posted on July 11, 2004 10:13:31 AM new
Which was worse, the Nazi attack or the French allowing it to happen?
Gang Attacks Mother on French Train
By ELAINE GANLEY
Associated Press Writer
PARIS (AP) -- A gang of young men attacked a woman riding a suburban train with her infant, cutting her hair and drawing swastikas on her stomach. Other passengers watched but did nothing, police reported.
French politicians issued denunciations Sunday as news of the Friday morning attack spread through the nation.
Police said the gang of six set upon the 23-year-old woman on a suburban train north of Paris and grabbed her backpack where they found identity papers that showed an address in the capital's well-to-do 16th district. "There are only Jews in the 16th," one of the group of attackers said.
The young woman, who was not identified, was not Jewish and no longer lived in the district, police said.
The gang then pushed her and cut her hair "to keep a souvenir," police said. The attackers opened her shirt, reportedly with a knife, before drawing swastikas on her stomach with a marking pen. The 13-month-old infant fell from its stroller in the melee. Neither the mother nor infant was seriously hurt, police said.
Police described the gang as ages 15 to 20 and said some appeared to be of Muslim North African origin.
The attack occurred a day after President Jacques Chirac denounced mounting racial intolerance in France, calling for drastic change "at the risk of indifference and passivity."
According to the police account, none of the passengers on the train came to the woman's rescue.
Chirac denounced Friday's "shameful act" and Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin ordered police to find the culprits "as quickly as possible."
Roger Cukierman, president of the Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France, said that, in the face of rising anti-Semitism, government decisions are no longer sufficient.
"Each one of us must truly feel threatened by this phenomenon," Cukierman said on France-Info radio. "This is not a problem of Jews but of France."
On Thursday, a day before the attack, Chirac traveled to Le Chambon-sur-Lignon, a small town that sheltered some 5,000 Jews from Nazi occupiers during World War II.
"I ask (the French) to remind their children of the mortal danger of fanaticism, of exclusion, of cowardliness and resignation to extremism," he said.
Anti-Semitic acts have been on the rise in France over the past few years, but recently have spiked, with 135 registered in the first half of this year - more than the total reports last year. The rise in anti-Semitic acts has been accompanied by racist acts against Muslims.
posted on July 11, 2004 10:18:07 AM new
Terrible story, but you were not in the train when it happened, so you shouldn't be judging the circumstances. Keep in mind that 4 planes in America were hi-jacked to be used as missiles, and on 3 of the 4 planes nobody did anything. In all instances, it was tragic and I am sure horrific for all involved. To mock the French as a group for this is the mark of a bigot.
posted on July 11, 2004 10:26:37 AM new
I don't see it as "mocking the French"--merely stating an event.
We've had similar events here in the US, where bystanders see an attack or crime occuring, and don't do anything, even while the person being hurt was screaming for help.
In cases like this, I hold the onlookers just as culpable as the attackers.
edited because "occur" begins with an "o"...
____________________
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[ edited by bunnicula on Jul 11, 2004 10:27 AM ]
posted on July 11, 2004 10:31:52 AM new
I guess it depends on HOW MANY other passengers there were. Six Nazi kids against three old people on the train isn't a good thing. If it was a rush hour crowd, then there's something to talk about.
We don't have enough info to judge the other passengers.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on July 11, 2004 10:35:26 AM new
Even more tragic are all of the innocent people killed in Iraq thanks to the Bush Administration's selling out of America. This also doesn't include the innocent American soldiers who died so that Halliburton could overcharge the American taxpayer for their inflated contracts.
posted on July 11, 2004 10:35:38 AM new
During the 1960s, when there was no shortage of drama in the nation’s courtrooms, one murder case stood alone in its ability to shock the country. The crime was not as gruesome as some others, since many more were just as violent, and still more that easily surpassed it. The victim was an ordinary working girl, not at all wealthy and not a member of any elite class. Her name was Catherine Genovese, the 28-year-old daughter of Italian-American parents. But to millions of people who read her story when it first appeared in New York City’s press, she would forever be remembered as “Kitty” Genovese. What happened to her, what happened to all of society on that dreadful night in the spring of 1964, would reverberate across the country and generate a national soul-searching that is reserved for only the most catastrophic of events. And nearly 40 years later, her name has become synonymous with a dark side of an urban character that, for many people, represents a harsh and disturbing reality of big city life.
posted on July 11, 2004 10:40:43 AM newWe don't have enough info to judge the other passengers.
I don't agree. My little old grandma, God rest her soul, would not have allowed that to happen even if she was the only other passenger. I'd rather have my cold dead body carried off the train than to sit there and do nothing.
"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
posted on July 11, 2004 10:51:42 AM new
Some time ago I came upon a man (actually in his teens) assaulting a woman on the UC Campus of Berkeley. There were a number of other people witnessing the event but doing nothing. I was in my car so I parked and got out with my Louisville Slugger and took care of the matter.
Rather than any thanks the crowd turned on me but fortunately a friend also saw what was going on and was armed with a handgun and dispersed the crowd.
We both left before any police arrived if they ever did.
posted on July 11, 2004 10:52:46 AM new
The story is clearly slanted and based on the animosity that some here feel toward France for not supporting Bush's war, I would bet my life that this story was not posted as just a crime report but rather as a derogatory piece against the French.
posted on July 11, 2004 11:02:02 AM new
Helen: Actually I think many of us held animosity and contempt for the French long before we'd ever heard of Bush or the Iraq war.
EAG: "I'd rather have my cold dead body carried off the train than to sit there and do nothing."
Spoken like a true youngster. MANY old people seem to live their lives in fear of one thing or another.
It's a naturally occuring side effect of being less and less able to take care of one'sself and the old person is fully aware they are weaker than they used to be.
Davebraun: "Rather than any thanks the crowd turned on me"
That's a story I'd like to hear more about.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on July 11, 2004 11:08:51 AM new
As bad as this is I just can not agree to label them nazis. Punks, scumbags, common criminals, trash,dregs, garbage.
Now that label would fit them well.
It is sad that in todays world where no one wants to get involved for whatever reason.This is not a "french" thing at all, its a world problem as one can find examples of these kind of story's just about everyday.
posted on July 11, 2004 11:19:29 AM new
The question you have to ask is did they not help her because they were afraid or did they not help her because she was a Jew? Kind of reminds you of what happened over there only 65 years ago.
Dave, your ok (for a liberal).
"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
posted on July 11, 2004 03:09:40 PM new
In connection with the other thread where Libra asked what a neocon is....
A neocon will try anyway they can to promote hate.
They will spread a story about how the French didn't help a woman on a train, trying desperately to make the French look bad when sh!t like this happens all the time all over the world.
Then in a great stretch the Op contends that since this woman was Jewish the French hate the Jews....what garbage and this IS JUST what the Nazi's did ...turned people against each other with hate campaigns.
Then others chime in with brain dead stupid comments like "France is a cesspool".
And the neocons have started the circle of hate.
The poster's aim is make us hate an entire nation! Please apply a little logic ...do you REALLY think this has never happened in any other country?
What possible reason would a person have for hating an entire country based on one small incident....that's just plain old-fashioned stupid and in my opinion just evil for evil's sake.
Doubts are growing about a reported anti-Semitic attack on a woman and her baby that stunned France.
Police have found no evidence or witnesses, four days after the alleged assault took place on a train in the suburbs of Paris.
The 23-year-old woman said six men cut her clothes and drew swastikas on her body, accusing her of being Jewish.
It sparked widespread condemnation amid concern that racist and anti-Semitic attacks are on the rise in France.
Police are advising caution as their investigations continue, noting that there are some contradictions in the woman's account.
The woman said she was attacked on a suburban train on Friday. The gang, who mistook her for a Jew, cut her hair, slashed her clothes and daubed her body with swastikas, she said.
Video studied
The men, described as of North African appearance, are also said to have tipped her 13-month-old baby from her pram. According to the woman, about 20 people could have seen the attack but so far no-one has come forward.
Investigators have also been studying footage from surveillance cameras at the train station where the six alleged attackers were supposed to have got out but have found nothing.
French media report that the young woman has filed several complaints in the past about being the victim of violence.
The reported brutality of the attack on the woman, its anti-Semitic character and the fact that no-one came to her help provoked outrage.
It also added to growing concern over racist and anti-Semitic attacks.
President Jacques Chirac, who condemned the assault as "shameful", said he would deny clemency to any prisoner serving time for a racist crime.
Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin said: "Anti-Semitism is a disgrace. We want to fight this kind of intolerable racism."
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on July 13, 2004 07:30:09 AM new http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/wipe.wav
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Beware the man of one book.
- Thomas Aquinas
[ edited by profe51 on Jul 13, 2004 07:30 AM ]
