I love you,
You love me,
Homo-sex-u-allllllll-i-ty
LGBT, haha, let's not confuse anyone! What about the N for normal? Or neutral, poor eunuchs, you ain't got nooooo body. Does the APA have any psycho-babble for them?
I declare June happy lion family month!
_____________________
You know...the best way to defeat a liberal is to let them speak.
posted on June 16, 2004 03:08:58 PM new
And there's a problem with this, because? Parklane, I think you and twelve should get together. Hopefully, you are a female and that should make him rather happy. Between you and twelve, the only discussions you can have are about being gay.
Like it or not, we live in a free (well, almost free) and very diverse coutnry. If any of it bothers you, I know of a few countries that would welcome you and twelve. In fact, the KKK may be looking for new members. And for the biggoted comments you and others make, you can KMA (back attcha from the eBay board).
I am one straight female who will be ATTENDING THE GAY PRIDE EVENTS IN CLEVELAND AND PROUD OF IT!
posted on June 16, 2004 03:36:49 PM new
Parklane - I just MUST take this opportunity to say how much I have enjoyed your posts here. I have gotten more chuckles out of them than I can say. Thank you. I love those who have a sense of humor and you sure do. Breaks up the tension around here and, imo, is a very welcome change.
-----------------
cheryl - IF we can have a non-emotional conversation I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.
First....why do gay men feel this overwhelming need to profess they are gay? It's like they have some longing deep down inside to announce it to all....even those who would prefer not to know. Why can't they just keep it to themselves....like straight people do. Why the need for all this 'special' treatment like Citigroup is doing here? We don't do that for bisexuals, straights.
No one I know who is heterosexual goes around announcing their sexual preferences to all. Even if they're bisexual etc...into wife swapping...they seem to keep that a private part of their life. I've never understood why gay men act so differently.
It's been my own observation that the lesbians I have had contact with don't go around screaming it from the roof tops either.
I personally think they'd be more accepted if people didn't feel they were forcing their sexuality down their throats all the time.
posted on June 16, 2004 03:45:52 PM new
LOL, I've been married 26 years and have to fight, for tolerance, with the wife all the time. She has DEFINITE opinions as her first husband 'discovered' his bisexuality while married to her. I don't care, really I don't. I am just tired of the barrage of commercials and the bending over forward to accommodate a small minority. A minority that does not understand the meaning of diminishing returns.
I don't beat y'all over the head about the bigotry and mistreatment that fat people get, do I? And us fat people make up a hell of a lot larger percentage than those born confused about how to plug in a lamp. I realize that in the real world there are bullies. I am smart enough to walk on the other side of the street if I see them coming. If they are stupid enough to cross the street and get in my face I give them everything I've got.
WE ALL HAVE ISSUES. One of my issues is keeping bad-breathed CSers out of my face. Go ahead and pander to them, Cheryl, I hope you have a good time. Don't drop the soap. Will you come to Fresno for our next Straight Pride Parade?
_______________
You know...the best way to defeat a liberal is to let them speak.
posted on June 16, 2004 03:46:48 PM new
Oh I'll bet Mikes company is planning something too. They already (as many large corporations have done) have insurance for 'domestic partners' and they also hold all kinds of events. I'll have to ask him tonight.
I wouldn't go, he wouldn't go. But if your gay, or family of, go for it.
The 'problem' I saw, or rather he sees with the insurance at his work, is already employees are using this for their friends, and who are not quite your 'domestic partner' but what can they say?
posted on June 16, 2004 03:54:03 PM new
Taking a purely business point of view here....
One of the highest earning demographics in the US today is gay men in their 20's and 30's. A number of companies have made the move to market directly to these groups in order to get a piece of the pie. If a company can establish a reputation of welcoming to this demographic then it is within their best interest to do so.
With that in mind, I would say that Citigroups efforts are good business and I applaud them.
I don't think that they are encouraging those that wish to stay "in the closet" to go against their wishes but simply to create an atmosphere where those who previously felt that their professional careers would be jeapardised to know that this is not the case.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
Wow, I feel for your wife. Had to be pretty devastating to her. Same thing happened with an old friend of mine. Only opposite. While married, he told his wife he was gay.
I don't pander to anyone. I have many gay friends and they have been just as loyal, kind and understanding of me (more so even) than my straight friends. My brother was gay and I don't believe for one moment that he's in hell right now because of it. He was welcomed home just like, hopefully, all of us will be.
Small groups are "pandered" to all the time, parklane. While working at 5/3 Bank back in the early '90s, we were told we were not allowed to display Christmas decorations because we had a couple of Musleums working in the bank. Our Christmas party became a Holiday party. That was the bank's policy, not the Musleums'. They told all of us Christmas decorations didn't bother them at all. However, the bank was "pandering" to them. Singling out gays is just plain wrong.
I realize there is a world of opinions on this topic and it will never be one in which we all agree. However, there is nothing wrong with at least affording common courtesy to your fellow human beings even if you think their lifestyle is wrong. When I see halos above your heads, I'll not argue your positions.
posted on June 16, 2004 05:31:12 PM new
I suspect that Citigroups main thrust, er, intent, is to head off a lawsuit.
As litigation goes a lawsuit for alleged harassment in the workplace because some one is gay is not that far off. The old saw is that the only group you can pick on any more is white males- but you better not if they're GAY white males.
Linda, to answer your question about being out- I think that is more prevalent among young men - older gay men tend to be more circumspect, especially if they're married or in certain areas where that preference might cause them trouble.
Over the years I have usually been surprised when someone was outed, by others or thru their own actions or proclamations.
It's just that the obvious are SO obvious, the effeminate men, the dikes in engineer boots, etc.
posted on June 16, 2004 06:03:08 PM new
Bob - Thank you for your answer. I take it you're saying older gay men try to keep it more hidden/private while young men don't care who knows.
BTW - On wife swapping/bisexuality - I didn't say it was.
posted on June 16, 2004 06:20:29 PM new
Let's see.
If a heterosexual puts a picture of their spouse on their desk at work, that's merely showing their love & affection. If a homosexual puts a picture of their partner on their desk at work it is considered "pushing themselves in our faces" or "going around announcing their sexual preference to all."
If a heterosexual & their spouse go to a company picnic, hold hands, sit together and perhaps exchange a hug, that's merely showing their love & affection. If a homosexual & his or her partner go to a company picnic and hold hands, sit together and perhaps exchange a hug, it is considered "pushing themselves in our faces" or "going around announcing their sexual preference to all."
Etc., etc., etc. Being "out" isn't always a matter of leaping up & shouting I'm gay, I'm gay at the drop of the hat. It can be as simple as having a picture on your desk. Or not going out of your way to lead a totally clandestine life, never joining in with coworkers in discussion about personal life, experiences, etc.
That is what the memo & event are referring to. Personally, I don't think anyone should ever be forced to live that way.
edited to remove an extraneous "u" and to put a space shere it belongs.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
[ edited by bunnicula on Jun 16, 2004 06:24 PM ]
I find it curious that you've mentioned - evidently proudly- and several times that you are going to a gay pride parade. But every time you feel compelled to add that you are not gay. It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry and George (after being accused of being lovers) - keep saying that they aren't gay "not that there's anything wrong with that". It sounded like they did think something was wrong with it and thus didn't want anyone to think it of them. You sound the same way to me.
All of these "gay" threads remind me of a diversity seminar I attended several years ago. the instructors had four big sheets of paper taped to the four corners of the room. there was a very brief description on each page. 1 was an East Indian Merchant 2 was a homeless father living with his son in his car 3rd was a successful gay business man and I can't remember the fourth.
They used them twice - once everyone in the room had to stand up and go to the corner of the person you'd want to be if you had to be one of the four and once everyone had to stand up and go to the corner of the person you'd least like to be. The vast majority of the people stood by the successful gay man page when asked who they'd least like to be. (I stood by the homeless father one - I've always been afraid of abject poverty).
I remember thinking at the time how painful that must have been for any gay people in the group.
posted on June 16, 2004 07:29:07 PM new
Or in the words of George Carlin... I have a friend who happens to be black
In this foeum I sometimes will make a similar statement only so that it is understood that I am not trying to enforce some personal agenda. Although I suppose equal rights is an agenda that many here are opposed to.
In the land of blind men the one eyed man is king.
posted on June 16, 2004 08:47:12 PM new
Linda,
My mistake, I read your post quickly and thought you were equating the two when you were in fact citing them as personal behaviors not generally discussed in your group.
Bunni,
That's how I found out about most of my gay co workers over the years- a picture on a desk or a visit from the SO. Never really cared, was just usually surprised.
posted on June 17, 2004 03:25:12 AM new
cherishedclutter
The point to be made is that I am a heterosexual and if I can go to these events and support people I consider my friends so can others. The point to be made is that there are plenty of heterosexuals who support the gay population's right to human rights like the rest of us. If I did not point out that I am not gay, you'd all say that I'm gay and it's the only reason I support gay issues. Is that clearer now?
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Jun 17, 2004 03:26 AM ]
posted on June 17, 2004 05:40:30 AM new
Cheryl, the fact that you have to answer that tacky question with an insinuation that you have some concealed reservations about the gay issue is truly unfortunate.
posted on June 17, 2004 07:30:02 AM new"I find it curious that you've mentioned - evidently proudly- and several times that you are going to a gay pride parade. But every time you feel compelled to add that you are not gay. It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry and George (after being accused of being lovers) - keep saying that they aren't gay "not that there's anything wrong with that". It sounded like they did think something was wrong with it and thus didn't want anyone to think it of them. You sound the same way to me."
cherishedclutter, your implication is that Cheryl is like Jerry and George in the episode that you describe. As you state after relating that episode, "You sound the same way to me." In my opinion that's a nasty insinuation.
posted on June 17, 2004 08:22:03 AM new
When I speak about gay issues I sometimes do say that I'm not gay so others will know that I'm not giving my opinion or speaking as how a gay person feels inside ........ because I have no idea what it's like to be gay and be accepted or not accepted by society. I hope I said that right.
I have to agree that we all take too much time trying to defend ourselves here and it shouldn't have to be that way.
posted on June 17, 2004 08:28:10 AM new
Parklane: Will you come to Fresno for our next Straight Pride Parade?
If you organize it they will come.
If you look around everyone has a parade these days to celebrate all kinds of things. In addition to your holiday parades, in Chicago we have a parade for just about every ethnic group. Each parade celebrates a particular group of people. These people celebrate who they are and why they are proud of who they are.
If you are jealous that straight people do not have a parade to celebrate being straight, start one.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
------------------------------
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
posted on June 17, 2004 08:48:46 AM newThese people celebrate who they are and why they are proud of who they are.
And from what I've read these gay parades do more to turn straight people against the gay cause tha they may realize. Tapes are made and used to show the outrageousness of the gay lifestyle.
Go back and re-read my reply to cherishedclutter. Your comments are exactly why I state that I am not gay - so that people like yourself don't think I only support gay issues because I am gay. I have been in gay bars where I do not announce I am hetero. Although, I have had to state so when asked for a date by another woman. They are perfectly civil about it and quite understanding. Contrary to what you probably believe.
Gay bashing is just another form of bigotry, IMO. And, there's no room in our society for bigotry anymore.
posted on June 17, 2004 08:57:31 AM new
Linda: And from what I've read these gay parades do more to turn straight people against the gay cause tha they may realize. Tapes are made and used to show the outrageousness of the gay lifestyle.
I would have to agree with your statement because what is shown on the local news that day is bits and pieces (usually about a minutes worth) of a two hour event. What is shown on the local news is usally the drag queens in their flamboyant costumes or the leathermen in chaps. While these are part of the gay community, it does not represent the entire community. What isn't shown on the TV is the politicians or the local businesses (gay and straight) out to support the gay community, what isn't shown is all the other groups that make up and support the gay community and help support the larger community.
If you really want to what happens at a gay pride parade, go and see one. I will guarantee that the entire parade is not representative of the small bit of information that is shown on your local TV news. I am sure Cheryl could back up this statement.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
------------------------------
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
[ edited by logansdad on Jun 17, 2004 09:00 AM ]
posted on June 17, 2004 12:01:55 PM new
Linda:logansdad - Good....glad to hear you recognize that fact.
Yes, I do recognize the fact. However I do also want to state that it is because of the way these pride parades are portrayed on local news stations is how the straight community develops the stereotypes of gay people. This type of portrayal only fuels the hatred of those ignorant people who already view homosexuality in a negative way.
If one would really look at the entire pride parade you will see that is no different than what goes on in most parades -- people marching, celebrating, floats.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
------------------------------
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
I can back you up! The parades and festival are wonderful events. People of all ages, races and lifestyles attend. Unfortunately, as is the case with all events, the media takes the seedier side and exploits it. It's the same with straight events and it's become expected of the media. BTW, straight men also dress in drag, but that doesn't get much publicity.
posted on June 17, 2004 01:37:47 PM new
logansdad -
it is because of the way these pride parades are portrayed on local news stations is how the straight community develops the stereotypes of gay people. This type of portrayal only fuels the hatred of those ignorant people who already view homosexuality in a negative way.
The way they're portrayed....is what IS happening at those parades. Can't blame the media for the actions the gays/etc are doing while parading. They're just reporting the events.
And yes, it does fuel anti-gay sentiments....which is exactly what I was saying in my post. It does more harm to the cause than it benefits anyone. It strenghtens the opinions of all those who think the behavior is perverse. People not familiar with gays will be using the actions they see to form their opinions/judgements about whether they would even considering supporting something so vial.
And, please remember, I've said I'd feel the same way if anyone was acting so outrageously in public.
posted on June 17, 2004 01:51:40 PM new
Linda: The way they're portrayed....is what IS happening at those parades. Can't blame the media for the actions the gays/etc are doing while parading. They're just reporting the events.
I expected that comment from you Linda and you failed to understand what I said.
If a bunch of people are drinking and getting drunk at a St. Patrick's day parade, would it be wise for the media to show that particle part of the parade so the people who did not attend the parade can say every Irishman is a drunk. No, that would not happen.
Just because women flash their breasts at Mardi Gras does that mean you go around flashing your breasts for beads every chance you get? After all that is how Mardi Gras is being reported....
If you would have read my post you would have noticed I said there are "wild events" that occur at a gay pride parade - similar to what goes on at Mardi Gras - these events do not represent the entire parade. The media can show whatever portion of the parade, but 9 times out of 10 you will see, the most outrageous events from the parade. The reason for this is because this will evoke the most response from people. This is not "just reporting the events" in my opinion. This is selectively taking footage that will boost ratings just like all reality TV shows do.
Linda, do they hold a gay pride parade where you live? If they do go to it and you can make your own judgement of what actually takes place. I bet you will see that it is totally different from what is just being reported on the news.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
------------------------------
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
[ edited by logansdad on Jun 17, 2004 05:02 PM ]
