who mowed down an entire fleamarket in his car? He hurt or killed dozens of people. Which is the deadlier weapon?
But yes, if you cannot hide the keys then get the police to impound his car. If they can do it for drunks, it should certainly be an option in this case as well. Simply taking his license is not enough- take the whole car awasy. If he needs 24 hour care and observation, then get it for him, even if that means a state-sponsored nursing home.
I have no problem with old people driving, but I think after 65 they should need to go through the full driving test every four years, not just an eye exam.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on June 11, 2004 01:52:26 PM new
"But today, Judge Michael Kaplan overruled the other judge and said Brenner should be placed in a secure state nursing home. Kaplan set another hearing for Tuesday to decide whether the elderly man is competent to stand trial on the battery charges."
I think that reason will prevail in this case. This fellow is a danger to the community if he is allowed to drive with Alzheimers.
I see a lot of teenage drivers with symptoms of Alzheimers. LOL!
posted on June 11, 2004 05:04:04 PM new
Bunni and Kraft,
How would you react if each state passed a law saying once you turned 70, you couldn't drive?
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
------------------------------
Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
posted on June 11, 2004 05:56:32 PM new
Logan, if someone told me I couldn't drive and there was no reason other than my age, I'd pull a switch blade on them.
posted on June 11, 2004 05:58:23 PM new
KD,
I hope it doesn't come to that. Luckily you are not a pilot as they have a mandatory retirement age. I think it is 65. Once you get that magic age you are not allowed to fly.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
------------------------------
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
posted on June 11, 2004 07:15:47 PM new
Logansdad: [i] Bunni and Kraft,
How would you react if each state passed a law saying once you turned 70, you couldn't drive?
[/i]
Well, they'd have to put it to the voters first & I doubt it would pass. I, for one, would vote against it.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on June 11, 2004 07:17:48 PM newIn this case, this person refuses to see what harm he is doing... mental hospital is the right thing to do, not jail as someone here posted...
Twelve, the first part of your post is way out there: it's not that the man refuses to see the harm that he is doing...he is incapable of seeing it.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on June 11, 2004 07:24:00 PM new
Read the article. They wish him in a mental facility. He was arrested for battery (not for driving) at which time it became apparent that he was still driving.
Regarding the comment on forbidding driving for those over 70 I believe it should be dealt with case by case. One size does not fit all.
Regarding putting this guy into a medical facility I have no problem.
posted on June 11, 2004 10:26:52 PM new
replaymedia I beg your pardon. What a statement that was. I can probably pass a drivers test better than you. I can tell you I am over 65. I also have family over 65 and in much better condition to drive than I see younger people. I shutter when I drive down a certain 45 MPH road in our town. I try and go the speed limit which is hard to do because certain men in the 30 - 40 age group seem to think I am not driving fast enough and weave in and out of traffic. Pull in front of you so you have to put your foot on the brake. We always make it to the stop lite at the same time no matter how fast they go. Speed Limits were made for a reason not for drivers to break. I have had one accident and that was 30 years ago where I pulled out in front of someone. I have had 2 speeding tickets. One in 1962 and one in 1994. I am not the menace to the road as you think older drivers are. It is the drivers that weave in and out and think they own the road that are.
Anyway with that dumb statement someone made about Reagan and Alzheimer's I really don't think he drove so he had no problem. In fact I don't think he went anywhere. Nancy took good care of him. And yes maybe he had cargivers as it is difficult for a 80 year old women to take care of a 90 year old man.
I don't have any idea how old anyone here is but you will at one time in your life get to that age unless something horrific happens and then you will think how stupid that statement was. But then of course you might not remember that.
posted on June 12, 2004 10:44:39 AM new
Near, there is NO age limit on private pilots (as long as they can pass the FAA physical). Commerical airline pilots do have a manditory retirement age.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on June 13, 2004 04:06:37 PM new
Nothing, but anyone who disagrees with a number of posters here is labeled, a socialist, liberal, pinko commie. It's there way of attempting to marginalize any thoughts you may have which are not along their line of thinking.
Friends don't let friends vote Republican!
[ edited by davebraun on Jun 13, 2004 04:15 PM ]
