kraftdinner
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posted on July 12, 2004 10:54:58 AM new
Maybe some of you missed it, but Hillbillymo asked a great question in another thread. He asked if gays chose to be gay at some point, how do you explain homosexuality in other animals, fish, etc.? Any ideas ChristianCoffee, EAG, Twelve??
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parklane64
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posted on July 12, 2004 01:44:00 PM new
Animals have no concept of morality. If it feels good, they do it. There is no thought of right or wrong, appropriate or inappropriate. Should we redefine marriage to the point that we are no better than animals? Animals have no concept of sin either.
To a certain extent I sinfully enjoy 'if it feels good do it'. This does not mean we should alter the paradigm created by human experience from one of moral thinking to one of hedonism.
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You know...the best way to defeat a liberal is to let them speak.
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logansdad
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posted on July 12, 2004 01:47:17 PM new
I would like answer (from someone other than twelve) on this as well.
If people choose to be gay, then do you agree straight people face the same choices as gay people but choose to remain straight?
If you do not agree to the above then why?
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
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All Things Just Keep Getting Better
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We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
[ edited by logansdad on Jul 12, 2004 05:32 PM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 12, 2004 01:57:12 PM new
Are you saying animals are sinners because they have no concept of morality, Parklane?
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hillbillymo
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posted on July 12, 2004 02:29:47 PM new
If the "it feels good, they do it" claim is plausible, male dogs would be raping female dogs with great frequency.
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neroter12
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posted on July 12, 2004 03:00:52 PM new
I watched a show where they theorized that animals do it (express homosexuality) for gain in social dominance of the pack they are in. That could be one reason.
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maggiemuggins
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posted on July 12, 2004 03:22:45 PM new
Nero.. you may have something there...
Expressing homosexuality for gain of social dominance of the pack.. so along those lines.. that must mean that every time a heterosexual person, flips the bird to someone else.. he/she is symbolically expressing a homosexual act to gain dominance..
So all the straight guys out there think twice before flipping another guy off.. you are sending a homosexual message.. live and learn.. Maggie
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neroter12
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posted on July 12, 2004 03:25:58 PM new
Maggie, it applied to animals - not humans.
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maggiemuggins
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posted on July 12, 2004 03:36:08 PM new
Nero.. yes, I understand..
but it struck me how straight men always say fyou to other straight men by flipping them the bird.. so like dumb animals, they are essentially symbolizing the homosexual act.. to gain dominance.. right?
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neroter12
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posted on July 12, 2004 03:56:59 PM new
lol Maggie! Never thought of it that way.
In my mind, flipping the bird is a challange to/or some vague promise of future hostility. (But I also dont think men take each other as seriously as women do. It has always seemed to me they get over petty insults very quickly, which always kind of amazed me.)
But what of the claim its done - the homosexual thing - to straight men in prisions for the domination aspect of it??
I dont know. I do know the program I watched was done after years of studying by these animal people or scientist's if you'd like. (I dont know what they call themselves these days.) But as much as they find similarities between animals and humans, there remains some outstanding differences, imo.
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logansdad
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posted on July 12, 2004 05:37:38 PM new
Neroter: In my mind, flipping the bird is a challange to/or some vague promise of future hostility.
All these years I thought giving someone the finger was a way of beefing up foreign relations after all that was what told in "Top Gun".
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
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NearTheSea
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posted on July 12, 2004 05:46:16 PM new
which animal, fish or bird exhibits homosexuality? (besides the human animal I mean)
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I'm NearTheSea, and I approve this post
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logansdad
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posted on July 12, 2004 05:50:31 PM new
A dog for one. Ever see a dog lick another dog's unit or sniff another's dog butt. Some male dogs like to lick their own unit.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
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neroter12
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posted on July 12, 2004 05:53:37 PM new
lol logan!!
NTS, if I remember the program (ask me why I was watching a nature program? Nutten else of interest on!)- there was a segment on apes that do it, and I also think some of the cat family was shown in the pack doing it doing it doing it.
jhahaha
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replaymedia
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posted on July 12, 2004 06:45:00 PM new
I can't believe you guys are actually debating this when Parkland gave the correct answer in the first response.
They do it cause it feels good. The same reason they like to roll around in poop. It feels good.
Kraftdinner: They don't have morality. It's not a sin for animals, since they have no self-knowledge.
Hillybilly: Male dogs "rape" female dogs all the time. They'll also "rape" your leg if they feel like it. You can train them not to attack your leg, but again, that's learning, not instinct. The instict is to do what feels good.
There is no animal that I am aware of that will make a long-term "relationship" with a same-sex partner. Again, it's whatever feels good at the time. I could be wrong on this point, but I don't ever remember hearing of that.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
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hillbillymo
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posted on July 12, 2004 07:16:51 PM new
Replay,
As far as I know no animal(other than humans) engages in sexual activity for pleasure only. A #*!@ dog will not allow a male dog to mount unless she is in estrus. From that statement one can conclude they don't engage in male/female sex for pleasure. Again the "feel good" claim doesn't fly!
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stopwhining
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posted on July 12, 2004 08:29:52 PM new
the male baboons do exhibit the I AM BIGGER THAN YOU ARE syndrome by mounting the lesser one and the lesser one is willing to be mounted.
whether they actually engage in sexual intercourse,i dont know,we will have to ask margaret mead.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 12, 2004 08:32:09 PM new
So basically homosexuals are no better than animals... we don't let animals get married...
This is a myth... where some animals may be homosexual, there are other animals that kill those that act homosexual...
Dolphins do have sex for fun... only other species other than man..
Name some animals that allow homosexuality...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 12, 2004 08:43:47 PM new
Paul L. Vasey, of the University of Lethbridge in Canada, nevertheless cautions:
For some people, what animals do is a yardstick of what is and isn't natural. They make a leap from saying if it's natural, it's morally and ethically desirable. Infanticide is widespread in the animal kingdom. To jump from that to say it is desirable makes no sense. We shouldn't be using animals to craft moral and social policies for the kinds of human societies we want to live in. Animals don't take care of the elderly. I don't particularly think that should be a platform for closing down nursing homes.
Dr. Antonio Pardo, Professor of Bioethics at the University of Navarre, Spain, explains:
Properly speaking, homosexuality does not exist among animals.... For reasons of survival, the reproductive instinct among animals is always directed towards an individual of the opposite sex. Therefore, an animal can never be homosexual as such. Nevertheless, the interaction of other instincts (particularly dominance) can result in behavior that appears to be homosexual. Such behavior cannot be equated with an animal homosexuality. All it means is that animal sexual behavior encompasses aspects beyond that of reproduction
Animal myth... BUSTED...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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yellowstone
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posted on July 12, 2004 08:53:21 PM new
Binobo chimpanzees are one animal that I know for sure engages in homosexual acts. I've seen films on tv that show this, they even masterbate. Don't beleive me, google it.
Replaymedia
Dogs don't roll around in poop because it feels good. They do it because it is instinkual.
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yellowstone
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posted on July 12, 2004 09:00:06 PM new
They don't actually say on the nature shows if the binobo's are doing it by choice or not but I beleive that they do imply that it is by choice because they don't engage in this activity with just any other in their group, they have their fav's among the same sex.
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 12, 2004 09:03:41 PM new
One person writes what they believe and that's proof? Get real Twelve. Here are hundreds of counter-claims that homosexuality in animals DOES exist, so who's right?
http://www.google.ca/search?q=%22homosexual+animals%22&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
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yellowstone
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posted on July 12, 2004 09:09:01 PM new
But Kraft, is it by choice or is it instinctual??
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 12, 2004 09:20:14 PM new
Good question Yellowstone. For an animal to make a choice (a conscience decision) about something so basic, is difficult for me to fathom. If it's instinct, then is instinct a learned set of behaviours or part of the animals brain make-up?
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 12, 2004 10:07:36 PM new
Ah kraft, it is you who have not read... my post did not say it did not exist... it did say that it was not natural and it was not homosexual the way that human percieve homosexuality... So lognasdad's partner mounts him to be dominant? Is that what your saying kraft?
Animals do not allow true homosexuality, only preceptions as such... either that or your claiming homosexuality is nothing more than lower form of animals acting out... if homosexuals are a lower form of animal... then they really derserve no equal treatment... animals are not human equals... inferior...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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logansdad
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posted on July 13, 2004 06:10:18 AM new
Animals do not allow true homosexuality, only preceptions as such... either that or your claiming homosexuality is nothing more than lower form of animals acting out... if homosexuals are a lower form of animal... then they really derserve no equal treatment... animals are not human equals... inferior...
I guess Twelve has been getting his information from "Wild Kingdom". Now he is an expert on sex in the animal kingdom as well.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 13, 2004 06:42:15 AM new
logansdad unlike you, I get my information from different sources...
I also noticed you can't refute it, because it is part of the homosexual myth...
Must make you really sad that I have shown time and again that your chosen lifestyle is unacceptable to most good people.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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